Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Editor Retention/Archive 8

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This weeks EotW

Lugnuts is the honored recipient. Do stop by his talk to offer congratulations. As a community, we need to support our valued collaborators. ```Buster Seven Talk 15:28, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Soliloquies

Greetings. I've started working on Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Soliloquies with Buster7. If anyone wishes to join in, feel free to do so. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 00:39, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I like the idea, but I think they may end up giving a false view of why people leave. Most users who truly depart simply...depart. In my experience those with long-winded rationales about their reason for leaving are normally the adrenaline junkies who have got too involved in drama and will be silently back in a few weeks anyway. Ironholds (talk) 01:10, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I agree with Ironholds, and I think these soliloquies represent a minority of users. I think that many have stopped editing for rather routine reasons that have nothing to do with Wikipedia per se (i.e. they simply can't devote as much time to the project as they used to). New priorities like jobs, travel, school, and kids arise. Maybe there are some things to glean from this (perhaps reasons what kinds of situations compel people into taking wikibreaks), but I don't think it is helpful to place undue weight on these (only sometimes) parting words. Also, can we change the name to something else? Soliloquies seems excessively dramatic. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 01:23, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Indeed; I'm not saying there isn't value in them - I think there is. But at the same time, we should be careful to understand that it's not evidence we can wax on in isolation. Ironholds (talk) 02:05, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it's helpful to make a list of soliloquies, except maybe for historical interest, but even then, is it worth the editing time? Nothing alters the fact however, that some editors, even well respected admins, who leave with a soliloquy have expressed genuine feelings of discontent with other editors, their fellow admins, and the Foundation. Sometimes these things just need to be said and they are not all voiced by divaesque teenagers. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 03:46, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

I don't think I said anything about teenagers; divaesque behaviour can strike in all age groups. Certainly, some concerns that are written down are indeed genuine, but genuine and useful are distinct things. Ironholds (talk) 05:03, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• Suggest merge with the existing Wikipedia:WikiProject Editor Retention/Discovered reasons given for leaving Wikipedia page. Or a pointer from one to the other, and an explanation of how they're meant to differ. –Quiddity (talk) 04:24, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

Oliver, I don't think I said you did either. Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 06:43, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

• I quit Wikipedia some time ago, after a good number of content edits. I looked on here today to see how the celebrated website was doing, and found the above interesting. You are all still discussing. I had intended to write something about my unhappiness before I left, but did not get a chance, so I have added to the list for departure reasons now. And looking around the website again, yes, I made the right decision to quit. Not here anymore (talk) 11:50, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Rehoboam

Why are editors leaving? What can we learn from the negative example of Rehoboam (permanent link)?
—Wavelength (talk) 16:18, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Apparently, I am not on the same wavelength you are (sorry for the pun). Can you maybe tell us what you see as the problem there? Gtwfan52 (talk) 16:33, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

My questions are rhetorical, and the second one refers to Rehoboam (the king), and not to "Rehoboam" (the article)? Please see "Use–mention distinction".

—Wavelength (talk) 16:51, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Could you explain what insight we should be finding, within the biography of Rehoboam? (I too was completely confused initially, and thought you meant there was a talkpage dispute at that article. I now understand that you're using it as an analogical reference, but beyond that it is unclear. What aspect of the person/history are you referring to (his 18 wives and 60 concubines?!) ? What aspect of Wikipedia are you comparing it to? etc. Is there a clearer way to convey your thoughts, perhaps one that doesn't require comparisons to a controversial historical person?).

Are you trying to start a discussion on something in particular, or are you asking for links to prior research on "why editors leave" ? –Quiddity (talk) 17:35, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

Rehoboam ruled oppressively, causing many people to rebel and ten tribes to secede. It seems to me that administrators acting oppressively can cause editors to leave.

—Wavelength (talk) 18:03, 23 July 2013 (UTC)

If you had a specific idea that you believe contributes to why editors leave, it's not clear to me why this conversation started with "Why are editors leaving" instead of discussing the idea itself. Anyway, sure, many editors have argued that admins have made bad or otherwise controversial decisions that have resulted in editors feeling excluded. I'm not going to turn this thread into a "let's point fingers at specific admins," but I think it's safe to say this had probably happened. I think one way abusive admin actions are mitigated, or at least addressed, is through surveillance by users and other admins. This recent ANI thread notes a bad block that was undone and the admin apologized. Many editors and administrators participated. I'm not saying every case can be addressed this way, but that there are some mechanisms in place to prevent long-term harm here. I, Jethrobot ^{drop me a line} (note: not a bot!) 19:11, 23 July 2013 (UTC)