View source for User talk:Patrick87

== Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DVBViewer (2nd nomination) ==

Since you recently participated at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DVBViewer]], I'm notifying you that [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/DVBViewer (2nd nomination)]] has been opened. --''[[User:Philosopher|Philosopher]]''&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Philosopher|Let us reason together.]]</sup> 19:22, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

==  DVBViewer ==

Hey! I just was your comments at my talk page. Although Hu12 is not quite right in his constant assumption that you are a sockpuppet, s/he may have his/her reasons to delete the article. The problem is that several other users have good reasons to keep it. That's why i closed the past AFD with a "no consensus" rationale. I considr that, as you original comments cane be seen at the first AFD, there is no need for you to re-vote at the second nomination. Anything else, you can ask me at my talk page. Regards. — [[User:Hahc21|<span style="color:#333333;">'''ΛΧΣ'''</span>]][[User_talk:Hahc21|<span style="color:#336699;">'''21'''™</span>]] 22:39, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
:As I expected and knew, the deletion discussion was closed by Mark as no consensus. Regards. — [[User:Hahc21|<span style="color:#333333;">'''ΛΧΣ'''</span>]][[User_talk:Hahc21|<span style="color:#336699;">'''21'''™</span>]] 20:56, 24 August 2012 (UTC)

==In response to your [[Special:FeedbackDashboard/45904|feedback]]==

<span id="feedback-dashboard-response-12771"></span>
Das liegt wohl im Auge des Betrachters; das procedere in der en-wikipedia ist, insbesondere im Hinblick auf Löschanträge, ein vollkommen anderes. Un die admins hier sind eigentlich ziemlich neutral, so dass eigentlich die Argumente zählen müssten. Bei der jetzigen Diskussion sehe ich wieder ein "no consensus" Ergebnis.

[[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 12:27, 24 August 2012 (UTC)
<span class="markashelpful-mbresponse-12771">&#160;</span>

== For you! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Design Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Design Barnstar.png|75px]]}}

|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Graphic Designer's Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your great work on signatures of U.S. military leaders —[[User:Ed!|<span style="color:black;">'''Ed!'''</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Ed!|<span style="color:black;">'''(talk)'''</span>]]</sup> 02:05, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
|}

Thanks! My first barnstar after all. :) -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 09:25, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

== Pdf Source ==

Pdf source for image was found {{File:TMB new logo.png}} [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 14:45, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
:Sorry, I'm not able to find a link of it. Where should the PDF be located? -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 18:14, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
::Link http://recruitmentandresultsandjobs.blogspot.in/2012/11/tmb-recruitment-of-clerks-2012-13.html [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 13:55, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
:::Either I'm blind or there's no [[PDF]] document on this page... -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 15:16, 12 April 2013 (UTC)
::::sorry my mistake  what can i do now there is no pdf Document [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 12:50, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::You could hope for somebody doing the logo by hand (e.g. by identifying the used font and recreating as SVG with this info). Or ask the company to submit you a vector version for usage in Wikipedia (in this case it would be best to ask for an [[WP:OTRS]] message at the same time). -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 19:02, 13 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::I got a PDF file with Logo link http://www.tmb.in/press/bs_dec_2012_01.pdf [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 17:17, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::Sorry, but this PDF only contains an embedded raster graphics (you can see it when zooming in very far) -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 19:46, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
::::::::I think this pdf is slightly better http://www.tmb.in/press/bs_jun_2012_01.pdf [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 10:34, 15 April 2013 (UTC)
:::::::::It's only a raster graphics nonetheless. However it can be extracted from the PDF to improve the PNG version. -- [[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 10:58, 15 April 2013 (UTC)

== hello  ==

Got it Thanks [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 12:41, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

== Bad-faith accusations ==

Patrick, your recent comments about Flow have come off as accusations of bad faith. Statements like "And Brandon achieved what he intended: No one worries anymore up to the day FLOW is due and editors recognize [it] didn't work as expected" for example come off as basically accusations that Brandon is looking to deliberately deceive and confuse the community. Let me be clear on two points.

Point 1; if we wanted to deliberately deceive and confuse the community, here's how we ''wouldn't'' go about it. We wouldn't host all our documentation publicly and deliberately point users to it. We wouldn't have a series of wide-ranging conversations, on multiple projects, with many of them despite nobody but Brandon formally working on Flow at the moment. We wouldn't have people like Brandon persist in communicating with those users even when some of them take every reply as an opportunity to kick staffers hard in the ribs. What we'd do is go off for 6-12 months and build the software and then just ''deploy it''.

