Talk:Oracle Database

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Edit Request - 0 on 30-Sept-2019: Add Goal sentence in the first paragrah of the Oracle Database

Add Goal sentence in the first paragraph

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Information to be added: Please add the following claim as the last sentence of the first paragraph :

"One of the important goal of the Oracle Database is to build cutting edge technologies like Multitenancy, JSON, Analytics, Machine_learning, Blockchain, and many more, directly within a converged infrastructure to greatly simplify applications' development and deployment."

right after

"Oracle Database (commonly referred to as Oracle RDBMS or simply as Oracle) is a proprietary multi-model database[4] management system produced and marketed by Oracle Corporation." It is a database commonly used for running online transaction processing (OLTP), data warehousing (DW) and mixed (OLTP & DW) database workloads. The latest generation, Oracle Database 19c, is available on-prem, on-cloud, or in a hybrid-Cloud environment. 19c may also be deployed on Oracle Engineered Systems (e.g. Exadata) on-prem, on Oracle (public) cloud or (private) cloud at customer.[5] At Openworld 2017 in San Francisco, Executive Chairman of the Board and CTO, Larry Ellison announced the next database generation, Oracle Autonomous Database.[6] "

Explanation of the change: This is one of the most important goals of the Oracle Database and it is missing in the article.

References supporting change: Minute 37:22 from Video delivered by Juan Loaiza (Oracle EVP System Technology)

JFVerrier (talk) 15:55, 30 September 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

Why is this goal important? Who (other than Oracle employees) say so? Why are those technologies cutting edge? Who says so? - MrOllie (talk) 16:04, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks MrOllie, you are asking questions that could be asked for many if not all of the sentences I can read on this article.

For example, take the very first opening sentence that says "Oracle Database (commonly referred to as Oracle RDBMS or simply as Oracle) is a proprietary multi-model database[4] management system produced and marketed by Oracle Corporation."

Regarding "commonly referred to as ORACLE RDBMS or simply Oracle": who say so?

Regarding multi-model a reference number 4 here is given to an Oracle document. So that is said by Oracle employees no?

Why this went through and mine would not ?

This is exactly the same reasoning, no?

Sorry to ask but I am very new to this world and would sincerely like to add value to this article.

Would the following be better?

"The Oracle Database builds many technologies like Multitenancy, JSON, Analytics, Machine_learning, Blockchain, and many more, directly within a converged infrastructure to simplify applications' development and deployment." and making a reference to the video I refered too originally? at minute 37:22 https://www.oracle.com/openworld/on-demand.html?bcid=6087202381001

Thanks to let me know.

JFVerrier (talk) 17:40, 30 September 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

Reply 30-SEP-2019

One of the important goal [sic] of the Oracle Database is to build cutting edge technologies like Multitenancy, JSON, Analytics, Machine_learning, Blockchain, and many more, directly within a converged infrastructure to greatly simplify applications' development and deployment. This claim statement has several issues, 2 of which MrOllie mentioned. Another issue is that this appears to be a statement of the company's goals. Describing the object of a company's ambitions or efforts, as well as descriptions of its aims and its desired results, are ultimately not the purpose of the article.

The article is meant primarily to be an accounting of what the company has done — i.e., what it has produced, sold, and encountered as an institution existing in a business marketplace. The realm of the real, or actual, is what Wikipedia deals in, as in what actually occurred during a business's existence. The realm of ideas — such as hopes, desires, goals and aspirations are not the purpose of a Wikipedia page assigned to cover a business.

Now one could say that instead of meaning to write "goals", what was actually meant was to merely describe what the "purposes" of the Oracle database is,^[a] and then to list the technologies used by the company, in order to imply that the company's tech does what it's supposed to do....One of the important goal(s) of the Oracle Database is to build cutting edge technologies like Multitenancy...to greatly simplify applications' development is really just saying "The goal of the company is to deliver efficient technology such as project X, a project which carries out its duties efficiently", which is a nice roundabout way of complimenting and thereby promoting the company's products twice in one sentence, which is also not the purpose of the article. Regards, Spintendo 18:19, 30 September 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Notes

^ A purpose is just another way of saying a goal.

