Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 831

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Site review & acceptance

Hello Folks,

I started creating a new Wikipedia page a few years ago for a well-known musician in Harry Belafonte's band, Mr. John Cartwright. He's has become an important mentor to musicians in the Los Angeles area. He's approaching 80 and I wanted to make sure the world knew about him and his contribution.

The page is mostly finished, but I got pulled away from the project. Can you tell me if it's approved so I can complete it? I also want to start a new page for a historic bookstore that should be remembered.

Thanks for your help. As an author and editor, I like being part of the Wiki team.

Diana Weynand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diana Weynand (talk • contribs) 20:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Diana Weynand: There's a huge problem that's going to prevent the draft from being approved -- it doesn't cite any sources. Another issue (more easily fixed) is the use of editorializing phrasing, such as "distinguished" and "accomplished." In such cases, show, don't tell.

My usual advice for writing articles on any topic:

1) Choose a topic whose notability is attested by discussions of it in several reliable independent sources.

2) Gather as many professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources you can find.

3) Focus on just the ones that are not dependent upon or affiliated with the subject, but still specifically about the subject and providing in-depth coverage (not passing mentions). If you do not have at least three such sources, the subject is not yet notable and trying to write an article at this point will only fail.

4) Summarize those sources left after step 3, adding citations at the end of them. You'll want to do this in a program with little/no formatting, like Microsoft Notepad or Notepad++, and not in something like Microsoft Word or LibreOffice Writer. Make sure this summary is just bare statement of facts, phrased in a way that even someone who hates the subject can agree with.

5) Combine overlapping summaries (without arriving at new statements that no individual source supports) where possible, repeating citations as needed.

6) Paraphrase the whole thing just to be extra sure you've avoided any copyright violations or plagiarism.

7) Use the Article wizard to post this draft and wait for approval.

8) Expand the article using sources you put aside in step 2 (but make sure they don't make up more than half the sources for the article, and make sure that affiliated sources don't make up more than half of that).

Doing something besides those steps typically results in the article not being approved, or even in its deletion. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Welcome to the Teahouse, Diana Weynand. Your draft is located at User:Diana Weynand/John R. Cartwright. I am sorry, but your draft is entirely lacking in references to reliable, independent sources, which are the building blocks of an acceptable Wikipedia article. Please read our core content policies Verifiability and No original research. At this time, your draft article is not in compliance with those policies. I recommend that you read and study Your first article and Referencing for beginners. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:10, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

To add to what Ian.thomson and Cullen328 have said, Diana Weynand: however distinguished Cartwright may be "mak[ing] sure the world knew about him and his contribution" is precisely what Wikipedia is not for: that is called promotion, and is strictly forbidden. Wikipedia is for summarising what uninvolved people have already chosen to publish about a subject. --ColinFine (talk) 21:14, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

My quote

I'm a beginner and I'm really confused I would like to start editing, but I don't know were to go or how to go about it. - Selena L - S3e3l3e3n3a2030 (talk) 18:12, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

You could start by following the various links in the messages on your user talkpage. If you have specific questions after that, please feel free to ask. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@S3e3l3e3n3a2030: If you want to test editing, Wikipedia:Sandbox allows you to edit as much as you like. Once you have familiarized yourself with how to edit, check out Wikipedia:Tutorial for a quick guide. Regards SoWhy 18:45, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Hey, Selena L. I'm sure you're frustrated by having your first article deleted, but don't be downhearted. Another suggestion to get you started, and to enjoy learning about how Wikipedia operates, is to have a go at The Wikipedia Adventure. It's a fun, interactive tour, during which you can earn up to 15 separate badges for achieving different assisted tasks. Learning to edit Wikipedia is a little bit like driving a car for the first time. Whilst you could just jump in and set off down the road at high speed, there's a high probability that you'll crash and never want to drive again. Luckily, no-one here gets ever killed from editing, but it's always best to drive slowly and on familiar roads to start with. What are your interests? Why not go and look at a few articles about the things that really interest you - then see if you can find any spelling errors, better ways of stating known facts, or adding in better references? Working on the things you find of interest to you personally is often the best way to start off. Failing that, there's a few hundred thousand other tasks that need fixing - see the 'Help Out' section at Wikipedia:Community portal! Regards and best wishes at the start of your own personal Wikipedia journey. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:01, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Block self request

Block 666thedevil2222222 reason keep on making bad page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 666thedevil222222 (talk • contribs) 22:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello 666thedevil222222 welcome to the Teahouse. Whilst I'm not convinced your username will be seen by some people as particularly appropriate, I see no reason for you to think you should be blocked at this stage. Yes, you've created some rubbish new pages which have been deleted or turned into a draft. But so long as you learn from the experience, and don't create silly articles for the sake of it, you should be OK. The best way to get blocked is to continuously ignore the reasonable advice of other editors, or to demonstrate that you're WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopaedia. You haven't done that as yet. So, why not give The Wikipedia Adventure a go, and win up to 15 badges in our fun interactive teaching tutorial? Then read Wikipedia:Your first article to help you decide if making new pages is really for you, or if perhaps there are other things you can contribute to here. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Two articles submitted for the same artist

