Talk:Shetland dialect

Grammatical gender

The section about grammatical gender gives no real information at the moment.

How does this grammatical gender manifest itself? Does the declension of nouns depend on gender? (Is there any declension at all?) Does the definite/indefinite article used with nouns depend on gender?

Also, the fragment "Some nouns which are clearly considered neuter in English" is simply nonsense. English does not have grammatical gender (apart from the distinction between he/she/it), so it does not make sense to say that an English noun is neuter. It is not neuter: it simply doesn't possess the grammatical property of gender. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.177.39.34 (talk) 11:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

I think it basically means that nouns are referred to as "he" and "she", not much more than that these days.

"English does not have grammatical gender"

No, but it retains some feminine suffixes, and also some things, such as ships can be referred to as "she".--MacRusgail (talk) 16:56, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

MacRusgail, could you please make this clear in the article? This is quite different from the grammatical gender of other Germanic or Latin languages. I know that neither Norwegian, nor Romanian (two Indo-European languages with grammatical gender) refer to objects with the equivalent of he or she, but in both languages the definite/indefinite articles and adjectives must be matched against the gender of the noun. (Well, to be precise, Norwegian has two equivalents of the English it: a neuter and a common gender one.)

So could you please clear up that section? Since you are Scottish, and probably heard Shetlandic being spoken, you are much better qualified to make that edit than me.

Also, could you please give some examples and clarify what you mean by saying that English retains some feminine suffixes? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.177.44.73 (talk) 11:32, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

I've heard it, but I wouldn't like to make too much comment on its grammar, without trying to read up on it, or ask a speaker.--MacRusgail (talk) 14:06, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

shetland

The words listed in Shetland as an exaple is the same as in Norway & Sweeden . I can point to : du,dine,dere,etc.du er,du har,dere har,vi har,nes(peninsula),Skegnes,langnes,(long peninsula).snefjell(snefell). there could more of the same.(jeg)i must wisit the islans in not to distant futhere. i am born Norwegian and speek .No. Sw.Dk. in the No. Scool to learn som Old Norwegian is comulsery. Old Norwegian is no longer spoken in Norway,but it is in daily use in Island. Jan Olav Jan larssen (talk) 21:57, 13 January 2009 (UTC)Jan larssen (talk) 22:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Article title

The recent move to Shetlandic dialect is not satisfactory. It certainly begs the question "dialect of what". -- Evertype·✆ 10:59, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

I think it is more accurate than its previous title as a "language", and it seems consistent with entries in categories for e.g Japanese, Korean and Swedish dialects. Arguably it could be Shetlandic Scots - although that might make it sound as if it was about people, or Shetlandic Insular Scots, which is a bit of a mouthful and does not seem to be mentioned in the quoted sources. At least one of them offers Shetland Dialect. I'm not sure what you are suggesting - the relationship to Scots is pretty clear from the lead. Ben MacDui 13:07, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Fortunately, Wikipedia is solidly founded on an official policy called WP:VERIFY. There (ie. out there in the real world) the Institute of Linguists (Great Britain) in 1981 were saying "Jakobsen was of great importance to another West Norse language, Shetlandese, ie the extinct Shetlandic language." So, "Shetlandic language" = Norn, according to the linguist bods. That is definitely not what this article is about!

Meanwhile, the The Edinburgh History of Scottish Literature, Scottish literary journal, Johns Hopkins University's Modern language notes and others talk of the "Shetlandic dialect" as a dialect of the Scots language, which is what this article is about. Cin cin. --Mais oui! (talk) 15:00, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Let's not get unduly attached to "verification" in this instance because the entity in question has many names, distributed over many years, all of which are criticized by some and none of which are preferred by everyone. 1981 was a good while back, to respond to what the Institute of Linguists were saying. Native speakers call it Shetland (or Shaetlan); some dislike the adjective Shetlandic for various reasons, though it is well-formed in Standard English. I have recently wrestled with this question in the Real World, because Im about to publish a 27,000-word novel written in this variety of speech, and we have had to decide what to call it in English. After some discussion we ended up with Shetland Scots which is also well-formed in Standard English (cf New Zealand English, Highland English, Newfoundland English). I have found (and added to the article) a 2009 reference which uses this term; the term is similar in structure to Ulster Scots; it is unambiguous as to its being a dialect of Scots rather than English, and it satisfies the native-speaker preference for Shetland over Shetlandic. In this matter I do not believe that we can settle this by "verifying" quantitatively, as tastes have and are changing. But if the choice is between Shetlandic language or Shetlandic dialect I must favour the former, since the latter is ambiguous. Can we agree on Shetland Scots for this article? (I hope so. I so hate article-name battles.) -- Evertype·✆ 21:17, 15 September 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Evertype, I meant to get back to you then clean forgot about it! ;) Just to say that I have no problem with "Shetland Scots", so long as it is supported by reliable ext refs, out there in the big real world. My main objection to "Shetlandic language" is that it is obviously ambiguous, and obviously extremely rarely used in the literature. The only good example of it is clearly a reference to Norn, not the Scots dialect. So, in summary, your page move looks fine to me.--Mais oui! (talk) 15:24, 20 September 2012 (UTC)

