Module talk:Lang-zh/Archive 5

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Cantonese Pinyin?

Hello, how does one indicate use of Cantonese Pinyin romanization? For example, in March Tian Boedihardjo (I assume this is Cantonese Pinyin). Λυδαcιτγ 06:11, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

I can’t find the Romanisation in any of the sources (though many are dead links). It seems unlikely it would be used, as in e.g. English media his Indonesian name is fine, and that seems to be what’s used. In Chinese media his Chinese name is all that’s needed.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 07:51, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

I’ve removed it. Seems it was changed from pinyin to this other Romanisation in this change several months ago, with no rationale by an IP editor. Neither it nor the pinyin was sourced that I can see, and as there’s no evidence he uses anything other than his Indonesian name there’s no need for it.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 11:05, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

CJKV

Like the various templates that have been merged into {{lang-zh}}, {{CJKV}} is a bit of a sprawling mess of template syntax right now. This module is currently focused on Chinese, but I wonder if we could generalize it to cover Japanese, Korean, and Vietnamese romanizations of Chinese characters as well, since there's already significant overlap between {{CJKV}} and this module. – Minh Nguyễn ^💬 20:54, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

How to display Traditional first, then Simplified, then Cantonese, then Mandarin?

At Verax (film) I want to display Traditional first, then Simplified, then Cantonese, then Mandarin. How may I do this?

Thanks, WhisperToMe (talk) 22:09, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

• WhisperToMe, you can use the parameter |first= with t,j. See Template:Lang-zh#Ordering.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 05:08, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Needs a parameter to stop changing labels to just "Chinese" if either |t= or |s= is missing

Many times we'll want to be specific. It should not be impossible to get "Traditional Chinese:" from {{zh|t=趙豐邦}}.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  03:00, 25 July 2018 (UTC)

SMcCandlish I disagree. If a sentence article contains just one sort of Chinese, whether simplified or traditional (and all Chinese is one or the other, perhaps both) then by far the most sensible article to link to is Chinese language. The vast majority of readers won’t notice or care which of traditional or simplified is used.

There are exceptions. If both simplified and traditional Chinese text is included then it makes sense to name and link to both articles at least once, and the template does this automatically. If a particular point is being made about it being traditional Chinese then the link should be incorporated into the text that is making that point.

But in normal usage it makes sense to work as it does. It’s worked like that for a very long time, from before I rewrote it to use Lua. If you really need to do it another way on a case by case basis then it’s probably best to do it manually, using e.g. {{lang}} which does not add any links.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 05:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

re-ping SMcCandlish as I messed it up first time.--JohnBlackburne^words_deeds 05:24, 14 August 2018 (UTC)

Hmm. "I disagree" followed by "There are exceptions" is contradictory. My statement that "it should not be impossible" to be specific, and your statement that there are exceptions to your Chinese language generality link idea, and that we should sometimes be specific, are directly equivalent statements. I'll approach this from a different angle: The only reason I have not simply fixed it is that I suck at Lua. If this were a regular template, I would have resolved this in a few minutes of editing in the template code, and I really don't think anyone would be objecting.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  16:43, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Template Data broken

I use the visual editor a lot and I realized in the past week the template data is broken. Has this been a problem for anyone else? --Daviddwd (talk) 19:28, 19 January 2019 (UTC)

Xiao'erjing

Having just noticed Xiao'erjing text in the lead to Taklamakan Desert, I wondered if it's worthwhile to add another argument to this module to allow something like |x=تَاكْلامَاقًا شَاموْ, which would then add Xiao'erjing: تَاكْلامَاقًا شَاموْ (so the equivalent of [[Xiao'erjing]]: {{lang|zh-Arab|تَاكْلامَاقًا شَاموْ}}) to the end of the output? — OwenBlacker (talk; please {{ping}} me in replies) 18:23, 15 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm in favor of this. --Daviddwd (talk) 19:57, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Requested change

This template displays double quotes with the parameter l=. Could this please be changed to single quotes per MOS:SINGLE and other language templates (e.g. {{lang-ar}}). Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 20:44, 16 December 2018 (UTC)

