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Political Activism

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This page appears to be a form of political activism in favour of Scottish nationalism and indeed the SNP.
There’s no actual need for it - there are whole pages dedicated to opinion polling for Scottish parliament elections and Scottish independence.
There is even a subsection for Scotland in the UK articles, which is right and proper.
This desire for a new article is completely without merit, as is the addition of an SNP column to the UK wide polling page.
We need to root out this pro SNP activism. It should have no place on Wikipedia

92.20.135.189 (talk) 20:05, 15 March 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The article clearly demonstrates why there is a need for such an article. The political dynamics in Scotland are very different to those within the rest of the UK as can be clearly seen by the Voting Intentions, this is further reinforced by the target seats data. Having partial information buried deep in a huge article does not provide the profile that this should be receiving. As you correctly point out there are articles about Independence polling and polling for the Scottish election so why would there not be similar for this particular election? Pugpa2 (talk) 09:30, 9 April 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Inclusion of Sub-samples

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I think it is useful to have this article, so thanks to User:Pugpa2 for creating it - there is easily sufficient Scotland-only polling to justify it, adn the main UK article has become very large already, with the next election potentially still 4 years away. However I'm more than a bit uneasy about including the sub-sample data, as this smacks of Original Research, and is also potentially misleading. It's not simply a matter of sample size: sub-samples may not be correctly weighted for demographics etc. Grinner (talk) 09:25, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for that, I thought long and hard before including the subsets, what tipped my thinking was that every pollster listed accounts for a Scottish subset (so not convinced about original research) however I do take your point about being weighting and note that some of the subsets are only about 5% of UK total. I had thought about including two columns to show size of UK set and % of that which is Scottish subset as an indicator, but felt it might become a bit cumbersome. Pugpa2 (talk) 10:58, 25 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Target seats etc

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The information on target seats and MPs not seeking re-election belongs at Next United Kingdom general election in Scotland, as it isn't about polling per se - so I'm going to delete from this page as it is now over there. Grinner (talk) 14:03, 30 June 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Aye that makes sense Pugpa2 (talk) 10:57, 4 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Article name

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As per Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Article_titles this article ought to be named in Sentence case, with the example being Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election, ie either Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election in Scotland or Opinion polling in Scotland for the next United Kingdom general election. I'm not fussed which one we use, but the current title is not per the guideline (and is also missing a "the".) Grinner (talk) 08:16, 14 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the link, my reading of the "Manual of Style" is that it would not support your suggestion, it talks about
'A title should be a recognizable name or description of the topic, balancing the criteria of being natural, sufficiently precise, concise, and consistent with those of related articles' The current title does this well and as suggested it balances the 4 main characteristics, I also note that the main thrust of your suggestion is about consistency with related articles, I think that consideration is deliberately the fourth consideration and indicates that the others should be given more weight.
In summary I don't think your suggestion adds anything to the article or its Title Pugpa2 (talk) 09:02, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The wikipedia preference for Sentence case is quite clear and consistent throughout all articles. Also the current title is grammatically incorrent with a missing "the". How about Polling in Scotland for the next United Kingdom general election? Grinner (talk) 10:46, 16 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think we are in danger of disappearing down a rabbit hole here. Whereas I accept your point for sentences in the body of the article I don't think they apply as rigidly for Titles, where different guidance is available to cover them "Title case (capital case, headline style)
"The Quick Brown Fox Jumps over the Lazy Dog"
A mixed-case style with all words capitalised, except for certain subsets (particularly articles and short prepositions and conjunctions) defined by rules that are not universally standardised. The standardisation is only at the level of house styles and individual style manuals. (See further explanation below at § Headings and publication titles.)"
The title works well and I think we should leave it as it is. Pugpa2 (talk) 07:57, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but I'm going to have to keep going on this, please see the points below:
Titles are written in sentence case. The initial letter of a title is almost always capitalized by default; otherwise, words are not capitalized unless they would be so in running text. When this is done, the title is simple to link to in other articles: Northwestern University offers more graduate work than a typical liberal arts college. Note that the capitalization of the initial letter is ignored in links. For initial lowercase letters, as in eBay, see the technical restrictions page. For more guidance, see WP:Naming conventions (capitalization) and WP:Manual of Style/Proper names.