Use of the ingressive pulmonic?

(Note: cross-posted at Talk:Norn language) Please see:

• Pulmonic ingressive speech in the Shetland Isles: Some observations on a potential Nordic relic feature

Mais oui! (talk) 03:34, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

Examples and references

In the section dealing with orthography there were examples having nothing to do with the orthography being described (in the section on j vs. y and k vs. c there was an example showing how "good", "guid" in scots, is rendered "gjuid" in Shetlandic) and which were "supported" by bare URL references that neither gave evidence of the example in question nor showed the exact reference from which the rule or example derived. I have now removed these as best I could, but the article definitely needs actual references and actual examples that correspond to the actual dialectical orthography and it needs to have this information conveyed in a consistent and well-explained manner that shows the transitions from English letter usage onto Scots and then onto the Shetlandic dialect. And it needs references that connect to either real, published rules for these orthographic changes or that connect to specific examples of them, properly formatted according to templates like "cite book" or "cite journal" or even "cite web", that a reader can track down if they so wish. I am unhappy with the section as it now stands; I was even more unhappy with it as it stood before. A loose necktie (talk) 05:36, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 18 February 2020

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) —Nnadigoodluck🇳🇬 18:13, 25 February 2020 (UTC)

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Shetland Scots → Shetland dialect – The name of this article was last discussed in 2012, and the consensus reached was Shetland Scots, a name that, while used by some linguists, is totally unfamiliar to the vast majority of native Shetlanders. I'd like to quote from [this paper], by linguist Viveka Velupillai (which, for full disclosure, I was personally involved with) that, from this Shetlander's perspective, gets the terminology and reasoning behind it exactly right:

The traditional variety spoken on the Shetland Islands has been referred to by different names. The term "Insular Scots" is sometimes used by scholars to indicate the affinities between the varieties spoken on Shetland and on Orkney (see e.g. Johnston 1997; Millar 2007, 2018). The speakers themselves, however, refer to their language as either "Shetland dialect", "Shetland" or "Shetlandic". The latter is controversial and seems to be disliked by most speakers, who tend to prefer the term "Shetland". In this article, I will use the neutral, and by the speakers themselves accepted, term "Shetland dialect" to differentiate between the language and the place.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment - that the terminology of a handful of linguists should not override the terminology of the thousands speakers of the dialect.

While it appears that more folk to tend to search for terms like "Shetland Scots" and "Shetlandic" here on Wikipedia, I suspect that most of these searches come from those who are generally unaware of the terminology used here, and therefore search statistics should not be taken as gospel for what is most commonly used to refer to it. In person here in Shetland, I have never heard it naturally called Shetland Scots.

A point brought up against a name similar to this previously was that it doesn't address the question, "dialect of what?" In my mind this is not terribly relevant - there is only one Shetland dialect, which is a dialect of Scots, and that will become immediately clear upon reading the first sentence of the article. The only possible point of confusion is the Norn language, which was its own language and has its own name (mostly) sorted out (and there's a "Not to be confused with" link at the top of the article already). There aren't specific dialects of Scottish Gaelic, Norwegian or anything else like that attributed to Shetland. See other articles such as Suzhou dialect - it's not "Suzhou dialect of Chinese", that's not necessary.

The only other criticism I can think of for this name is that very occasionally, some folk in Shetland like to point out that using the term "Shetland dialect" over just "Shetland" implies that it is somehow a lesser variety of speech - while "Shetland" could be considered a language, "dialect" is taken as an insult. While I understand this reasoning, I think it would be needlessly confusing (as said the previous paper quoted) to have both the place and the variety of speech using the same name in this article.