Given that the list of things-that-we-wouldn't-do-if-we-wanted-to-deceive is precisely what we have done...we're not trying to deceive anyone. It's utterly, gratuitously offensive for you to suggest otherwise.

Point 2; do you think accusations like that add to the conversation? Do they make the person you're talking to more or less likely to listen to you and take your issues into account? Because as someone dealing with them, I'm far less enthused to pay attention to your issues than I would be if you were someone who approached situations politely, with an explanation of what was a problem and why rather than accusations that we were ruining Wikipedia and trying to do it under the radar to boot. Making statements like this leads to your commentary overall ''being less useful''. I appreciate it's a great way to blow off steam, but it kills the efficacy of what you're trying to achieve. Following the principle of [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] - the same as you're expected to do for anyone else with an account - is not too much to ask, and might actually help you come across as someone who should be listened to.

I'm not sure if you're the same with other volunteers as you are with staffers; I'm also not sure what I want the answer to that to be. It's not fair and totally outside the principles and policies of the wiki for you to take your attitude with everyone, but then it'd also be pretty unfair for you to penalise staffers. Either way, cut it out. Approach this situation and future situations with good faith. People are more likely to listen if you do. [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 14:18, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

:I don't know if you actually expect an answer but I'll write one anyway to put some things right.

:Regarding Point 1: If that's really how you understood my comments I'm sorry. It wasn't meant that negative. I have the feeling however that you and Brandon already know there are some "hot issues" where you could easily burn yourself if not careful. Instead of talking even more open about those issues you seem to try to keep the discussion as calm as possible, e.g. Brandon always pointing out FLOW was only meant to be deployed on user talk pages in "phase 1". It doesn't matter to me what's planned in phase 1, but what will be coming in the long run. To me this looks like some way to make people more comfortable with some problems, hoping those problems will settle themselves with time. I'm afraid they will not, therefore I was trying (probably too hard) to push the discussions into a direction were you had to answer those questions instead of getting through with some faint and vague arguments.

:Regarding Point 2: No, and actually I'd write some things differently today as I wrote them. The problem was that I allowed myself to get involved too deeply into the discussion and got too emotional in the process. I'm sorry for that, but maybe it shows how important the thing is to me and that it really upset me in the first place. It's still upsetting me now, but I already decided to calm down and try to keep a little more distance before you actually posted this on my userpage.

:One general thing that maybe complicates discussion between you and me is, that we're approaching the discussion from different ends. With community liaisons being one of your tasks you're probably trying to make everybody happy. Instead of a simple "no" you're trying to give people at least a tiny bit of satisfaction whenever possible. Personally I'm only interested in facts. I want to hear objective arguments and prefer a "no" (as long as it's based on a rock solid reason) over any attempts to please me with some "maybes".

:One last thing regarding your accusation in the last paragraph: Actually I think you're doing exactly what you told me ''not'' to do one paragraph above by personally attacking me in a very rude way. I hope that was one of the "actions not necessarily representing the WMF" since it wasn't very professional at all. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 17:09, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

::Can you point me to the accusation in question? So, in order; I don't think that's what Brandon's trying to do at all. There's a corollary from "Brandon is the only staffer assigned to this project", which is "he lacks bandwidth in some ways". We could totally start a big discussion about the hot button issues right now, but we don't have the time to follow it in as much detail as we need to and any decisions or changes made as a result wouldn't be immediately noticeable. What he's trying to do by appealing for calm, if I understand him, is say "we're not building it right now, this is just a draft plan and there will be a lot of time to amend it". Right now, with only one staffer assigned and with no code committed or concrete set of features requirements written up, it's probably not productive to suck in a load of volunteer time working through issues that may alter substantially once we try actually making it work. I'm very grateful for you recognising that you're perhaps too attached to the situation and could've handled it better; honestly, I think admitting that we're sometimes wrong is (as silly as it sounds) something a lot of us struggle with. So: thank you for being the bigger man, here :). [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 17:22, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

:::That was the part: ''"I'm not sure if you're the same with other volunteers as you are with staffers; I'm also not sure what I want the answer to that to be. It's not fair and totally outside the principles and policies of the wiki for you to take your attitude with everyone, but then it'd also be pretty unfair for you to penalise staffers. Either way, cut it out."'' It sounds (to put it bluntly and quite exaggerated) like "Are you an asshole to everyone or just to staffers? Any way stop writing something like this at all!". I don't know what you exactly wanted to say with this last paragraph but I'd be fine to forgive and forget about that. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 17:54, 12 June 2013 (UTC)
::::Yeah, that was pretty poorly phrased; my apologies. I guess what I was trying to say is: sometimes I get the impression that in terms of community civility, staffers are treated differently from volunteers, which isn't right, and that we should be civil to ''everyone''. [[User:Okeyes (WMF)|Okeyes (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Okeyes (WMF)|talk]]) 18:31, 12 June 2013 (UTC)

