Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 831

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Site review & acceptance

Hello Folks,

I started creating a new Wikipedia page a few years ago for a well-known musician in Harry Belafonte's band, Mr. John Cartwright. He's has become an important mentor to musicians in the Los Angeles area. He's approaching 80 and I wanted to make sure the world knew about him and his contribution.

The page is mostly finished, but I got pulled away from the project. Can you tell me if it's approved so I can complete it? I also want to start a new page for a historic bookstore that should be remembered.

Thanks for your help. As an author and editor, I like being part of the Wiki team.

Diana Weynand — Preceding unsigned comment added by Diana Weynand (talk • contribs) 20:56, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Diana Weynand: There's a huge problem that's going to prevent the draft from being approved -- it doesn't cite any sources. Another issue (more easily fixed) is the use of editorializing phrasing, such as "distinguished" and "accomplished." In such cases, show, don't tell.

My usual advice for writing articles on any topic:

1) Choose a topic whose notability is attested by discussions of it in several reliable independent sources.

2) Gather as many professionally-published mainstream academic or journalistic sources you can find.

3) Focus on just the ones that are not dependent upon or affiliated with the subject, but still specifically about the subject and providing in-depth coverage (not passing mentions). If you do not have at least three such sources, the subject is not yet notable and trying to write an article at this point will only fail.

4) Summarize those sources left after step 3, adding citations at the end of them. You'll want to do this in a program with little/no formatting, like Microsoft Notepad or Notepad++, and not in something like Microsoft Word or LibreOffice Writer. Make sure this summary is just bare statement of facts, phrased in a way that even someone who hates the subject can agree with.

5) Combine overlapping summaries (without arriving at new statements that no individual source supports) where possible, repeating citations as needed.

6) Paraphrase the whole thing just to be extra sure you've avoided any copyright violations or plagiarism.

7) Use the Article wizard to post this draft and wait for approval.

8) Expand the article using sources you put aside in step 2 (but make sure they don't make up more than half the sources for the article, and make sure that affiliated sources don't make up more than half of that).

Doing something besides those steps typically results in the article not being approved, or even in its deletion. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Welcome to the Teahouse, Diana Weynand. Your draft is located at User:Diana Weynand/John R. Cartwright. I am sorry, but your draft is entirely lacking in references to reliable, independent sources, which are the building blocks of an acceptable Wikipedia article. Please read our core content policies Verifiability and No original research. At this time, your draft article is not in compliance with those policies. I recommend that you read and study Your first article and Referencing for beginners. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 21:10, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

To add to what Ian.thomson and Cullen328 have said, Diana Weynand: however distinguished Cartwright may be "mak[ing] sure the world knew about him and his contribution" is precisely what Wikipedia is not for: that is called promotion, and is strictly forbidden. Wikipedia is for summarising what uninvolved people have already chosen to publish about a subject. --ColinFine (talk) 21:14, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

My quote

I'm a beginner and I'm really confused I would like to start editing, but I don't know were to go or how to go about it. - Selena L - S3e3l3e3n3a2030 (talk) 18:12, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

You could start by following the various links in the messages on your user talkpage. If you have specific questions after that, please feel free to ask. --David Biddulph (talk) 18:45, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@S3e3l3e3n3a2030: If you want to test editing, Wikipedia:Sandbox allows you to edit as much as you like. Once you have familiarized yourself with how to edit, check out Wikipedia:Tutorial for a quick guide. Regards SoWhy 18:45, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Hey, Selena L. I'm sure you're frustrated by having your first article deleted, but don't be downhearted. Another suggestion to get you started, and to enjoy learning about how Wikipedia operates, is to have a go at The Wikipedia Adventure. It's a fun, interactive tour, during which you can earn up to 15 separate badges for achieving different assisted tasks. Learning to edit Wikipedia is a little bit like driving a car for the first time. Whilst you could just jump in and set off down the road at high speed, there's a high probability that you'll crash and never want to drive again. Luckily, no-one here gets ever killed from editing, but it's always best to drive slowly and on familiar roads to start with. What are your interests? Why not go and look at a few articles about the things that really interest you - then see if you can find any spelling errors, better ways of stating known facts, or adding in better references? Working on the things you find of interest to you personally is often the best way to start off. Failing that, there's a few hundred thousand other tasks that need fixing - see the 'Help Out' section at Wikipedia:Community portal! Regards and best wishes at the start of your own personal Wikipedia journey. Nick Moyes (talk) 22:01, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Block self request