WP:DIALECT advises that "The term dialect should only be used for distinct but mutually intelligible varieties of a language". This is an accurate assessment of Shetland's variety of speech - it is mostly understandable by Orcadians and to a lesser degree Scots speakers on the Mainland.

The proposed title is recognisable, natural, precise enough, concise enough, and most importantly respects the name used by native speakers - which the current name does not. Griceylipper (talk) 00:30, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support, per this ngram. Colin Gerhard (talk) 14:24, 18 February 2020 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Insular vocabulary from Norn

An IP is inserting information into the lead WP:UNDUE regarding the amount of vocabulary in insular dialect. There may be something to say about that but not in the lead. Also the sources do not back up the statement being made. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 18:52, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

The sources do back up everything I entered. You clearly did not read them. I only expanded upon and clarified what was already in the introductory paragraphs as per what the sources specifically say. 69.156.38.113 (talk) 00:17, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

"The modern Shetland dialect shares much with other branches of Scots, though the legacy of Norwegian is obvious still in place-names, vocabulary, expressions and pronunciation." [1]

"Norn is thought to have become extinct in 1850 (i.e. the 19th century), after the death of Walter Sutherland, the language's last known speaker, though there are claims the language persisted as late as the 20th century."

What I entered: "A significant amount of Norse influence in vocabulary, expressions and pronunciation has also been retained from the Norn language, which is an extinct North Germanic language spoken on the islands until the early 19th century."

Barnes, Michael (1984) Orkney and Shetland Norn. Language in the British Isles. Ed. Peter Trudgill. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press. p.29 states that a paper by Gunnel Melchers "lists the following areas of vocabulary as being particularly rich in Norn words: types of wind and weather; flowers and plants; animals; seasons and holidays; food; tools; materials and colours; movement; whims, ludicrous behaviour, unbalanced states of mind, qualities." 69.156.38.113 (talk) 00:18, 11 September 2022 (UTC) 69.156.38.113 (talk) 00:20, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

What I entered: "Consequently Shetland dialect contains many words of Norn origin. Many of them, if they are not place-names, refer to seasons, weather, plants, animals, places, food, materials, movement, behaviour, feelings, tools, colours and parts of boats."

Either modify it or keep in place, but stop removing cited material. 69.156.38.113 (talk) 00:45, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

There is little point discussing with you as we both know you will keep reinserting your edits without getting any kind of consensus. What I would ask you to reflect on, however, is that the source does not say "a significant amount..." and does not even imply it. Neither is "significant" defined, neither does it say anything about being North Germanic. And although it is undoubtedly true that Norn is North Germanic, it is WP:UNDUE in the lead and unsourced here. I also reiterate my point that adding 3 more references into the lead, for information that cannot even be found in the main body is WP:OVERCITE, a misunderstanding of th epurpose of the lead (it is a summary, and does not contain informatio not in the main body) and it is very messy. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 10:01, 11 September 2022 (UTC)

References

Requested move 16 October 2025

Shetland dialect → ShaetlanShaetlan – As of yesterday, Shaetlan has received an ISO 639:3 code (scz) with the name spelled Shaetlan, which is the autonym of the language. "Shetland Dialect" is now inappropriate for the title of this article when it is considered a language in its own right. The term "Shetland Dialect", while widely used locally, is an exonym, and is now inaccurate.

The reason for the spelling "Shaetlan" over "Shetland" is two three-fold - 1) it accurately portrays a large portion of speakers' tendency to pronounce the word with a voiceless /d/, 2) the <ae> reflects the intuitive community spelling convention of primary stress short intercononantal vowel, cf. maet, paet, etc. which haes the same vowel as the first syllable of Shaetlan, & 3) it keeps the language name and place name easily distinguishable when written. This is the style I Hear Dee has adopted while trying to create a standardised orthography for the language.

As per Wikipedia:Naming conventions (languages), because of the use of Shaetlan being exclusive to the language, it would qualify as "unquestionably the primary topic for the name", so "Shaetlan language" seems unnecessary. As per Wikipedia:Article titles, Shaetlan is more precise and more concise, and it is more natural to native Shaetlan speakers as an autonym vs an exonym. This admittedly at the cost of being slightly less recognisable outside of Shetland, however Shaetlan is slowly becoming the new standard name for this language in linguistics circles. I think this is the best compromise here.