Hello, thank you very much for the invitation. I've been working in the page of a korean singer now i submitted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jungkook however i just noticed there's another draft for the same artist that was also submitted but that it's incomplete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jeon_Jung-kook

I know one of both will be declined, but I wanted to know if in case the other article is the one declined the information that contains in the discography can be used to create a new page of the artist's discography? leigiraldo (talk) 17:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Leigiraldo: There is no rule that one has to be declined but even if, it would make sense to have a redirect from one name to the other. Any information can be merged into another page if the rules for attribution are followed. You can even retract your submission and merge your content to the other draft while a review is pending (the template explicitly states that you are free to continue working on it). See Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Merging for more details. Regards SoWhy 17:34, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I already wrote to the other editor so we can solve this and give a quality page for the artist. Have a nice day. ↳ LeiGiraldo . . . 21:15, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Leigiraldo: Just adding to what SoWhy has said, it's worth mentioning that there is already a redirect from a similarly-named page titled Jungkook (singer). After creating, it was almost immediately redirected to BTS (band) as that page (see this version) had no references, so that wasn't surprising. Nor was it very well named, as there's no other Jungkook on Wikipedia, so really no need to differentiate him from anyone else. I would be extremely surprised if, by collaborating, the two of you can't create an article that gets accepted. In my household, I hear little else but how wonderful Jungkook, Suga, Jimin and all the rest of BTS is (my daughter is off to see them in concert in London later this year, too, so I shalln't hear the end of it!). I realise BTS fans can be a teeny bit on the keen side when it comes to their idols, and it's easy to want to cram in as much as you can into a new article. I would suggest you resist that temptation, and pare down the draft a bit, removing all trivial content and information that is sourced from minor mentions or unreliable sources, sticking only to the bare facts and Reliable Sources about this heart-throb singer. Then I'm convinced you'll get your draft accepted as being Notable, or meeting WP:MUSICBIO. You are to be congratulated in wanting to take the collaborative approach to adding to this encyclopaedia. Good luck with it. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

User:Nick Moyes Thank you very much for your message, I'll be fixing those recommendations to improve the article and make it more professional, I've been searching for all the reliable sources because I really think these boys deserve their own page. Many try to search them now that they have individual music and producing releases that are charting around the world for the first time ever for korean artists and it's frustrating they can't find any english article about him. I hope your daughter has the best time in the concert, I'm so happy for her. This is the first time they go to UK and it's already in such an iconic venue. Those boys are such an inspiration how starting from zero and being ignored by their own country they now became in their pride. I'll been supporting via periscope it's going to be a really amazing iconic night.

I also talked to the user that has the other article and she agrees to retract her submission but doesn't know how to do it so I'll try to search and send her the information. I'll do my best working on this so it can be accepted, it would be an honour to be added as Notable and meeting WP:MUSICBIO (I changed my username recently it's not leigiraldo anymore) ↳ GiovannaG . . . ^{(My talk)} 23:50, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

articel genrated wrong place?

Dear Teahouse. I think I was a bit confused while generating the first draft article. I am not sure, if I made any mistake in placing it not in the sandbox? I can't check somehow the status ? Is about corn sauce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WuHaiJie (talk • contribs) 01:41, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello, WuHaiJie. You were trying to write a draft on your user page. That page is for some information about you as a Wikipedia editor. I moved your draft article to Draft:Corn Sauce. I recommend that you read Your first article, and use that information to improve your draft. Your can ask questions here at the Teahouse at any time. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:53, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

My edits are accurate but keep getting deleted

Info on my Wiki page is way out of date and I'm trying to update/delete. I keep getting blocked or reverted. What do I do? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bethanybee (talk • contribs)

@Bethanybee: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. I assume this relates to Toben Seymour. If you are Tobin, you should be aware that the page is an article about you, and not "your Wiki page". Please read the guidelines on autobiograpical edits at WP:AUTO. You should also confirm your identity with Wikipedia by emailing the address listed in the paragraph this link takes you to, as we have no way to know you are who you say you are. If there is information on the page that is incorrect, we want to know what it is, but you should not edit the article yourself. You should post your concerns on the article talk page, which is Talk:Toben Seymour. This will allow other independent editors who follow that article to review your comments and determine how to proceed. To draw additional attention to it, you can make your comments an edit request(follow the instructions at that link) 331dot (talk) 22:59, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Related at Wikipedia:Help_desk#Editing_my_own_page. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 06:14, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

First time user

Dear All,

I created wiki business page and started getting surprises with spam etc. I am surprise how other companies (there are millions of company web pages) are able to write about their business. I am very new to wiki and would appreciate if someone could help me with this.

Please note, this is the FIRST time i am landing on wiki and getting warnings. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bookcheap (talk • contribs) 07:38, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

It would appear from your username and your draft article that you are in direct conflict with Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines. Do go to that link and read all of it, but the key words are "COI editing is strongly discouraged on Wikipedia." HiLo48 (talk) 07:44, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Bookcheap: Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, not a business directory. We have articles about notable businesses but they are written by volunteer editors, not by people associated with that business.