Block 666thedevil2222222 reason keep on making bad page — Preceding unsigned comment added by 666thedevil222222 (talk • contribs) 22:03, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello 666thedevil222222 welcome to the Teahouse. Whilst I'm not convinced your username will be seen by some people as particularly appropriate, I see no reason for you to think you should be blocked at this stage. Yes, you've created some rubbish new pages which have been deleted or turned into a draft. But so long as you learn from the experience, and don't create silly articles for the sake of it, you should be OK. The best way to get blocked is to continuously ignore the reasonable advice of other editors, or to demonstrate that you're WP:NOTHERE to build an encyclopaedia. You haven't done that as yet. So, why not give The Wikipedia Adventure a go, and win up to 15 badges in our fun interactive teaching tutorial? Then read Wikipedia:Your first article to help you decide if making new pages is really for you, or if perhaps there are other things you can contribute to here. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:47, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Two articles submitted for the same artist

Hello, thank you very much for the invitation. I've been working in the page of a korean singer now i submitted https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jungkook however i just noticed there's another draft for the same artist that was also submitted but that it's incomplete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Jeon_Jung-kook

I know one of both will be declined, but I wanted to know if in case the other article is the one declined the information that contains in the discography can be used to create a new page of the artist's discography? leigiraldo (talk) 17:21, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Leigiraldo: There is no rule that one has to be declined but even if, it would make sense to have a redirect from one name to the other. Any information can be merged into another page if the rules for attribution are followed. You can even retract your submission and merge your content to the other draft while a review is pending (the template explicitly states that you are free to continue working on it). See Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia and Wikipedia:Merging for more details. Regards SoWhy 17:34, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

Thank you so much, I already wrote to the other editor so we can solve this and give a quality page for the artist. Have a nice day. ↳ LeiGiraldo . . . 21:15, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

@Leigiraldo: Just adding to what SoWhy has said, it's worth mentioning that there is already a redirect from a similarly-named page titled Jungkook (singer). After creating, it was almost immediately redirected to BTS (band) as that page (see this version) had no references, so that wasn't surprising. Nor was it very well named, as there's no other Jungkook on Wikipedia, so really no need to differentiate him from anyone else. I would be extremely surprised if, by collaborating, the two of you can't create an article that gets accepted. In my household, I hear little else but how wonderful Jungkook, Suga, Jimin and all the rest of BTS is (my daughter is off to see them in concert in London later this year, too, so I shalln't hear the end of it!). I realise BTS fans can be a teeny bit on the keen side when it comes to their idols, and it's easy to want to cram in as much as you can into a new article. I would suggest you resist that temptation, and pare down the draft a bit, removing all trivial content and information that is sourced from minor mentions or unreliable sources, sticking only to the bare facts and Reliable Sources about this heart-throb singer. Then I'm convinced you'll get your draft accepted as being Notable, or meeting WP:MUSICBIO. You are to be congratulated in wanting to take the collaborative approach to adding to this encyclopaedia. Good luck with it. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:48, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

User:Nick Moyes Thank you very much for your message, I'll be fixing those recommendations to improve the article and make it more professional, I've been searching for all the reliable sources because I really think these boys deserve their own page. Many try to search them now that they have individual music and producing releases that are charting around the world for the first time ever for korean artists and it's frustrating they can't find any english article about him. I hope your daughter has the best time in the concert, I'm so happy for her. This is the first time they go to UK and it's already in such an iconic venue. Those boys are such an inspiration how starting from zero and being ignored by their own country they now became in their pride. I'll been supporting via periscope it's going to be a really amazing iconic night.

I also talked to the user that has the other article and she agrees to retract her submission but doesn't know how to do it so I'll try to search and send her the information. I'll do my best working on this so it can be accepted, it would be an honour to be added as Notable and meeting WP:MUSICBIO (I changed my username recently it's not leigiraldo anymore) ↳ GiovannaG . . . ^{(My talk)} 23:50, 14 September 2018 (UTC)

articel genrated wrong place?

Dear Teahouse. I think I was a bit confused while generating the first draft article. I am not sure, if I made any mistake in placing it not in the sandbox? I can't check somehow the status ? Is about corn sauce. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WuHaiJie (talk • contribs) 01:41, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Hello, WuHaiJie. You were trying to write a draft on your user page. That page is for some information about you as a Wikipedia editor. I moved your draft article to Draft:Corn Sauce. I recommend that you read Your first article, and use that information to improve your draft. Your can ask questions here at the Teahouse at any time. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 02:53, 15 September 2018 (UTC)