Also see Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(capitalization) 

Do not capitalize the second or subsequent words in an article title, unless the title is a proper name. For multiword page titles, one should leave the second and subsequent words in lowercase unless the title phrase is a proper name that would always occur capitalized, even mid-sentence.
  • The title is missing a "the". Read it out loud - it's just not grammatically correct without a "the" between "for" and "next".

Grinner (talk) 09:38, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I think we have reached an impasse that really seems to boil down to which part of guidance you give most weight to. The title works fine just let it be. Pugpa2 (talk) 10:24, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 17 July 2025

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The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There was a strong consensus in favor of the proposed title. (closed by non-admin page mover) – 🌻 Hilst (talk | contribs) 13:55, 1 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Polling in Scotland for Next United Kingdom General Election → Opinion polling in Scotland for the next United Kingdom general election – The current name is not inline with policy as it is not in sentence case, and grammatically incorrect as it is missing a "the" between "for" and "next". However I have not been able to gain consenus for this move, hence I am nominating this move here. Grinner (talk) 10:41, 17 July 2025 (UTC) — Relisting. – MrAussieGuy (Talk) 06:01, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose
Article title is consistent with style guidance for article naming that they be
A good Wikipedia article title has the five following characteristics:
  • Recognizability – The title is a name or description of the subject that someone familiar with, although not necessarily an expert in, the subject area will recognize.
  • Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English.
  • Precision – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects. (See § Precision and disambiguation, below.)
  • Concision – The title is not longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. (See § Concision, below.)
  • Consistency – The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles. Many of these patterns are listed (and linked) as topic-specific naming conventions on article titles, in the box above. (See § Consistency, below.)
The existing title matches these well, the guide then goes on
These should be seen as goals, not as rules. For most topics, there is a simple and obvious title that meets these goals satisfactorily. If so, use it as a straightforward choice. However, in some cases the choice is not so obvious. It may be necessary to favor one or more of these goals over the others. This is done by consensus. For instance, the recognizable, natural, and concise title United Kingdom is preferred over the more precise title United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. (For more details, see § Use commonly recognizable names, below.)
Again existing title matches these very well, lastly the guide says
When titling articles in specific fields, or with respect to particular problems, there is often previous consensus that can be used as a precedent. Look to the guideline pages referenced. When no previous consensus exists, a new consensus is established through discussion, with the above questions in mind. The choice of article titles should put the interests of readers before those of editors, and those of a general audience before those of specialists.
I genuinely struggle to understand what the advantages are to the reader of this proposal, either in understanding or searchability, basically it seems about 2 words, 'Opinion' and 'the', Polling v Opinion Polling and Next v the next I think that readers will understand Polling just fine, extra words do not add anything, 'the', seriously? again adding nothing to readers comprehension of the subject matter.
The title is fine now leave it alone Pugpa2 (talk) 16:53, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The existing title fails majorly on "naturalness" with the missing "the"! Seriously, the very first line in the article itself includes a "the", because that is the natural way to write/speak: we always refer to the next general election. I'm happy to remove the "opinion" before "polling" if you like though. Grinner (talk) 17:40, 17 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I do not appear to be winning over much support, so will go with 'the' if that is sufficient Pugpa2 (talk) 09:07, 19 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Pugpa2 I think it is seen as preferable to include "opinion" because "polls" can (in some jurisdictions) also refer to the actual vote itself, or the locations at which votes are cast. So opinion polls better explains the scope that these articles cover.
also, I think rather than break with consistency, it would be best to propose (on the elections and referendums wikiproject talk page) a RFC about changing the way these articles are titled, or naming them different for a specific jurisdiction if particular unique reason exists SecretName101 (talk) 05:58, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
On consistency particularly the current title badly fails. Should the main Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election be renamed to "Polling for Next UK General Election"? The titles should be consistent, and any wider change to the titles of opinion polling articles in general would have to be agreed on elsewhere. In the absence of that I think the current title change should go ahead.
I'll link to the main page on article titles that the above user has copied in. Eastwood Park and strabane (talk) 10:54, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
and what about the other 4 criteria? Consistency, as I have said is the fifth element mentioned, it is reasonable to assume that the other 4 should be taking at least as much weight. Remember these are goals not rules and balance is the aim.
How about "Polling for the Next UK General Election" Pugpa2 (talk) 15:57, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Support as it would match the title with the title style used for other similar articles. Keep old name as redirect, as per usual. SecretName101 (talk) 05:55, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per above, particularly Ham II and Eastwood Park and strabane. Also open to merging into a sub-national article in line with the previous election (as this article would largely be covered in another "next UK election in Scotland" article. DankJae 20:36, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    • Oppose The idea of merging into another article, this was not the original RFC.
    Article was accepted for publishing on the 25th of June 2025, it was noted as having sufficient note to merit its own article. Part of the reason was that the topic does not get sufficient prominence as a subsection largely buried in a much bigger UK wide article, and thereby not giving due prominence to the very different political dynamics in Scotland. Pugpa2 (talk) 21:06, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    Merely stated my openness to it. But the main focus here is the name. A merge discussion can happen later down the line, following existing precedent. DankJae 23:38, 20 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Suggestion