I support this. --Daviddwd (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

MOS:SINGLE

Resolved

The literal gloss (|l= parameter) needs to be bracketed in single not double quotations, per MOS:SINGLE.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  22:52, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

See #Requested change above. Just need someone competent to do it! Shhhnotsoloud (talk) 07:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion executed. On a more general note, the fact that this request took three months to get executed is exactly why I think there is far too much use of lua and go around TfDing modules. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 05:05, 22 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: I agree (though this particular request dates to this month; I think you were looking at a different tab). But discussing it here won't help, since this is a backwater. :-) I've raise a larger thread at TfD talk, as an RfC: Wikipedia talk:Templates for discussion#RfC: Proposal to make TfD more RM-like, as a clearinghouse of template discussions.
 — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:14, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@SMcCandlish: It was originally proposed at #Requested change in December. (I was exaggerating a little bit, it was only two months) {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 05:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Noted!  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:41, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Also pinging Shhhnotsoloud.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  05:15, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Pppery: You changed the opening quote but not the closing quote. Toohool (talk) 06:16, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

I noticed that and went to fix it but the module is cascade protected at the moment. Johnuniq (talk) 06:21, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Wouldn't an edit request template have resolved this more quickly? As you say, this is a backwater, but the edit request lists are watched by many competent editors. – Jonesey95 (talk) 07:22, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

@Jonesey95:  Not done: please make your requested changes to the module's sandbox first; see WP:TESTCASES. (seriously, an edit request template could easily have attracted someone responding with that boilerplate message) {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 20:32, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

Please edit this module to change line 185 from the first of the following lines to the second, per discussion just above.

val = "'" .. val .. '"'
val = "'" .. val .. "'"

This puts an apostrophe on both sides of val. Johnuniq (talk) 08:47, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

 Done —TheDJ (talk • contribs) 09:31, 27 February 2019 (UTC)

A problem with defaulting to simplified

The parameter c renders characters in the simplified typeface. This has resulted in inconsistencies for Taiwan, Hong Kong and Macau names. I propose that the parameter be removed or use be discouraged. Ythlev (talk) 14:31, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Parameter c= doesn't render anything, it only marks text as Chinese (zh). Which locale incl. typeface is selected for that purpose depends on your browser/​system settings. Love —LiliCharlie (talk) 16:56, 19 June 2019 (UTC)

Minor romanization formatting points

I've noticed when Peh-oe-ji or jyutping is provided, it uses fullwidth characters. Furthermore, |j= does not superscript the numbers included automatically as does Wade-Giles (|w=). Could we fix this? --Daviddwd (talk) 19:59, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

I have the same problem. The troublesome code seems to be this:

["cy"] = "yue",
["sl"] = "yue",
["poj"] = "nan",

which could be simply changed to

["cy"] = "yue-Latn",
["sl"] = "yue-Latn",
["poj"] = "nan-Latn",

Wikifresc (talk) 23:47, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Putting in an edit request for the above edit to be carried out, though it won't fix the issue with |j=. Romanisations should obviously be tagged as Latin script and rendered appropriately. —Nizolan ^(talk) 19:21, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

 Done — xaosflux ^Talk 13:38, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Jyutping

In addition to Wikifresc's proposed edit, and for the same reason, please edit "yue-jyutping" on line 57 to "yue-Latn-jyutping". This has also been added to the sandbox and fixes the fullwidth character issue Daviddwd identified (see Template:Lang-zh/testcases). —Nizolan ^(talk) 20:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

 Done — xaosflux ^Talk 13:38, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: Might be missing something but it doesn't look like you made any edits at Module:Zh—guessing this is a mistake. Reopening the requests for now. —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 19:36, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@Nizolan: very very odd, my commit must have failed, I even had my edit summary saved in my browser's autocomplete. Check now? — xaosflux ^Talk 20:23, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

@Xaosflux: Works great now, thanks. —Nizolan ^{(talk · c.)} 20:56, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Proposal to add Foochow Romanized (BUC)

