Template talk:Element-symbol-to-oxidation-state-data

Duplicate citation

Hey Johnjbarton! While looking into the undefined references, I noticed that this edit introduces a two definitions for a citation named "Hoffman-2006". But they're slightly different:

One looks like this:

{{cite book| title=The Chemistry of the Actinide and Transactinide Elements| editor1-last=Morss| editor2-first=Norman M.| editor2-last=Edelstein| editor3-last=Fuger| editor3-first=Jean| last1=Hoffman| first1=Darleane C.| last2=Lee| first2=Diana M.| last3=Pershina| first3=Valeria| chapter=Transactinides and the future elements| publisher=[[Springer Science+Business Media]]| year=2006| isbn=978-1-4020-3555-5| location=Dordrecht, The Netherlands| edition=3rd| ref=CITEREFHoffman-20062006}}

And the other is here:

{{cite book| title=The Chemistry of the Actinide and Transactinide Elements| editor1-last=Morss| editor2-first=Norman M.| editor2-last=Edelstein| editor3-last=Fuger| editor3-first=Jean| last1=Hoffman| first1=Darleane C.| last2=Lee| first2=Diana M.| last3=Pershina| first3=Valeria| chapter=Transactinides and the future elements| publisher=[[Springer Science+Business Media]]| year=2006| isbn=978-1-4020-3555-5| location=Dordrecht, The Netherlands| edition=3rd| ref=CITEREFHaire2006}}

This results in a duplicate reference definition error. Maybe these definitions are meeant to be mutually exclusive, but the error appears even in the example invocation of the template through the documentation page. (Sorry; I'm sure you think I'm harshing your deal, but I'm just trying to get these errors fixed because they effect many articles.) -- mikeblas (talk) 02:08, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Haire thing confuses me. I'll change them all to Hoffman-2006. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:27, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Oh. Maybe Haire is not Hoffman-2006. Rutherfordium has two Hoffman sources from 2006 which look similar but are not. Ok I better stop tonight. Let's try to figure out if these are different. Johnjbarton (talk) 02:41, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

This is "Haire" from Template:Infobox element/symbol-to-oxidation-state, the old date for Infobox element. It has no "Hoffman-2006".

Hoffman, Darleane C.; Lee, Diana M.; Pershina, Valeria (2006). "Transactinides and the future elements". In Morss; Edelstein, Norman M.; Fuger, Jean (eds.). The Chemistry of the Actinide and Transactinide Elements (3rd ed.). Dordrecht, The Netherlands: Springer Science+Business Media. ISBN 978-1-4020-3555-5.

It also has a second unnamed ref:

Hoffman, Darleane C.; Lee, Diana M.; Pershina, Valeria (2006). "Transactinides and the future elements". In Morss; Edelstein, Norman M.; Fuger, Jean (eds.). The Chemistry of the Actinide and Transactinide Elements (3rd ed.). Dordrecht, The Netherlands: Springer Science+Business Media. p. 1691. ISBN 978-1-4020-3555-5.

The old data for the List of oxidation states has no Hoffman or Haire.

I reverted the change you mentioned above. Rf is fixed. Johnjbarton (talk) 03:12, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I reverted the edit you pointed out, thanks. I checked elements 103-118 and the only ref error I is in Hs, see that Talk page.

I need to do some follow up work but please let me know if you see other problems. This issue should be limited to the ones with "predicted" oxidation states as they had refs in only one of the two previous oxidation state data bases. The other elements had been made manually consistent between the two sets of data AFAICT. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:35, 26 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

New section of doc: How to add references

I added a detailed step by step on how I think refs should be added. @mikeblas please review. Johnjbarton (talk) 01:52, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Missing last comma

@Nucleus hydro elemon changed the template to remove the last comma from the entries. Unfortunately that causes errors in the references for Oxidation_state#List_of_oxidation_states_of_the_elements, which is why I had the trailing commas in the file. In my opinion the trailing comma in the info box is the lesser of these two problems.

I think it may be easier to use string processing to remove the trailing comma from the elements pages than it is to remove the trailing oxidation state from the references in the List (I tried that already). I have not had time to try yet. Johnjbarton (talk) 15:41, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've been trying to come up with a way to change {{List of oxidation states of the elements/row}} to fix Oxidation state without the trailing commas but I'm not succeeding. I can't find a way to match say "+4," followed by a ref, a space, and the "next oxidation state" because the "next oxidation state" is just a number which could occur in the ref text.

If we had some special marker to delineate the states, eg "+4 its ref $ +6 its ref $ +8 its ref" then processing the data might be easier. But I don't know of any marker that could also not be in ref text.

If we disallow reference definition then we could also disallow some character like "$" in the names of refs and use $ as the delimiter. Johnjbarton (talk) 18:13, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Ok I made some changes to fix Oxidation state so the comma removal is fine. However the documentation still needs to be updated. Johnjbarton (talk) 23:45, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Distinguish predicted from notable oxidation states

In its current format, common oxidation states of elements are bolded but there is no distinction between predicted and notable states. This becomes important because predicted states have appeared for some superheavy elements (and may also apply to others, such as computations suggesting the possibility of Li(0) dimeric species). Might we put predicted states in parentheses in the template? Olthe3rd1 (talk) 00:30, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I'll give the same kind of reply I usually do: the purpose of the concept of oxidation states is to enable fast, simple chemical analysis. The superheavy elements only have predicted states because they have no chemistry that needs prediction. I do think the predicted state may be notable in the article rather than in the very limited context of the infobox.

I encourage you to get other opinions on WT:Elements. Johnjbarton (talk) 01:10, 24 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Is sodium(0) really known?

The reference claims that this exists as the middle layer of sodium atoms in high-pressure Na₃Cl, but this is not claimed by the authors and the bonding may be described in terms of otherwie known oxidation states (the Na-Cl bonds induce polarity to the adjacent Na-Na bonds so that the outer sodium layers would have oxidation state +1 !nd the middle layer -1). Olthe3rd1 (talk) 22:50, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that this claim is dubious. The source is not about the oxidation state of Na and is not a good reference. I suggest you remove it. Johnjbarton (talk) 23:32, 28 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Done. Olthe3rd1 (talk) 00:02, 29 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Better reference for Ca(I)

I inserted a better reference for Ca(I). The previuos one referred only indirectly to the Ca(I) compound, the one we have now is the orogonal documentation of this compound. Olthe3rd1 (talk) 14:02, 15 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]