After this name change, I intend to do a bit of an overhaul of this article to set the record straight on languagehood and a number of other inaccuracies.

For full disclosure, I am one of the first few signatories to the ISO code change request application. I am a project co-investigator at I Hear Dee. I am also the person who requested this article be renamed last time! A lot has changed in the last 5 years in the Shetland linguistic scene - at the time I made the last request, the name change was a vast improvement over the previous name, but now is an appropriate time to move on. — 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 21:04, 16 October 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. TarnishedPath^talk 11:23, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

I'm more active on the Swedish speaking side of Wikipedia/Wiktionary, but I fully support the move of this article to Shaetlan, as this is the native standard pronunciation of the formerly considered dialect, now language. I also see a growing number of locals using this spelling and this standardisation in social media – it seems to have the general local support. Now what do I know? No, I'm not from Shetland, but I've got family ties to isles and spent a many summers there as a peerie lad. And it is indeed, heartwarming news to read about the new ISO 639 code and linguistic development that has been made in recent years. Admirable work! Well doon! Frodlekis (talk) 10:40, 17 October 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. Arguments like "as of yesterday" and "a growing number...using this spelling" should be weighed against WP:RECENTISM, WP:COMMONNAMES and WP:POLA. I'm fine with the removal of "dialect", but Wikipedia is not a compendium of ISO codes or a crystal ball. —  AjaxSmack  16:41, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

  @AjaxSmack While the change request for the ISO code was adopted on 15th October, the change request was submitted on 1st May 2023. This was by no means a flippant change, it required a very detailed application and took significantly longer than it was supposed to. It has been given thorough consideration by SIL. Prof. Velupillai, who was the driving force behind the application, has been suggesting that Shaetlan ought to be considered a language instead of a dialect for many years now.

  The term Shaetlan has appeared in print since at least 1988 (likely longer) to refer to the variety; this is not a neologism of our creation.

  Re: WP:COMMONNAMES, I fully admit this is a compromise (I am open about that above), but to use our native Shaetlan term I think this is the ill-best of the options available. If you wish to propose another alternative please do so. Re: WP:POLA, I fail to see how using a term which only refers to exactly what the article is about is astonishing. This article has existed since 2006, long before an ISO code was a consideration. This is a language of global importance in terms of G-L Mixed languages, so it is not an article purely to satisfy the ISO code list. Crystal balls need not be consulted, I have a well-sourced and long-overdue rewrite of the article in my userspace in progress as we speak. — 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 22:22, 21 October 2025 (UTC)

  I did not suggest that the propose title is "a neologism of our creation", but from this Google Ngram, it seems "Shaetlan" is far less common than the alternatives (as it doesn't even register in print sources). Your nomination does not include evidence of widespread adoption of this name to make a WP:COMMONNAMES case. If you wish simply to get rid of the "dialect", consider a move to ShetlandicShetlandic, a name with wide provenance already cited in the article. —  AjaxSmack  00:38, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

  The issue with an Ngram is that it can't take into account what native speakers actually say out loud. As someone who lives in Shetland, and as someone in the language activism scene who has conversations in and about Shaetlan daily, I can tell you that orders of magnitude more locals speak about Shaetlan over Shetlandic. If I counted how many times I heard the word Shetlandic said out loud over the course of a year, I would be able to count it on one hand. Shetlandic is again an exonym with adoption from only a tiny fraction of native speakers, the Ngram results are completely skewed by higher adoption from outside sources and ill-informed linguists. Changing the name to Shetlandic would be a step backwards from the current problematic name of the article. I will say it again: this is a compromise, but it is one that puts native speakers first. — 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 10:13, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

  "[W]hat native speakers actually say out loud" should not guide article titles at Wikipedia per WP:UE. Chinese speakers no doubt say "我們講的是中國話", but the article for the language should not be titled 中國話. "Outside sources" are exactly what a general reference like Wikipedia should use. —  AjaxSmack  01:33, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

  I agree that article should be called "Chinese" - and so does ISO, a reliable outside source. ISO is the most "official" source on the name our language has as yet. Until the language receives acceptance in local government, the next most official is UHI's Shaetlan Language Plan.

