Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Backup Multithreading

Backup Multithreading

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Lacks WP:NOTABILITY. A piece of free software that has been downloaded fewer than 800 times, the main source on it is its own documentation. While the actual software title is simply "backup", making it ineffective to simply Google, searching for the article title or for the software author's name with "backup" finds no cites that would confer notability. Nat Gertler (talk) 15:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Keep This is not just a free software piece; it is part of the VB.NET education, much like Hello world program - DeVerm (talk) 18:00, 15 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

The Code Project has over 33,000 articles; if something's mere presence as part of their education program confers notability, we're in for a slew of articles. --Nat Gertler (talk) 18:12, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, but I did not state that being listed by the Code Project article is my reason, did I? You are now trying to say that this article is just like every article on the Code Project which is not the case; this article is about a VB.NET program that was made as a spin-off from a Code Project article --DeVerm (talk) 19:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

If you want to save this article, make an actual case to keep it. It is part of "the VB.NET education"? Which VB.NET education? So far, we have it as a rarely-downloaded piece of software on one website. Do you have some sources conveying notability? You compare it to "Hello world", but for that I can have gnews bring up hundreds of hits for the Hello World program. --Nat Gertler (talk) 20:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I don't have to make a case for saving this article; I only have to show that this AfD should be closed as a Keep because the reasoning in your AfD is flawed. I do understand how that happened because the article isn't GAN material... but an article that needs improvement is not an article that must be deleted. Renaming this article might well attract some new editors to work on it. I propose "Backup (VB.NET multithreading explained)" because it is about both the backup utility and multithreaded programming. Just like that Hello World is about both that program and the programming language in which it is implemented... explaining the syntax of the PL --DeVerm (talk) 04:25, 16 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

So your proposal is that we we make this article about two topics so that we can shoehorn in a topic with notability problems? That does not seem to fit in with Wikipedia structure. And no, the Hello world program article you linked to is not both about the program and explaining the syntax of any programming language. The article says that Hello World programs are used to explain the syntax, but the article itself does not explain the syntax of program languages. And the Hello world program does not have the notability problems that appear to be at play here. --Nat Gertler (talk) 06:54, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your interpretation of the Hello World article is not correct IMO. I read this:

Using this simple program as a basis, computer science principles or elements of a specific programming language can be explained to novice programmers. Experienced programmers learning new languages can also gain a lot of information about a given language's syntax and structure from a hello world program.

This is the opposite of what you claim it is --DeVerm (talk) 13:45, 16 July 2011 (UTC).[reply]

??? I say "The article says that Hello World programs are used to explain the syntax", you show the article saying just that, and use that to claim that it's the opposite of what I say it is? --Nat Gertler (talk) 13:54, 16 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I find your point about the number of downloads quite irrelavent in that the article is a classic example of multithreading coding in VB.NET using Object Oriented Programming. If your focus is emperical then consider the article has been viewed nearly 81,000 times. It teaches "multithreading" in VB.NET. Just like "hello world" but more advanced teaching on multithreading and VB.NET. The article is the subject, the Backup program is the by-product. And like most good definitions the article and subject teaching separates itself from more classic examples by the fact that it is demonstratable with a useful program called "Backup". This is absolutely essential when defining and teaching a concept like multithreading, OOP and VB.NET. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howartthou (talk • contribs) 22:50, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It seems there is a lack of clarity about what the subject of the Wikipedia article is supposed to be.

If the subject is multithread coding, then the article both needs to be retitled to reflect that, and much of the content will have to change, although the Code Project article might be used as a reference
If the subject is the Code Project article, then the Wikipedia entry should be renamed Multithreading Backup Utility (the name of the article) and be substantially rewritten (its introduction says its about a piece of software, and it uses an infobox appropriate for a piece of software rather than for a piece of prose. More vitally, we will need to establish its notability by citing significant third-party sources discussing the article, or noting its influence. The mere claim that the article has been read more than 80,000 times is not sufficient; if that's what it took, we'd end up with entries about every article in the New York Times.
If the subject is the software itself, then will need to establish its notability by citing significant third-party sources discussing the software.

I appreciate that you think the Code Project article is good and useful; that does not, however, bring it to the level of notability required of a Wikipedia article. (To quote WP:BK, "Notability" as used herein is not a reflection of a book's merit.)

--Nat Gertler (talk) 23:18, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete: No evidence of notability. --Carnildo (talk) 23:07, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your point about "the New Your Times" is a bit harsh. You should consider this is a specialised subject and that relatively speaking there are not that many VB.NET students or professionals in the world. I agree the entry could be renamed Multithreading Backup Utility and the introduction/empahisis revised. But your point about "Notability" also seems harsh, again you must consider the audience for this subject matter is limited and while the article may provide a useful example and definition I get the impression that unless something is popular it just ain't good enough for wiki. Can't say I agree with your poiny around popularity a.k.a. "Notability". — Preceding unsigned comment added by Howartthou (talk • contribs) 23:46, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you have a problem with the WP:NOTABILITY guideline, then I think that this particular deletion discussion is not the best place to raise it; it's one of the key guidelines in the English language Wikipedia, and your concerns about it should probably be raised at some more central location. --Nat Gertler (talk) 23:56, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Software-related deletion discussions. — —Tom Morris (talk) 19:21, 15 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. No evidence it passes WP:GNG. User:DeVerm is known for making WP:POINT-violating votes, and is again going it here. He should probably be banned from wasting administrator's time, but in the mean time, he should just be ignored. FuFoFuEd (talk) 03:46, 17 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]