Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 12
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Cite web needs a section parameter
We need a |section= parameter in {{cite web}}. We used to have better support for this, it seems to have been "rationalised".
I'm just trying to reference a PDF hundreds of pages long. It has chapters and legalistic paragraph or section numbering, yet it's not published except on the web, it has no ISBN, it's not a "book". |section= or |chapter= annotation would be useful and appropriate here. Merging the section numbers into the title (as suggested) breaks downstream metadata handling. Andy Dingley (talk) 13:38, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
- This cite? So what if it doesn't have an ISBN? That source is book length, has chapters, and pages, is in electronic form which would seem to pass the duck test for an e-book. Therefore, use
{{cite book}}. - —Trappist the monk (talk) 14:03, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
- Similar issues arise with books and other documents. Rather than sections or chapters, a more general solution might be to allow
|at=to co-exist with|page=/|pages=. In this case, one would write|at=Rule 184.3|page=208. In others, it would be|at=Table 3.1or|at=Map 9in conjunction with a page number. Kanguole 14:05, 21 February 2016 (UTC)|at=would work for me (better than calling something that isn't a book a book). I tried that, but it's either/or with|pages=.- Incidentally (AIUI) this isn't a book and can't be readily bought as a book. That itself is a source of some annoyance to those who'd like to be able to buy it as a bound paper book, but instead keep ending up with ragged printouts. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:15, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
- If you just dislike calling it a book, use {{Citation}}, with
|mode=CS1if you must scatter stops everywhere. :-) Peter coxhead (talk) 22:23, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
- If you just dislike calling it a book, use {{Citation}}, with
- A
|section=parameter would be useful only in those cases (analoguous with the use of|pages=) where the source as a whole is a sub-unit of a larger work (such as an article in a journal, or contribution that is published separately). Where one is citing a specific section (or page) then it is best not to merge a specific detail into the full citation. In the typical case where a source is cited only once it is quite acceptable to append the specific location after the template. Which is a tad cumbersome with {cite} as you have defeat the automatic terminal punctuation (with|postscript=none). And another reason for using {citation}. Or (as Peter suggests)|mode=CS1. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 21:05, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Proper use of Website not explained.
From the CS1 messages it appears that it is not proper to use a URL in the website= entry for cite web. I think that needs to be *much* better explained if that is a problem. A would expect a new user to be much more likely to do {{cite web|url=http://www.example.com/widgets|title=Widgets through the ages|website=http://www.example.com}} than {{cite web|url=http://www.example.com/widgets|title=Widgets through the ages|website=Example Company}}. IMO, *either* website= needs to be specifically added to both Help:CS1 errors#External link in |<param>= (which doesn't show website as one that would be a problem and the docs on Cite web, or this CS1 error needs to be disabled.Naraht (talk) 21:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC)</nowiki>— Preceding unsigned comment added by Naraht (talk • contribs) 19:45, 22 February 2016
- In the doc for the templates, the description of
|website=says "title of the website". I don't see how that could be interpreted as URL. - Of the multiple occurrences of
|website=in the Examples section, none show a URL. - The error shows
|website=as the problem parameter. - The error description lists several problem parameters and says "or any of their aliases". The doc shows that
|website=is an alias of|work=, which is one of the parameters listed in the error description.
That's adequate in my opinion. Any more would be unwarranted instruction creep, and people do need to learn to use the doc that's available to them. ―Mandruss ☎ 21:50, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
- I've calmed down now. I agree that the docs are as good as they could be, but it is still a fairly likely mistake. Any ideas that may help?Naraht (talk) 15:25, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
- I've added the aliases to Help:CS1 errors#External link in |<param>=. This is about users who don't read the template documentation, but adapt existing examples and are then confused by error messages. The first documentation they encounter is a subsection of Help:CS1 errors that is linked from the error. Kanguole 15:54, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
Status of filtering square brackets in URLs
Are we planning to handle brackets in URLs? I found an article (at redirect "EAPPI") where the "url=" contains sets of single brackets ("[...]") and should be encoded by a Lua filter (as '%7b' and '%7d' values?). Apparently those are very rare inside a URL, but they should be filtered by the Lua module, some day. This problem goes back 15 years due to the poor design of the MediaWiki markup language which should have used 2-character tokens to denote an external URL link, such as with both angle+square brackets, "<[http:...]>" rather than just single brackets "[http...]" as now unable to include each ']' inside a URL address. Anyway, 15 years later, now the cite templates should handle "[...]" inside each URL parameter. -Wikid77 (talk) 11:37, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- Technically, unencoded single brackets are actually forbidden in the path part of a URL according to the URL specification. Of course, in practice anything is allowed provided that browsers and servers support it. Wikipedia also have issues with angle brackets ("<", ">") breaking urls. There might be other examples too. Dragons flight (talk) 12:39, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- The embedded brackets "[...]" are so rare, it can wait to be handled, along with other URL characters. -Wikid77 (talk) 14:00, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- Forbidden in the path part yes, but I think that they are legal in the query string. When used there they will still break the MediaWiki parsing: I have come across examples of such use in the past, occasionally when somebody posts to VPT with "why doesn't my URL work?". --Redrose64 (talk) 21:53, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
- The embedded brackets "[...]" are so rare, it can wait to be handled, along with other URL characters. -Wikid77 (talk) 14:00, 27 January 2016 (UTC)
Here's an example of a URL containing square brackets (from Pass Me By (R5 song)) that does not render correctly:
| Wikitext | {{cite web
|
|---|---|
| Live | "R5 Performs Pass Me By, Loud [Morning Show Toronto] 8/26/13". Muzikkitabi. 2012-09-08. Retrieved 2012-09-13. |
| Sandbox | "R5 Performs Pass Me By, Loud [Morning Show Toronto] 8/26/13". Muzikkitabi. 2012-09-08. Retrieved 2012-09-13. |
We should probably do something to either render this reasonably or flag it as an error. – Jonesey95 (talk) 03:41, 10 February 2016 (UTC)
- Following up on a comment at Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Update to the live cs1|2 modules weekend of 20–21 February 2016:
- For a very long time, the template docs have advised editors to percent-encode certain characters when they occur in a url; see Template:Cite_book#URL for the list. :Characters allowed in the various parts of a url are defined in Uniform Resource Identifier (URI): Generic Syntax. Essentially, the characters defined in the table at Template:Cite_book#URL must be percent-encoded when used in the path portion of a url (not allowed in the scheme and domain parts).