  You will see from WhirlieWheeter's reply below that the term "Shetlandic" is disapproved of, I can second this sentiment. Would you advocate we rename the Uluru article back to the colonial name, Ayer's Rock? — 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 08:20, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

  Oh my… Why do we bother?? Jaybainshetland (talk) 00:00, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

Support. As an L1 Shaetlan speaker living in Shetland, I've used the spelling "Shaetlan" to refer to the language for over 10 years. I personally do not know a single L1 Shaetlan speaker who uses the term "Shetlandic" to refer to the language. "Shetlandic" is a term that has been placed upon the language from outside sources, while in reality it's not used among L1 speakers. "Shetlandic" is a term that I have heard L1 speakers openly dismissing and disapproving of.

Renaming the article to "Shaetlan" acknowledges the adoption of ISO 639-3 code "scz" on 15th October 2025, it preserves the difference between the name of the islands and the language itself, and it allows the name used by its native speakers to be celebrated and acknowledged, rather than suppressing it with an outside term. WhirlieWheeter (talk) 11:54, 22 October 2025 (UTC)

The goal of Wikipedia is not to "celebrate and acknowledge", noble though that might be. It is a general reference work for the entire English-speaking world. —  AjaxSmack  01:33, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

Note: WikiProject Languages and WikiProject Scottish Islands have been notified of this discussion. TarnishedPath^talk 11:24, 27 October 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. Evidence of usage in reliable, English-language sources does not support this move. The ISO designation is a significant development but is insufficient. Ethnologue still contains to no entry for 'scz' (nor 'Shetland' or 'Shaetlan') and Glottolog still uses the name 'Shetland Scots'. A quick look for sources shows only 30 Google Scholar hits for 'Shaetlan' and just 3 on JSTOR. Other names for the language have more hits. I'm sympathetic to the cause and I recognize that there are few publications about this topic each year. I would be more inclined to support this move in the future if authoritative catalogues like Ethnolgogue or Glottoblog (ideally, both) reflect this name and with an assessment of usage by other high quality sources. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 00:03, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

  Maybe so, but can you find sources using “Shetlandic” or “Shetland language”? I highly doubt you will, as I believe theirs a snowballs chance of finding a reliably sourced English language citation talking about Shaetlan (a young, geographically limited, fairly endangered language) Jaybainshetland (talk) 16:37, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

  @Jaybainshetland check out the updated proposal below in the subsection Talk:Shetland dialect#Alternative proposal. To answer your question, Google Scholar has 40 hits for "Shetland language", 724 for "Shetland dialect", and 157 for "Shetland Scots". JSTOR has 92 for "Shetland dialect", 6 for "Shetland language", and 20 for "Shetland Scots". This shows most support for "Shetland dialect" but it is reasonable to make an editorial judgement that "Shetland language" is better and more accurate in this case. Overall, the number of publications is low. Three of the common names include "Shetland", which is also known as the name for the location, so including this makes the article title more recognizable. There is not a clear boundary between "languages" and "dialects" but calling this a "language" is reasonable based on the description in the article and in external sources. If you have thoughts on the alternative proposals Shetland language (my preference) or Shetland (language), please consider responding below. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 17:08, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose per Myceteae and AjaxSmack. Open to amending "dialect", but there's no evidence given that "Shaetlan" is commonly used (as claimed the "new standard name") by sources (not personal use), but instead leaning on advocacy and officialness which are not how titles are decided. Can be discussed again in the future, I do hope it catches on, but Wikipedia follows not leads. DankJae 21:51, 28 October 2025 (UTC)

Alternative proposal

It is now obvious I am not going to muster enough support at this point in time to move to Shaetlan. I am really disappointed by this, knowing that several international language organisations, both our main local news providers and a sizeable portion of the population here have seen the sense to adopt our own native term, and considering the effort that has gone into getting the ISO code under that name. As encouraged by those tactfully opposing, I fully intend to retry for this down the line when these ngrams are more favourable (mark my words!)

So, what do we do? I hope we can all at least agree that having the word "dialect" in the title is still no longer appropriate for a recognised language, so "Shetland dialect" is out. I can't see that "Shetland Scots" is an option either as Shaetlan is now recognised as a language in it's own right, not as a dialect of Scots. As anyone will see from the upcoming rewrite, in many ways Shaetlan shows more influence from Norn than Scots. "Shetlandic" is actively disliked as a colonial exonym by native speakers (as noted above, and myself included) and I would *strongly* recommend against it if it can be at all avoided.

