Help talk:IPA/Spanish

This page is within the scope of the Wikipedia Help Project, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's help documentation for readers and contributors. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks. To browse help related resources see the Help Menu or Help Directory. Or ask for help on your talk page and a volunteer will visit you there.Wikipedia HelpWikipedia:Help ProjectTemplate:Wikipedia Help ProjectHelp

Linguistics: Phonetics

	Linguistics portal This page is within the scope of WikiProject Linguistics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of linguistics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LinguisticsWikipedia:WikiProject LinguisticsTemplate:WikiProject LinguisticsLinguistics
	This page is supported by Phonetics Task Force.

Spain

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Spain, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Spain on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SpainWikipedia:WikiProject SpainTemplate:WikiProject SpainSpain

Latin America

This page is within the scope of WikiProject Latin America, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Latin America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Latin AmericaWikipedia:WikiProject Latin AmericaTemplate:WikiProject Latin AmericaLatin America

Archives

Index

Archive 1	Archive 2	Archive 3
Archive 4	Archive 5

This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be auto-archived by if there are more than 4.

voiced /θ/

¿why is the voiced realization of /θ/ shown as [θ] instead of [ð]? Brawlio (talk) 20:31, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Because ⟨ð⟩ commonly represents the approximant realization of /d/ in transcription of Spanish. Even in narrow transcriptions that mark the voicing of /θ/, the voiced allophone is usually transcribed with ⟨θ̬⟩. But this key no longer marks the voicing of /s, f/ so there's no reason to mark the voicing of /θ/. Nardog (talk) 20:35, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

not true 75.143.18.234 (talk) 06:19, 8 February 2025 (UTC)[reply]

⟨r⟩ after /θ/

i believe the help page says ⟨r⟩ after /θ/ in a word like lazrar would be [ɾ], but i was wondering whether it's actually pronounced as [r] and wasn't mentioned because its occurrence is as uncommon as i think it is. it seems like it could go either way since it would be [r] with seseo or [ɾ] with voiced /θ/ like fricative /d/ Brawlio (talk) 21:26, 24 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think the [r] vs [ɾ] footnote's just slightly off. After a heterosyllabic consonant, only [r] appears. [θ] can't form an onset cluster with [ɾ], so lazrar must have [-θ.r-]. I don't have immediate access to the English version of Hualde's The Sounds of Spanish, but the Spanish version explains this. And /l, n, s/ are just the most common consonants for [r] to appear after.

I'm not sure how I'd rewrite the footnote, but maybe something explaining that only stop phonemes + /f/ can form onset clusters with /l/ or [r] would work; that's how it's explained in the Spanish version of (Hualde 2005) in section 4.3.2. Or you could list out all the consonant phonemes, or even list out the different letters that represent these phonemes as the DPD does.

And yeah, -zr- must be extremely rare word-internally in Spanish, in the DLE lazrar is the only word that has it. Erinius (talk) 00:09, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

i see, the DPD link you shared provides the example of Azrael pronounced with a [r] Brawlio (talk) 03:31, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

⟨r⟩ after /x/

⟨-jr-⟩, such as in lojro, is another rare word internal sequence that the help page seems to be implying is pronounced /xɾ/ but i'm not sure whether that's accurate Brawlio (talk) 18:01, 27 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Based on spelling I'd assume /x.r/, since typically Spanish is described as having only /b d g p t k f/ before the tap in onset clusters - but, as that dictionary page mentions, lojro is related to locro, a loan from Quechua which would have the tap - and in this cooking video the host pronounces it once, with a tap, at like 7:03. Erinius (talk) 05:54, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

his pronunciation at 6:55 kind of seems like more of a tap, while i think his pronunciation at 7:03 is a little bit more ambiguous. perhaps it's the proximity to the /x/, which i think may be more of a [χ~ʀ̥] realization, which may be expected given the possible quechua influence. but when listening at 0.25 speed, i'm not so sure it's his /ɾ/, but perhaps not quite his /r/ either. definitely need more data Brawlio (talk) 18:16, 28 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think this discussion would be more relevant to Spanish phonology. It won't affect more than a few transcriptions linking to this guide, and there are already thousands of them. Sol505000 (talk) 10:30, 3 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I'd be surprised if it affects even a single transcription to be honest. Erinius (talk) 04:04, 4 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[ᶞ] (and [ᶿ]) in final position

Should we replace final ð, which is highly variable by ᶞ? Arroyo Hernández (2009: 67) distingue entre 6 articulaciones distintas: [d] oclusiva sonora; [ð] fricativa sonora; [ᶞ] fricativa sonora débil; [ᶞ̥] / [ᶿ] fricativa ensordecida débil; [θ] fricativa interdental sorda; y, [Ø] cero fónico. — Jɑuмe ^(dis-me) 10:33, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

For instance, ciudad ('city') could be transcribed as [θjuˈðaᶞ]. In my opinion it is better this representation as it is in between its full pronunciation and cero fónico, which is especially common in the -dad suffix. — Jɑuмe ^(dis-me) 11:01, 29 October 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think ⟨ᶞ⟩ would be somewhat confusing given the superscript often signifies not optionality but a modification informed by the notational sound to the previous segment. In fact it's the latter usage that was officially part of the IPA at least from 1932 to 1989.

Some article do already use "(ð)" though, like Bellreguard, so it might be a good idea to incorporate it into the key, preferably specifying when it's appropriate after a survey of reliable sources. Nardog (talk) 12:32, 6 November 2025 (UTC)[reply]