Talk:Isa Musa

This page

I think this article should be added into Habar Awal, as a sub-title KnowledgeAkil (talk) 13:23, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Inconsistencies

What is Issamussania? Never have we been called that! This whole article is filled with inconsistencies! KnowledgeAkil (talk) 13:26, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 22 April 2020

“ Agreement of Peace, Friendship, Slave Trade etc. between Great Britain and the Sheiks of the Issa Musse (Isamusania), signed at Berbera, 7 November 1856.”

This is wrong, the agreement was called “ Articles of peace and friendship concluded between the Habr Owel tribe of Somali“. Issa Musse is indeed descendants of the Habar Awal.

“ The Issa Mussa or Isse Musse (Somali: Ciise Muuse, Arabic: عيسى موسى‎, also spelled Isamusania ( Issa Musse Abdirahman Suber Awal Shiekh Ishaaq ibn Ahmad) is a major Somali clan. It is one of the major Somali clans”

NO ONE CALLS THE ISSE MUSSE ISEMUSANIA, THIS IS WRONG. Change it with: ‘The Issa Musa or Isse Musa (Somali: Ciise Muuse, Arabic: عيسى موسى. (Isa ibn Musa ibn Zubeir ibn Abdulrahman ‘Awal’ ibn Sheikh Ishaaq ibn Ahmed) is a subfamily of the Habar Awal.

“ Habar Magaadle Ismail (Garhajis ) Muhammad (Arap) Ayub Abdirahman (Subeer Awal)Habr Awal Afgab Musse Abdi Musse Abdalle Musse[3] Igalle Musse Eli Musse Sa’ad Musse[4]” this is extremely wrong

These are TOTALLY WRONG, I hail from the Isse Musse, and NO ONE calls us “ISAMUSANIA” this is factually wrong, I would like to request an edit permit so I can change and correct these WRONGS KnowledgeAkil (talk) 02:49, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@KnowledgeAkil:  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. GoingBatty (talk) 03:21, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Names and spelling

The name of this tribe was not “Isamusa” it was Isa Musa, or Isa bin Musa.

The lineage is not “Isa ibn Musa ibn Abdirahman ibn Sheikh Isḥāq ibn Aḥmad”

It is

Isa bin Musa bin Zubayr bin Abd el Rahman bin Sheikh Isḥāq bin Aḥmad al Hashimi

The subtribes names are not “Abokor Isa, Idarias Isa, Adam Isa, Mohamed Isa”, they are Abu Bakr bin Isa, Idris bin Isa, Adam bin Isa and Muhammad bin Isa.

Please change these Ismail7Hussein (talk) 20:12, 30 July 2024 (UTC)

Requested move 15 November 2025

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. Moved as an uncontested request with minimal participation. If there is any objection within a reasonable time frame, please ask me to reopen the discussion; if I am not available, please ask at the technical requests page. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jeffrey34555 (talk) 00:24, 6 December 2025 (UTC)

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Isamusa → Isa Musa – The renaming of this page was carried out by Jiilaal in June 2004 without any agreement or explanation of the reasons. Searching Google Scholar for Isamusa somali yields only hits for Isa Musa with space. Based on my search by Google Scholar, Issa Musa yielded 25 results, Isa Musa yielded 17, Issa Muse yielded 14, and Isa Muse yielded 1. Freetrashbox (talk) 03:28, 15 November 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 00:11, 22 November 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. Jeffrey34555 (talk) 19:02, 29 November 2025 (UTC)

Note: proposed new title was changed from "Issa Musa" on 23 November 2025 with [this edit]. P.I. Ellsworth , ed. – welcome! – 12:31, 24 November 2025 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Isamusa

Hello RMCD bot and Freetrashbox,

Let me explain why Isamusa or Isa Musa is a same thing.

Isa Means Jesus in Arabic/Somali and Musa means Moses in Arabic/Somali.

So I removed the Isamusa space

Originaly Isamusa is a Somali Isaaq sub-clan. in many Somali historical events the Isa Musa or Isamusa is writen same way like any other Somali clan- its combines two names that removed the space. Other Somali sub-clans example

Dhul-Bahante is Dhulbahante

Gada-Buursi is Gadabuursi

Isa-Musa is Isamusa

You can chech any historical Somali clans tree. like here https://oxfamilibrary.openrepository.com/bitstream/handle/10546/122751/bk-somali-conflict-part5-010194-en.pdf;jsessionid=F2B76AE307A6ABAEE548182BEC02157E?sequence=5

https://www.jstor.org/stable/4392784

https://www.dailysabah.com/africa/2017/04/06/400m-worth-deal-for-somalilands-historic-berbera-port-sparks-land-rush/amp

and more can find google in Somalia clans.

Also anyone can see that I mentioned any others spelling of Isamusa. IsaMusa, Issamussa, Issamousa, Issemuosa, Issamuse or Isemuse.

and even Ise Musa or Ise Muse is the same thing. Issa Musa, Isa Musa, Issa Muse, and Isa Muse all is Isamusa

Example

Usage comparison

✔️ Isa

• The standard and correct transliteration of the Arabic name عيسى (ʿĪsā).
• Used in Islamic, academic, and linguistic contexts.
• Appears in Qur’an translations, scholarly works, and most English references to the Arabic form of Jesus.

✔️ Issa

• Much less common- told by Chatgpt.com and Musa is the same thing of Isa instead Mussa.

“Isa Musa” is simply two names combined:

✔️ Isa (عيسى)

• Arabic name meaning Jesus.
• The Qur’anic name for Jesus.

