Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Laurent Grech

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 15:58, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Laurent Grech

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LUGSTUB article with no credible assertion of a WP:NSPORTS pass.

Grech competed as the Olympics, but merely competing in the Olympics does not automatically indicate notability per WP:NSPORTS2022.
Grech competed in a team that won silver at the 1913 Paris gymnastics tournament (which was not officially the world tournament - this did not start until 1931). However, Grech does not inherit the notability of his team per WP:NTEAM.
The article refers to Grech receiving an "individual gold medal" at the 1913 tournament. However, as the source provided in the article explains, no individual medals were awarded in 1913. Individual scores (not medals) were retrospectively recognised after 1922. A retrospectively-recognised score years after the event cannot be an indicator of notability because it would not have attracted the kind of coverage that an actual award would have - instead it is just a statistical artefact. Nothing found in my WP:BEFORE. FOARP (talk) 12:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Olympics, and France. FOARP (talk) 12:47, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I have a question as I'm reading the sports guidelines I find
1. Owns a mark that placed the athlete in the top 12 in the world for that calendar year in a non-relay event contested or admitted to the senior IAAF World Championships or Olympics, or an equivalent performance over a closely matching imperial distance and Gretch was 6th does that make him notable enough? I am not 100% understanding of this yet
Scooby453w (talk) 13:02, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Grech was 6th in gymnastics all-round, not an athletics event. There were no world rankings as such at the time Grech was competing. FOARP (talk) 13:20, 29 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep: Per same rationale as Jules Lecoutre. Your opinion on the status of the 1913 World Artistic Gymnastics Championships is irrelevant; it is recognized by the sport's governing body, International Gymnastics Federation, as a world championship with placements. This can be viewed at the sport's 125th anniversary review here on page 63. Therefore, the subject without question passes WP:NGYMNAST, and as such is viewed as notable. GauchoDude (talk) 20:13, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
It was not recognised as such at the time, also per FIG (see p. 76 here). Wikipedia articles are not rewards that can be given by the International Gymnastics Federation. The link between medals and notability is based on the awarding of medals typically attracting coverage - but when scores are awarded decades later en masse, this link is broken. FOARP (talk) 07:36, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - No individual medal was awarded at that event, so there can be no presumption of coverage of that. Team medals specifically do not meet the additional criteria of NGYMNAST, so the subject does not meet NGMYNAST. Nor do we have any significant coverage in independent reliable secondary sources. As such this does not meet GNG/ANYBIO. Further, even if this did meet NGYMNAST (and again, it does not), all such articles must still have one independent reliable secondary source with significant coverage per WP:SPORTCRIT. What we need here are sources from which the page can be written, and we don't have any. Sirfurboy🏄 (talk) 20:42, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The subject does not meet NSPORT, which requires a source of IRS SIGCOV be cited in the article. Also, if the subject wasn't recognized as an individual medalist at the time of the event, there can be no presumption that further SIGCOV exists from contemporary media, therefore failing the rationale behind current NGYMNAST criteria. JoelleJay (talk) 23:22, 4 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Multiple sources of IR SIGCOV are required. 12:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)

Keep meeting WP:NGYMNAST with likely sources to exist. 95.98.65.177 (talk) 20:58, 5 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
IRS SIGCOV sourcing is required to be cited in the article now. Where is it? JoelleJay (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - People have been canvased in to this discussion by this non-neutral notice at the Gymnastics project. FOARP (talk) 13:33, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Copy/Paste from a separate AfD: I guess it's my turn. As others have noted, FOARP AfD'ed many articles targeted all under the same rationale which directly affected WikiProject Gymnastics. In an effort to have a centralized discussion, QuakerIlK included not just potential !keep votes, but those who had voted for deletion on the other conversations as well. It does not appear anyone new has since joined this AfD as a result. GauchoDude (talk) 17:21, 6 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Redirect to France at the 1920 Summer Olympics#Gymnastics where his name was mentioned. ⋆｡˚꒰ঌ Clara A. Djalim ໒꒱˚｡⋆ 12:35, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Sirfurboy; dearth of coverage falling short of passing either ANYBIO or the relevant SNG. (Or redirect if an ATD finds consensus, per Clariniie.) Fortuna, Imperatrix Mundi 13:04, 7 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.