- That leaves us three options:
- ignore the content and make up of the url path – this is what we do now
- detect the presence of these characters in the url path and then emit an error message
- detect the presence of these characters in the url path and then percent encode them
- What do?
- —Trappist the monk (talk) 18:31, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
- I think option 1 is not good, since the citation renders quite poorly.
- We have been encouraged many times on this page to pursue option 3, i.e. be permissive in what we accept, even if it is technically invalid. Our historical practice in most cases has been option 2, detect input that does not comply with guidelines and emit an error messages, letting human editors fix the errors.
- If option 3 (reliably detect and replace) is technically feasible, I recommend it. If not, option 2 (emit an error message). – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
- I'll explore the latter two options after the next update.
- —Trappist the monk (talk) 16:29, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
- I too would prefer option 3. The FAQ database on various Konica Minolta web sites is another example of urls containing square brackets (see f.e. http://www.konicaminoltasupport.com/index.php?id=4569&L=2 ).
- --Matthiaspaul (talk) 21:03, 15 February 2016 (UTC)
- If option 3 (reliably detect and replace) is technically feasible, I recommend it. If not, option 2 (emit an error message). – Jonesey95 (talk) 23:54, 14 February 2016 (UTC)
I've added a bit of code to external_link() so that square brackets occurring in the path portion of a url are percent encoded.
| Wikitext | {{cite web
|
|---|---|
| Live | "Was ist die Zonenwahl-Funktion?" [What is the Zone Matching function?] (in German). |
| Sandbox | "Was ist die Zonenwahl-Funktion?" [What is the Zone Matching function?] (in German). |
Because the module creates a label from |url= when |title= is missing or empty, the label it creates is not encoded:
| Wikitext | {{cite web
|
|---|---|
| Live | (in German) http://www.konicaminoltasupport.com/index.php?id=4569&tx_faqmanager_pi1[question]=3640&tx_faqmanager_pi1[product]=136&tx_faqmanager_pi1[producttype]=10&tx_faqmanager_pi1[category]=&L=2. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
|
| Sandbox | (in German) http://www.konicaminoltasupport.com/index.php?id=4569&tx_faqmanager_pi1[question]=3640&tx_faqmanager_pi1[product]=136&tx_faqmanager_pi1[producttype]=10&tx_faqmanager_pi1[category]=&L=2. {{cite web}}: Missing or empty |title= (help)
|
—Trappist the monk (talk) 13:13, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
- Looks good to me. – Jonesey95 (talk) 14:56, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks. --Matthiaspaul (talk) 00:51, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
Template {{Cite episode}} undocumented parameter / error
In researching the answer to the query above, I discovered that the |city= parameter in this template doesn't seem to function, nor is it documented. Would someone investigate, please?
—D'Ranged 1 VTalk 23:56, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
This comparison is the current Lua version against the last {{citation/core}} version:
| Wikitext | {{cite episode
|
|---|---|
| Live | Hitchcock, Alfred (April 14, 1958). "What Mary Knew". Alfred Hitchcock Presents. Episode 311. NBC. WMAQ. Mary had a secret. {{cite episode}}: Unknown parameter |city= ignored (|location= suggested) (help)
|
| Sandbox | Hitchcock, Alfred (April 14, 1958). "What Mary Knew". Alfred Hitchcock Presents. Episode 311. NBC. WMAQ. Mary had a secret. {{cite episode}}: Unknown parameter |city= ignored (|location= suggested) (help)
|
|city= was removed from {{cite episode}} with this edit; three years before the Lua conversion.
—Trappist the monk (talk) 01:20, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
- I've edited the documentation to reflect the deletion. The parameter no longer appears in the documentation. Is this template part of any tools that you know of that need to be checked?
- —D'Ranged 1 VTalk 01:34, 24 February 2016 (UTC)