== Re:DyceBot ==

I'm still around, I just don't edit much anymore. The answer is yes and yes. However, there are complications. The primary issue is that I would require authorization from the commons bot people before I could run a bot there and I'm not sure they'd be particularly thrilled to have someone running a bot on the site who never visits or edits it. I could probably convince them that I'm responsible etc. enough to do it given that I've been running bots continuously on Wikipedia for years without any real problems, but I can't make any guarantees. In any case, it seems likely that the approval process would take both time and effort on top of the effort in altering the bot to work with a template, and I'm sure you can understand why I'd be hesitant to expend that effort unless I was sure that the bot was needed and wanted.

On that note I can't help but notice that [[commons:Commons talk:Graphic Lab]] has a fairly long and contentious discussion of archiving on it. I didn't read the whole discussion, but I skimmed it, and I didn't see much evidence of consensus for anything. If you were to have a discussion with the other maintainers of the pages in question in which you outlined what the bot does (essentially what the existing bot does with the addition of automatic stale tagging and archival) and a consensus was reached that such a bot would resolve the problems you've been having to everyone's satisfaction, I'd be willing to run the gauntlet of getting the bot approved. If you wanted me to pop in and describe what the bot does quick I'd do that, but otherwise it would be up to you to gain that consensus. Please let me know how it goes. --[[User:Dycedarg|<span style="border:1px solid red;color:red; padding:1px;background:#000">'''Dycedarg'''</span>]] [[User talk:Dycedarg|'''<span style="color:#000000">&#x0436;</span>''']] 05:23, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

== Hi  ==

You Restore the request on Illustration workshop [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 17:22, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
:Yes, and I also explained why I did in my edit summary. We have a bot that is automatically archiving resolved requests, so it is not necessary to remove them by hand. Actually it's even detrimental since nobody can ever comprehend how and why an image was created when he looks at it one day. If there is still a link to the Graphics Lab archive you can reread the requests. Additionally others might be interested in the result, too, maybe they even have some comments to make or further improvements to offer. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 17:29, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
::yes i did myself but minor correction in tamil script if you can help me 17:37, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
:::Ask in the Graphics Lab in your original request (just remove the {{tlf|resolved}} tag and add your comment). That's what the Graphics Lab is for. If there is still some problem with the image, you shouldn't have removed it anyway. --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 17:44, 8 July 2013 (UTC)
:::Yep i going to do that [[User:Perumalism|<span style="color:#FF9933;">Perumalism</span>]] [[User talk:Perumalism|<span style="color:orange;">Chat</span>]] 17:46, 8 July 2013 (UTC)

== Danke! ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 1px solid #fceb92;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 5px;" | [[File:Shake hand.jpg|100px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 3px 3px 0 3px; height: 1.5em;" | '''The collaborator award'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" | For Graphics Lab work...we writers love our illustrators. [[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]])
|}

== Graphics Lab Top 4 ==

As you've recently been editing the Top 4, I was wondering if you could have your input into some thoughts I've posted [[Template_talk:Graphics_Lab/Illustration_workshop/Top_4#Thoughts|here]].  Thanks!  [[User:NikNaks|<b><span style="color:#1b37e5;">Nik</span><span style="color:#328824;">Naks</span></b>]] <sub>[[User talk:NikNaks|talk]] - [[commons:User:NikNaks/Gallery|gallery]]</sub> 14:21, 8 May 2014 (UTC)

== Re: "Anything below 1.0 is a preview release" ==

{{Talkback|Codename Lisa|"Anything below 1.0 is a preview release"}}
I think you haven't received the ping notification for my reply.
Best regards,
[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 22:22, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

: I have [[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] (and I'm also watching any talk page I wrote a message on recently, therefore also yours). I don't have few-minute response times though (as you seem to have based on the short time it took you to revert {{Smiley|;)}}). --[[User:Patrick87|Patrick87]] ([[User talk:Patrick87#top|talk]]) 22:28, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

::Following the discovery of my mistake (in assessing whose edit is BOLD, and whose is a REVERT) I self-reverted and started a discussion in "{{section link|Talk:Inkscape|Where should version numbers go?}}". Again, sorry for the mistake.

::Best regards,
::[[User:Codename Lisa|Codename Lisa]] ([[User talk:Codename Lisa|talk]]) 23:00, 17 March 2015 (UTC)

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