✔️ Musa (موسى)

• Arabic name meaning Moses.
• The Qur’anic name for Moses.

✔️ Together: Isa Musa

This could be:

• A full name (given name + surname).
• A compound personal name used in some countries.
• A way of referring to Jesus and Moses (Isa & Musa).

If you want the meaning together, it would be:

➡️ “Jesus Moses.”

In Somali clan genealogy, Isa Musa (also written Ciisemuuse) is a major sub-clan, which itself is part of the larger Isaaq clan-family.

Finaly, I would like you do not change the main article title to Issa Musa, Isamusa is more easier and widely used in Somali clans and in Somali its Ciisemuuse becuase Issa is Often written simply as Isa in English and Mussa as Musa since the Isamusa information on Wikipedia is English.

Thank you

Jiilaal (talk) 08:44, 16 November 2025 (UTC)

To understand this discussion, knowledge of Somali is not required. According to WP:COMMONNAME, Use commonly recognizable names. Please provide examples of Isamusa without spaces from reliable sources.If you can't, this discussion is over. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:35, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

As I read the WP:COMMONNAME, still the Isa Musa is the correct name of The Isa Musa Somali clan instead Issa Musa so the discussion is the space of IsaMusa and Isamusa, so as Somali native I did my best to explain you that Isamusa or IsaMusa or even Isa Musa is the samething. Jiilaal (talk) 22:28, 17 November 2025 (UTC)

Your explanation lacks evidence. What matters is usage, not theory. First, provide an example of Isamusa without spaces. Freetrashbox (talk) 10:39, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

Thank you for let me clear my point of view,

We have already understood that the Isa and Musa are two common name and anyone can be named as Isa Musa but generaly Isa Musa is a Somali Isaaq sub-clan, Isamusa means people/clan which can make more clear name which represents the Somali sub-clan name.

So I would like you agree with me let Isamusa to be without is space on Wikipedia as an English article of the Isamusa clan as its now and let anyone can understand clearly when its Isamusa, it means the Somali clan/people and when its Isa Musa let it can be considered as common names that can be dressed anyone.

Example When you search Isa Musa on Google, it responds as Somali clan and other normal people called Isa Musa so the Isamusa is more clear Somali clan/people name and Isa Musa common names. I think that can make difference in common sence.

Soo - Maal = Means Soomaali

Ciise-Muuse = Ciisemuuse

Dhul-bahante = Dhulbahante

Guda-Biirsi = Gudabiirsi/Samaroon

also I mentioned that The Isamusa also contemporarily known as the Isa Musa

Even the word "Somali" is two words but still it stands as single word. Isamusa is more clear than Isa Musa as Somali clan name. Jiilaal (talk) 21:39, 18 November 2025 (UTC)

What I want to know is not the future usage of this word. Rather, it is the usage of this term in old day English-language text. For example, looking at the usage examples in the current version (including non-English ones,) all of them have spaces in between.

[2] English / Issa Muse,

[3] German / Isa Musa,

[5] Italian / Issa Mussa,

[6] German / Isa Musa,

[7] German / Isa Musa,

[8] Italian / Issa Musa,

[12] English / Isa Musa,

[13] English / Eesa Musa,

The well-known Somali scholar Ioan Lewis also refers to this clan as Issa Musa. (This may explain why this usage appears frequently in Google Scholar.) In response to that, you've gone so far as to fabricate quotes in this edit. Your actions are beyond my comprehension. Freetrashbox (talk) 12:44, 20 November 2025 (UTC)

According to WikiPedia's

1. COMMONNAME
2. [2] English / Issa Muse,

   [3] German / Isa Musa,

   [5] Italian / Issa Mussa,

   [6] German / Isa Musa,

   [7] German / Isa Musa,

   [8] Italian / Issa Musa,

   [12] English / Isa Musa,

   [13] English / Eesa Musa, Also I mentioned that the Isamusa also spelled as Isa Musa so at this point the discuastion is the space of The Isa Musa which it becomes Isamusa but not Issa Musa, becuase Issa Musa is not the standard name of this clan.

3. Since this article is written in English Isa Musa is the correct commonname.
4. The historically correct English spelling is: Isa so “Issa” is not a traditional English spelling in old dictionaries.
5. Wikipedia:No personal attacks, your words looks like personal attacks at the sametime.

Google also displaying Isa Musa as Somali clan even events and histories not only Issa Musa but why Isa is correct one

Isa”

✔ Standard English spelling

✔ Historically used

✔ Used in most translations and academic works

Origin: Arabic ʿĪsā (Jesus), also used as a short form of Isabel/Isabella in English history.

Usage: Widely used in English-speaking countries and in scholarly transliteration.

Spelling “Isa” appears in older English name dictionaries and modern academic transliteration.

Generally Isa Musa still is the correct name of this Isamusa Somali clan name. So I let WikiPedia decides if it will be Isa Musa with space or Isamusa without space. Jiilaal (talk) 08:33, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

Isa Musa is acceptable. Isamusa cannot be accepted unless its usage can be confirmed in reliable sources. Freetrashbox (talk) 11:49, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

I think that's okay too and I will add space change to Isamusa so it will be Isa Musa. Jiilaal (talk) 23:27, 21 November 2025 (UTC)

If there are no further comments, let's move on to Isa Musa. Freetrashbox (talk) 06:56, 23 November 2025 (UTC)

Yes no further commnets and I comfirmed with you to let's move on to Isa Musa. Jiilaal (talk) 14:48, 26 November 2025 (UTC)