Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 384

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user notification

Hello, I'm wondering about what happens when I type user:username. If I place the user name in brackets on someone's talk page, I understand that user will be notified on the messages alert next to the username in the top center left of the screen. If I use the bracketed user:username somewhere else does it also notify the user? When should I include the syntax "u s e r :" in front of the user's name, and when is this not necessary, and finally what is the difference between using the "ping" command vs. just including the username in brackets with the user: preface? ``Cityside189 (talk) 14:00, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Cityside189
"A number of templates are used for this - {{U}} , {{ping}}, and {{reply to}} - will all trigger notifications. Plain links to user pages will also work: [[User:Example|]]."
For the full explanation please see Wikipedia:Notifications#Triggering events - but please note these do not work for IPs only registered accounts, and you must sign the post containing the notification when it is first saved, it does not work if you forget and go back and sign it later. - Arjayay (talk) 14:55, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cityside189: as a caveat , those will all trigger notifications if used within the technical specifications. The username has to be spelled exactly as the actual user's name (correct spacing and caps) AND the template is saved in the same save as a fresh signature. If you misspell and save, it will not ping. If you go back and correct the spelling and do not add a fresh signature, it will not ping. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 15:30, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Cityside189: There is no reason to use it when you post to a user's own talk page. An edit to their talk page already gives a bigger notification. The basic form is user:username ("user" is case insensitive), but it can be added by a template instead of directly. The English Wikipedia has many templates which does this, for example {{ping|username}}. If you use square wikilink brackets and not a template then "user:" must always be included. Templates for the purpose add "user:" so it must be omitted when those templates are used. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:38, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for all the replies. So just making an any sort of edit on their talk page notifies that user. FWIW, my observation is that the number of keystrokes required to notify a user is the same in [[user:username]] vs. {{ping|username}}. Is there a common courtesy or civility that would suggest the use of the former vs. the latter? --Cityside189 (talk) 17:09, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

I don't think it's a civility or etiquette issue at all, but is just dependent on what makes sense in the context, what is convenient, and of course what a user is accustomed to. Note that the ping template's output is not the same as just using a linked username (though {{U|name}} is), so the number of keystrokes comparison may not be applicable. If I wanted to start this post with "hi Cityside189"... and ping you at the same time by linking "Cityside189" to your userpage it would not make sense to use the {{ping}}/{{reply to}}/etc. template because it formats as @Cityside189, and "hi at Cityside189" does not parse.

So I would use "hi [[User:Cityside189|Cityside189]]" instead. But I could alternatively use "hi {{U|Cityside189}}", and that would save me the time of typing out "[[User:Cityside189|Cityside189]]" even though the result is identical (at least in read mode). On the other hand, there's often no need whatever for me to actually type that, because I can just copy the userpage link code from your signature if I'm responding to a pre-existing post (and the person has a compliant signature code); copy and paste is actually much faster than typing anything, at least for me. Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 20:44, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Imagemap

Hey guys, I need help figuring out how to use an imagemap, specifically, this one. The size of each box is either too big, too small, or is't centered in the right place. I really need help on this. By the way, does it matter if I shrink or stretch it, or does it just use the original dimensions?

Appreciate it, thanks! Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 20:36, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Hi Dunkleosteus77. mw:Extension:ImageMap lists graphic tools which can help but I don't know them and this was a simple 3x3 grid of a 1024x768 image so I just divided the sides by 3 to hit the whole photos, and made this by hand:

It uses the original dimensions of the image so you can change the size. I only made one wide rectangle for the photo with two killer whales. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:08, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your help. I appreciate it! Dunkleosteus77 ^{(push to talk)} 22:35, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Questions regarding notability and referencing

Hi!

So I was making an infobox earlier for the Algerian National Office of Statistics and while entering the name of the minister, I found that it is a redlink. Now, I understand how the current minister would be considered noteworthy enough to create (at the very least) a stub page about him, but what about the previous ministers? I noticed that the Ministry of Finance page is also missing an infobox and I was thinking of making one, looking at similar governmental agencies for other countries I find that some of the infoboxes contain the names of previous ministers/the inaugural minister. If that minister doesn't have a page already, is s/he considered noteworthy enough for me to create a stub article (at least) about him/her?

Also, the same question would be regarding the Managing Director of the National Office of Statistics, his name is a redlink as well. Should I fix this by creating a page about him or simply remove the link?

With regards to the incumbent Minister of Finance, would the CV published by the Ministry on its website count as a reliable general reference for his article? What about his picture, can I use a picture published by the Ministry - is it considered public domain? How do I find out if it is public domain?

Browsing the NOS website I came across an Excel document with recent statistics on Algeria, how do I use this as a reference to update the numbers relevant articles? I read on the website itself that the statistics issued by the Office are considered in the public domain (need to verify these by double-checking the French, I used a quick translation tool to go through the site).