Hello all. I am doing some work on the Matsu Islands and the Fuzhou area of Fujian Province, and I was wondering if we could add BUC to the module. Articles like Dongyin, Lienchiang have BUC written on the page with no blue link to the Foochow Romanized page, and I think it looks unprofessional (as well as uninformative). Thanks for any help or suggestions. Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:30, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

(Also, BUC is the form used on the Mìng-dĕ̤ng-ngṳ̄ Wikipedia ( https://cdo.wikipedia.org )- why exclude them?) Geographyinitiative (talk) 06:31, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

Requested move 29 October 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved (closed by non-admin page mover) DannyS712 (talk) 06:28, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

---

Module:Zh → Module:Lang-zh – Match name with template * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 22:10, 29 October 2019 (UTC)

• Support per nom. --Gonnym (talk) 14:00, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Proposal for "first=poj"

The first sentence of Hong-Gah Museum and Tamsui would be made better with 'first=poj'. Geographyinitiative (talk) 10:49, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

The romanization name "Cantonese Yale" is confusing

As someone who has some familiarity with Chinese Romanization systems, upon looking up "New Territories" I was confused by the phrase "Cantonese Yale", generated by the zh template. Upon examining the template definition, I find that "Cantonese Yale" is the phrase used to denote the Yale Romanization system. That phrase looks strange in English as it (1) inverts the usual English adjective-noun order (2) omits the word "Romanization".

Searching the internet outside of Wikipedia, I find that occurrence of the phrase "Cantonese Yale" to be vanishingly rare.

I suggest that the text produced by the zh template in response to "cy" as a template parameter be changed from "Cantonese Yale:" to simply "Yale:" or maybe "Yale romanization:"

I am not implementing this change myself at this time, but I request that someone familiar with the zh template please do so. Dratman (talk) 00:01, 3 February 2020 (UTC)

Template-protected edit request on 24 July 2020

Line 186: please change val = "'" .. val .. "'" to val = "{{'}}" .. val .. "{{'}}".

See Project 523 § Discovery of artemisinin and its derivatives as an example. In that section, placing '' around the template would be unnecessarily italicize the entire template-generated text, instead of just the value in the |l= parameter. As is, the '' in the template combine with the ' from this module to bold the title, which is unexpected behavior. If we could escape that character here, that would solve that problem without changing the behavior of the template elsewhere. Thanks! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 22:48, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

To editor Rotideypoc41352:  Not done: put that in the sandbox and all it does is place {{'}} in the template, as in (Chinese: 《肘後備急方》; lit.: {{'}}The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies{{'}}). Not sure how to fix this other than using only one apostrophe in the template, as in (Chinese: 《肘後備急方》; lit.: 'The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies' as I have done at Project 523 § Discovery of artemisinin and its derivatives. I'll keep checking back here to see if you have come up with something else. The sandbox can be used in "preview" to see if it works. P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 00:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

To editor Rotideypoc41352: Looking at this more closely, we find that the "literal translation" parameter, |l=, is used in the example you gave as follows:

l=The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies

That is a lower case letter "l", for "literal", not the number "1", by the way. When the |l= parameter is used, this module automatically links to lit. (literal translation) and encloses the text in single quotation marks, as in:

Chinese: 《肘後備急方》; lit. 'The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies'

For the most part, this is adequate to note the translation. As you have seen, problems arise when the translation is the title of a film or book, and it should be in italics. That is easily dealt with by adding a single quote mark (apostrophe) at the beginning and end of the text, as follows:

{{lang-zh|t=《肘後備急方》|l='The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies'}}

and results in:

Chinese: 《肘後備急方》; lit. 'The Handbook of Prescriptions for Emergencies'

That is the only way I know of to deal with such titles without mucking up the works for other uses where italics are not called for. Hope this helps! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. ^put'r there 06:14, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

It does! I was hoping for a less work-aroundy solution, but if that's how the cookie crumbles, that's how the cookie crumbles. Thanks again! Rotideypoc41352 (talk · contribs) 07:51, 27 July 2020 (UTC)