Absolutely agree with you. The thing is that all these technologies are already there in the database. So I should rephrase this to list what is in there currently. Will do it soon. Thanks JFVerrier (talk) 20:00, 30 September 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

Reply 01-OCT-2019

I suggest adding the following claim as the last sentence of the first paragraph :
"The Oracle Database integrates in a secure, highly efficient and available converged infrastructure the following technologies to simplify applications' development and deployment by avoiding polyglot persistence:

right after

"Oracle Database (commonly referred to as Oracle RDBMS or simply as Oracle) is a proprietary multi-model database[4] management system produced and marketed by Oracle Corporation." It is a database commonly used for running online transaction processing (OLTP), data warehousing (DW) and mixed (OLTP & DW) database workloads. The latest generation, Oracle Database 19c, is available on-prem, on-cloud, or in a hybrid-Cloud environment. 19c may also be deployed on Oracle Engineered Systems (e.g. Exadata) on-prem, on Oracle (public) cloud or (private) cloud at customer.[5] At Openworld 2017 in San Francisco, Executive Chairman of the Board and CTO, Larry Ellison announced the next database generation, Oracle Autonomous Database.[6] "

Explanation:
The current introduction in the page mainly focuses on traditional RDBMS functionalities and does not sufficiently show the big evolution of the system towards ease of application development, integrated in the database during the past four years.

References supporting change:
Minute 37:22 from Video delivered by Juan Loaiza (Oracle EVP System Technology) and links for each technology in the text above pointing to the official Oracle documentation. JFVerrier (talk) 08:36, 1 October 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

I suggest the Oracle website is the best place for marketing claims, not Wikipedia. Guy (help!) 09:17, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think that what we say in this paragraph is marketing, as all references are technical information and sourced directly from the official documentation website which is the legal single source of what the product is about.

I find it weird and shocking that you completely wiped out almost the entire previous content of the Oracle Database page without even asking anyone; this right after I was trying to add valuable information. This content was there since years and provided by valuable people.

If you apply the same recommendations as these, there are probably hundreds of Wikipedia pages you will have to fix.

In addition, the references number 4 and 5 are from the Oracle website, so why are you keeping them in the introduction?

I don't see any logic in all this.

JFVerrier (talk) 13:25, 1 October 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

Purpose of Wikipedia

Wikipedia is not intended to be a How-To guide or technical manual. Much of the technical content would be fine at Wikibooks but not here - virtually all of it was drawn from Oracle publications either on its own website or sponsored. I realise that Oracle's website is a nightmare, and finding things like platform support by version is often a challenge, but we're here to describe things for a lay audience, not to provide a technical reference.

We could do with sections on Oracle engineered systems, RAC and the like, but drawn from reliable independent sources and describing them, not telling people how to specify and use them. Guy (help!) 09:41, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

You don't want marketing information nor technical information. What is left for a technical product like Oracle? A simple name like RDBMS is a technical acronym.

What to say about the "Releases and versions" table ? It is full of technical information about the markee features and you refused to add references to the meaning of these features ...

In addition, somebody from Dell like you who states "Oracle's website is a nightmare" without sourcing his statement must have grief against Oracle. This is not tolerable and seems to be a COI to me.

I spent multiple days trying to accommodate all the Wikipedia processes talking to so many different Wikipedia people with different opinions, only to see someone coming out of the blue and discarding content based on his own dictatorial principles (see all edits already attempted on this talk page and history). This is against the basic collaboration principles of open source projects like Wikipedia.

JFVerrier (talk) 13:44, 1 October 2019 (UTC)JFVerrier[reply]

JFVerrier ... Given Dell and Oracle have a competition overlap the in x86 midrange server market perhaps Jzg/Guy should strictly not have commented, though I'd broadly concur with having nightmares on the Oracle edelivery website until I'd got some sort of knack, but I'm pretty useless and I've also had difficulties (nightmares) on IBM, HP, etc. too ... and even a few blue words at the Dell website for that matter all for the old patches. I note you seem to have referred to Oracle Database as simply Oracle which perhaps is interesting given your earlier comments. In my opinion it is well possible to write a suitable article on Oracle Database product ... I would treat it the same way I treat a steam engine article. But it requires diligence and criticisms and warts and history to be considered. As with all software one only really knows what was wrongs with version X-1 when version X comes out. But in general the treatment this article has just received is little different than that received by some other commercial software products in my opinion. I too have invested my time with you. thankyou.Djm-leighpark (talk) 22:24, 1 October 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Final comment in main article does not follow NPOV

The last line in the main article does not appear to follow NPOV. Using words like 'fleecing' suggest underhand dealings by the company. This should be rephrased and citations about legal cases/controversies given. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KimballKinnison (talk • contribs) 12:10, 25 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

[1] A purpose is just another way of saying a goal.

[a]