As I see it, our best option is (please vote below if you would agree):

"Shetland (language)" — 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 08:30, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

• Support. With the caveat that this could be confusing to readers (and writers!) when one must frequently talk about a language in its setting and constantly disambiguate in the article text (this is exactly why I would much prefer "Shaetlan" = language, "Shetland" = place, and then it's instantly obvious. But that's clearly off the table for now). I don't think native speakers will be opposed except if the article text makes the distinction confusing. I'm guessing that using an ngram here is futile, seeing as it will be difficult to disambiguate the place, the ponies and sheepdogs, etc.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 08:30, 29 October 2025 (UTC)
• Support Shetland language using natural disambiguation instead of parenthetical disambiguation. There is sufficient support for this in sources. Given that the definition of a language vs. dialect is fuzzy and often loaded and that there are discrepancies in how this language is described, this is a reasonable change. "Shetland language" will be more recognizable to a wider readership. The use of "language" instead of "dialect" is reasonably consistent with description in the current article, more so with the proposed rewrite. @Griceylipper: any objection to Shetland language without the parentheses? —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 16:15, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

  I am agnostic on parenthesis, whatever is deemed most appropriate.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 16:20, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

  Support Shetland (language), too, if there is more support for this. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 19:47, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

Ping @AjaxSmack @DankJae @Frodlekis @WhirlieWheeter regarding updated proposal. See also: my response to Jaybainshetland in the original thread above. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 17:11, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose again. "Shetland language" is a) very rare in sources[2] and b) when used is often referring to the Norn language.[3][4] I'm not trying to be contrarian, but a name that is both uncommon and ambiguous should not be adopted until usage in the real world justifies it; otherwise, this comes close to WP:NOTADVOCACY/WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS or at least WP:CRYSTALBALL. Considering that this major work was published only five years ago, would the current title be that egregious for a few more years until real-world usage matches aspirations? —  AjaxSmack  18:39, 29 October 2025 (UTC)
  • Oops, I misread the new proposal. I don't oppose Shetland (language) if others favour it. I still oppose Shetland language per above. —  AjaxSmack  19:36, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

    This is understandable. I would support either. —Myceteae‍🍄‍🟫 (talk) 19:49, 29 October 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose. The article's sources treat the language variety in question as a dialect (this goes even for the sources in the rewritten article). The title should reflect this. As has been noted already, the proposer appears to be motivated by a desire to right great wrongs. Zacwill (talk) 03:54, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

  It is contradictory to deny the title "language" on this Wikipedia article when Wikimedia's own criteria for new languages is an ISO 639 code, which Shaetlan / Shetland (language) has. The content of many of the sources in the rewrite is older than the ISO code approval, so their classification of languagehood may be out of date. That does not necessarily make these sources unreliable for the rest of their descriptions of the specifics of this variety though.— 🐗 Griceylipper (✉️) 08:22, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

WP:CRYSTAL. It remains to be seen whether sources will write about Shetlandic differently now that it has been assigned an ISO code. Zacwill (talk) 15:01, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

You mean the old sources that were cited when Shaetlan was still considered a dialect? Those sources?

Many more updated sources have cited it as a language, and it has an ISO 639-3, to categorise Shaetlan as anything other than a language is entirely false, and borderline offensive. Jaybainshetland (talk) 22:24, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

• Support. I appreciate this is a compromise but it is a step in the right direction from the current title, which no longer reflects the fact that an ISO code has been allocated to the language. I would favour Shetland (language) over Shetland language, as the latter could refer to either Norn or Shaetlan which would be confusing. WhirlieWheeter (talk) 12:49, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

• Support (Reluctantly)

Although Shaetlan (in my opinion) is a better, more accurate title, theirs clearly not enough support to move the page, therefore i believe this alternative is a good compromise for the time being.

Although I support this title for now, i’d be keen to see this discussed again in the semi-near future. Jaybainshetland (talk) 22:20, 2 November 2025 (UTC)

• Oppose Shetland (language). It hasn't been shown that just "Shetland" refers to the language. I haven't seen any source provided in the article or in this discussion. Almost any other alternative would be better. Vpab15 (talk) 23:18, 4 November 2025 (UTC)