Thanks in advance, and sorry for the wall of text! RubyALG (talk) 03:44, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

• The National Office of Statistics does not appear to be really a ministry in the usual sense, but a subdivision of the Ministry of Finance. The Minister of Finance would be notable; the head of a subdivision of the ministry of Finance would usually not be, unless there are other bases for notability. The most likely for a political figure is having been a member of the country's legislature. DGG ( talk ) 16:26, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

DGG, thank you for your answer! Actually I meant that when I was adding the name of the Minister of Finance to the NOS infobox, I found that his name was a redlink, he seems to have been appointed within the last couple of years, and nobody had updated the info on Wikipedia. The NOS is under the MoF but it's independent in terms of location and leadership. I will look further into the background of the director to figure out if he's notable in any other way.

What about the previous Ministers of Finance - those who aren't on Wikipedia? Are they still considered notable enough to have their own pages, or since they're no longer in their posts, they're not that notable?

Can you answer my concerns regarding referencing the CV, pictures from the Ministry's site, and the Excel document I got from NOS, as well? Thanks again! RubyALG (talk) 19:01, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, our practice is that every holder of a government ministry or head of department in every country in the world is an appropriate topic for an article. It's not a matter of policy, but of practice. A useful summary of practice as determined by consensus over many AfDs is at WP:COMMON; on this point it says: "Elected and appointed political figures at the national cabinet level are generally regarded as notable, as are usually those at the major sub-national level (US state, Canadian province, Japanese prefecture, etc.). Sub-cabinet officials (assistant secretary, commissioner, etc.) are usually considered notable, especially if they have had otherwise notable careers." The first sentence is true; I think the second sentence is not actually our practice, and the proper wording of what we do is "sometimes" not "usually". For Government Ministers in countries or which we have extensive easily accessible sources, there's usually no difficulty in meeting the GNG for cabinet officers. But for those where nobody has done the work to find it, and all we really have so far is the name and the dates, they might as well remain redlinks. DGG ( talk ) 20:58, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

DGG, thanks again! So I'm planning on creating an article for the incumbent Minister of Finance first, and then moving on to fill in any gaps in the previous ministers. Can I use the CV published by the Ministry of Finance as a basis for my article? Or would it be considered a not-neutral source? RubyALG (talk) 19:04, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Yes, thats the usual way we make suchy articles. But it would help enormously if you also found a newspaper article or two on each appointment. DGG ( talk ) 00:50, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

My first article submission declined 2 times... plz help!

I attempted to write my first article on a guitar player that I really admire, but it's been rejected two times already. First time because there were no proper footnotes, and second time because of unreliable sources. The thing is that the main sources I've used are independent 3rd party newspapers. Here's the article, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Angel_%22Pato%22_Garc%C3%ADa Please help me! Highfifan (talk) 21:35, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

@Highfifan: Have you read the basic criteria for a stand alone article? There is a three prong requirement, not just that someone is mentioned in a reliable source, but that there is significant coverage of the subject in that source (which is not related to the source). simply working with someone famous is not enough. You might also find something in the special criteria for WP:ARTISTs -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:10, 3 September 2015 (UTC)

@TheRedPenOfDoom:This reminds me: I believe the individual members of The Donnas aren't notable enough to merit their own articles. How do I proceed? Dyspeptic skeptic (talk) 02:32, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

How to retain the wikipedia page I created for my client

I recently created a wikipedia page for my client. How to retain it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddharth_Balachandran

I am facing criteria for speedy deletion as message Muthukumargv1977 (talk) 05:41, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Read this Wikipedia:Notability (people). --112.79.37.141 (talk) 06:10, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, Muthukumargv1977. First of all, if the subject of the article you have written is your "client" as you have stated, then you are a paid editor, and Wikipedia's Terms of Service obligate you to declare your Conflict of interest more prominently than here at the Teahouse. I suggest that you declare that you are a paid editor on your user page, and remove the self promotional content. Secondly, the article is unreferenced and our Policy on biographies of living people requires that such biographies be referenced. Unreferenced BLPs must be deleted promptly. Third, you began the article with: "Siddharth, in his role as Managing Director of the Bumga Group, is responsible for strategy formulation and implementation, as well as continuous improvement of internal policies and expansion plans of the group. And that is not an easy job, considering that the Bumga Group is involved in different verticals of the building and construction sector." Those sentences are not encyclopedic and are not neutral, and are promotional marketing jargon that belong in a company brochure rather than a neutrally written encyclopedia article. Every single trace of this promotional puffery must be removed from this article and excluded from any future articles you write. Please read and study Your first article and follow all of its instructions. Cullen³²⁸ Let's discuss it 06:46, 5 September 2015 (UTC)

@Muthukumargv1977: While learning to edit Wikipedia-style is hard for most people, for people from the PR and marketing world it is nearly impossible as they are so used to fluffery, jargon and promotion in every bit of their day-to-day work that trying to write in accordance with Wikipedia's WP:NPOV policy is completely foreign reality. Its like trying to have a mathematician work without "1" or "x" . -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:39, 6 September 2015 (UTC)