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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Tom94022 (talk | contribs) at 20:36, 2 January 2023 (→Confusing and inconsistent nomenclature). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Template:Vital article

Computer Memory vs Mass Storage

I have an idea which I think could help the "Computer Storage - cleanup or merge" question:

Because this topic is really so broad,

1. have a main article on "COMPUTER STORAGE" which focusses on mass storage devices - including all forms of rotating media and all devices which are accessed <other than> via the CPU's address bus. That would include all magnetic and optical disk drives, all flash "drives", SD and CF cards etc as well as "tertiary" storage devices (which are rare). Mass storage devices are accessed by "external" busses such as ATA/IDE, SCSI, USB etc. and are typically accessed by block or sector but not by individual byte. Redirect "storage" to this article, but also redirect "primary storage" or "main storage" to the COMPUTER MEMORY article below.

2. have another main article on COMPUTER MEMORY which focusses on all forms of memory devices which are directly connected to the CPU's address bus and are therefore individually byte-addressable. That would include all types of RAM - static RAM, dynamic RAM, SDRAM, DDR RAM etc as well as the old magnetic core memory and even tube memory, and all types of ROM - PROM, EPROM, EEPROM etc. "Computer memory" should also include primary and secondary CPU cache memory. Redirect "memory", "RAM", "ROM" etc and "primary/main storage" to this article.


My reasons for this suggestion are:

a) the distinction between Memory and (Mass) Storage is fundamental to the architecture of any computer. Memory is what the CPU addresses via its address bus using memory read/write cycles at the internal CPU bus speed. Mass storage devices, by contrast, require relatively slow input/output cycles and interrupt calls to access them, via a variety of busses which are external to the CPU, not integral to it;

b) the concepts of "primary" and "secondary" storage blur the above clear distinctions and are less helpful in explaining the respective functions of the two;

c) I recognise that many operating systems also confuse and blur the distinction between memory and mass storage, by the use of "virtual memory" and the like on one hand, and "RAM disks" on the other. However this does not alter the fundamental differences noted above;

d) the often-quoted volatile/non-volatile definitions are not relevant to the distinction between memory and mass storage devices because they can each be both (lthough volatile mass storage is not very useful!). Indeed when large cheap non-volatile solid-state memory is available (which will probably happen within the next few years) the need for mechanical, rotating non-volatile mass storage devices (for example) will be eliminated. Mass storage devices will then also actually be memory (just as flash drives etc already are);

e) if consensus is reached on this suggestion I would be ready willing and able to start compiling the article on Computer Memory, about which I have some reference material as well as some experience and knowledge. I would also include a history of Computer Memory, going back to the vacuum tube memory of the mid 1940's, as well as the magnetic core memory of the 1950's and 60's.


I'm quite new around here, so I'm not sure about the procedure from here in. I've added this topic to my "watch" so I'll just wait and see what happens and hope that somebody will respond one day!

Regards

Now I've saved this page and I see my User Name didn't show up as I expected - I guess my login timed out while I was writing it - it took a while!

Anyway, my User Name is NevilleRaymond. It might show up now because I logged in again ....

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.246.16.187 07:36, 5 June 2006


My 2 Cents

I would also agree that that there is nothing that madates a computer to be electronic. I do not think that this should even be an article page for "Computer Storage" perhaps instead this should be called somethinge else like Digital Storage or more appropate ? Information Storage, there is even talk on this page about punch cards. How about Computer Storeage Therois and methods ? I came across this page when looking for places to physically put computers, and this page covers nothing of recommened enviromental seetings, humidity, ambient tempature, grounding practices, etc. What conditions must be required for accessing our computer storage in the attic from the basement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hoovie 23:05, 8 October 2006

I'd like to include a link to the Computer Storage Knowledge Center at Computerworld.com

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Bansipatel 16:01, 19 February 2007

Dedicated article on "overprovisioning"

Searching for "overprovisioning" currently leads to a disambiguous page, which has a link to this article. However, this article currently doesn't mention overprovisioning. Should "overprovisioning" be added to this article, or should it be a separate article? I think there is enough information about "overprovisioning" for creating a dedicated article about it. The article can be named "Overprovisioning (computer data storage)". The following is a list of some items that we can include:

  1. definition of overprovisioning in context of computer data storage
  2. benefits of overprovisioning for NAND flash
  3. history of overprovisioning being used, not prevalent in HDDs, but more prevalent in SSDs
  4. marketing and overprovisioning found in consumer SSDs, etc.
  5. general confusion with storage capacities
  6. lawsuits regarding actual vs available storage capacities

Please feel free to contribute! Somerandomuser (talk) 16:04, 21 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

My apology for editing your talk; it makes my response simpler and really didn't change anything. Tom94022 (talk) 00:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
FWIW I don't think overprovisioning is generic to computer data storage so perhaps removing the link from the disambiguation page is more appropriate. As you note in 2, 3 and 4 it is a term of the art in SSDs and NAND and could be in those articles, it is implied in link to Write amplification from Flash Memory. Items 4 and 5 are really not related to overprovisioning. So IMO probably a section in Flash Memory covering 1-4, with links to/from SSD, disambiguation page and Write Amplification would be appropriate but nothing seems appropriate to this article. Tom94022 (talk) 00:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
See: DEFINITION overprovisioning (SSD overprovisioning) -
  1. Overprovisioning, in a storage context, is the inclusion of extra storage capacity in a solid state drive (SSD). "
  2. In general, to provision is “to provide” or make something available. Historically, IT departments have overprovisioned IT infrastructure because systems had to be big enough to handle peak demand.
Tom94022 (talk) 01:32, 22 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]
I agree that this article is too general a place to have mention of overprovisioning, as is the integrated circuit article, the food article, etc. I've been bold and removed the Computer data storage link from the overprovisioning disambiguation page. --R. S. Shaw (talk) 20:27, 25 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Confusing and inconsistent nomenclature

The article seems to assume that primary storage is volatile, and delay lines certainly were. However, the 1950s and 1960s were dominated by nonvolatile primary storage, e.g., core memory, magnetic drum, magnetic rod, magnetic thin film.

Devices such magnetic tape drives served the role of secondary storage on early machines without disk storage, but on machines with disks they served a role closer to tertiary storage, although usually without an automatic tape library.

The 1960s and 1970s had several technologies that, while slower than disks, were faster than the 5–60 seconds in the description of tertiary storage. These included 

Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 14:48, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Your statement of history is quite accurate but I really don't see much of any such historical inaccuracies with the article, other than the misleading template which I removed. For example, the Primary storage section mentions delay lines, Williams tubes, rotating magnetic drums and cores. If you see any other inaccuracies, please either fix them or at least point to them. Tom94022 (talk) 18:03, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I'm thinking of text like Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage". Generally, the fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are referred to as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are referred to as "storage". In the 1950s through early 1970s, faster persistent technologies were referred to as both memory and storage, depending on the vendor and sometimes the device.
BTW, IBM still uses the word storage for primary storage, at least on z, and NCR used memory for secondary storage.. --Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 20:22, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
So why don't you fix it by changing it to something like
Today, fast volatile technologies (which lose data when off power) are typically used as "memory", while slower persistent technologies are used as "storage".
or some such lede summary sentence. I suggest the IBM and NCR examples are outliers not worthy of inclusion but if u want to work them into the article go ahead. Tom94022 (talk) 20:36, 2 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ "Model 70/568-11 Mass Storage Unit" (PDF). Random Access Device Series 70/500 (PDF). 70-06-500-1. RCA. November 1967. pp. 69–80. 70-06-500. Retrieved January 1, 2022.
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