Your username is also a problem. I'll leave a note about that on your talk page in a moment. – Joe (talk) 07:46, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Zeremariam Fre - new page

Dr Zeremariam Fre founder of the Pastoral and Environmental Network in the Horn of Africa (PENHA) has just been awarded the prestigious Desmond Tutu Reconciliation Fellowship. The award ceremony is on 4 October and will attract media interest. My page for him is ready to upload. Do I need prior approval and where do I upload the content? Thank you for you guidance. Nicole — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nicolekenton (talk • contribs) 12:33, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Did you read the replies which you received at WP:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 825#creating two pages - Dr Fre and PENHA? --David Biddulph (talk) 12:43, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

What should I do?

My article, Feng Timo, has ben nominated for deletion. I think it's still possible to save it. But what should I do? Omega68537(talk) 04:56, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Omega68537: Don't panic. It's possible to save it provided there are reliable sources report about the subject. Now, go to the deletion discussion and using reliable sources explain why you think the subject merits an article. Since it's about a musician, the guideline is WP:NMUSIC, compare the points there with your sources and then write the reason in the discussion. Also, in the event it's eventually deleted (or even retained) just know that it's not your article, it's Wikipedia's. None of us has ownership of any text here, we only contribute.–Ammarpad (talk) 05:11, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Ammarpad: Thanks, but Feng Timo is NOT a professional musician, so it's difficult to find sources to proof that she meets WP:NMUSIC. In fact, Feng Timo is a professional network anchor. So is WP:NMUSIC fully applt to it? And what should I do? Omega68537(talk) 10:10, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Well, generally you should be looking for "multiple reliable sources" about her, irrespective of whether the guideline fits her profession or not. Since she's an anchor, then WP:JOURNALIST may be closer to her. But just find sources that can make her to pass WP:GNG and present your argument there. –Ammarpad (talk) 10:22, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Ammarpad: Thanks. I think she probably meets this notability standard, but I can hardly find more reliable sources. Unfortunately, Feng Timo is gettine less and less popular due to much negative news, see[1], [2]. So the probility of being deleted may be increased. This is why I'm panic. Omega68537(talk) 11:05, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

"Much negative news" should make it easier to establish that she is notable. Maproom (talk) 13:08, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Starting a new page

Can someone please direct me to where i can start creating a new page. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ayse73 (talk • contribs) 16:38, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Ayse73: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Please understand that successfully creating a Wikipedia article can be difficult. You may wish to spend some time learning about how Wikipedia works first. You can do this by first using the new user tutorial, and then taking some time to edit existing articles to get a feel for the process. However, if you still want to dive right in to creating articles, you should read Your First Article, and then visit Articles for Creation. 331dot (talk) 16:47, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Why I edit

Where i can explain why i edit — Preceding unsigned comment added by Suchasbloom (talk • contribs) 16:11, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Suchasbloom: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. If this refers to the post on your user talk page asking you to make an edit summary, I can explain. Below the window in which you type your edits, there is a smaller window below the words "edit summary". This is where you can type a brief explanation of what your edit accomplishes. This helps other editors to know what you did. 331dot (talk) 16:23, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

@Suchasbloom: The above applies to the desktop version of the site, reached by clicking "Desktop" at the bottom of the mobile site. I see you use the mobile site. There you get a box saying "How did you improve the page?" after clicking "Next" and before saving. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:14, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

wanted to create a new article about news website

i want to create a new article for news website which is few years old and does not have lots of blogs or sources. the only source it has right now is its website and its social media pages. can anyone please help me out here, wheather i can create this new article or not with respect to the souces/references required in wikipedia? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appu bhatnagar (talk • contribs) 12:53, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Simples. No independent published reliable sources means no article. --David Biddulph (talk) 12:57, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

hi david thanks for the reply. need a bit more clarification on the following.

what about forum pages and blogs of well published and accepted journals. the one posted by scholars and researchers with proof of data. can that be used as a reliable source? though this is mentioned in the source link you shared, but based on that i am not able to make a conclusion. can you help me on that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Appu bhatnagar (talk • contribs) 14:52, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

A journal may have a forum or blog (although I have seen little of that), but if anyone is allow to post stuff not subject to peer review, in my opinion - not. David notMD (talk) 00:25, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

How thorogh must initial articles be?

Exactly how through must an article be for initial submission? I'm wondering exactly how far we can go into discussion of certain disciplines, such as explaining United States supreme court cases, while still refraining from what is, in some states, defined as the unlawful practice of law. USN007 (talk) 20:27, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello USN007, and welcome to the Teahouse. If what you put in article-space clearly meets the General notability guideline, WP:GNG, "thorough" can came later. Let me give you an example: Norse Mythology (Neil Gaiman) is not "thorough", but if you check the cites it's clear it meets GNG, so it "sticks". Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 21:24, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Hi USN007. You won't be putting your own analysis of the case in the article, so there is not a problem. See Wikipedia:No original research. Instead you will need independent secondary sources that explain why the case is notable and what the consequences of the decision were. StarryGrandma (talk) 00:32, 16 September 2018 (UTC)