'Polling' is an acceptable description, most people and most media would use the word Polling rather than 'Opinion Polling' This is consistent with style guidance for Titles in terms of Naturalness, Precision and Concise 'United Kingdom' adds length to the title without adding any new information that would not be conveyed just as well by 'UK' again it is concise, natural and highly recognisable. Even the government refers to itself as UK government, as do most letter heads and departments of Government. Suggest if we have to change title lets do so and hit as many of the requirements as we can and not labour consistency as only requirement. Polling in Scotland for the Next UK General Election would be a title that satisfies more of the style guidance requirements than any so far raised — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pugpa2 (talk • contribs) 14:52, 24 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

See Category:Opinion polling for elections, almost all of them use "opinion polling" (with no one polling article), no reason why Scottish polling is suddenly different from the rest of the world, or from Opinion polling for the 2024 United Kingdom general election nor from other Scotland articles like Opinion polling on Scottish independence or Opinion polling for the next Scottish Parliament election. These are all descriptive titles, not proper names, so better be WP:CONSISTENT, and apply WP:NCCAPS (so "next", "general" and "election" have to be in lower case). Changes to whether to use just "Polling", "UK" or capitalised more words may be best for a wider discussion then just this one article. DankJae 19:37, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
That's interesting, so a category entitled Opinion Polling contains largely articles that are called Opinion polling? not too surprising really.
Perhaps we need to look a bit wider than Wikipedia and actually check what people use to actually find the article, so did a google trend comparing the use of the words "Opinion Polling" and " Polling" in the UK, it would appear that people are far more likely to use Polling, granted it does seem to arrive in waves, which I suspect are points of interest such as elections. At those points Polling is used to search by most people and by a long way.
So why not help people to find the article by keeping the name they are more likely to search for?
https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%205-y&geo=GB&q=opinion%20polling,polling Pugpa2 (talk) 11:15, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
In terms of finding the article, whatever name we do settle on we can of course set up redirects as required. So anyone searching anything reasonably likely will automatically be redirected here. Grinner (talk) 15:30, 30 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I think you may have missed my point which was about people searching outwith Wikipedia as I suspect most people do. Pugpa2 (talk) 08:54, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
If you search a major search engine for "polling for next UK election", you still get the correct Opinion polling for the next United Kingdom general election article, opinion polling still contains the word "polling" for search purposes. Eastwood Park and strabane (talk) 09:44, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The question was Polling or Opinion polling, I suggest you that your example is almost self fulfilling seeing how it searches for 5 words all of which are contained in tile of UK article. Interestingly you do seem to make one of my points for me that UK and United Kingdom are interchangeable, using UK would certainly help to shorten the title. Pugpa2 (talk) 10:01, 31 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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