View source for User talk:Donner60

[[File:Sherlock Holmes and the Secret Weapon 2.jpg|thumb|Friendly talk page watchers are appreciated. They may respond to questions on or edits to this page, especially when I am unable to respond quickly or when an additional response to an edit, question or comment would be helpful.]][[File:A photo of a blue-eyed white cat (2023; cropped 2023).png|thumb|right|220px|I am also watching things here.]]

I will be online most days, at least briefly, for the near future. I will update if I expect to be offline for more than a day or two. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 04:03, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

I have added a prioritized to do list to my user page. These have been getting done much more slowly than intended because of coordinator tasks and other unanticipated editing that needed more immediate attention. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:06, 16 June 2025 (UTC)

Please put comments or questions on new subjects at the very '''bottom of the page''', use a new section heading, refer to the exact title of an article and sign your message with four tildes. If you send me an e-mail please leave a talk page notice. I am not always prompt at looking for new e-mails at the listed address. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 09:12, 1 October 2023 (UTC)

== New messages, questions, comments: Put at very bottom of page, see text of this section ==
Please put new messages at the very '''bottom''' of the page. Thanks. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 08:39, 13 December 2012 (UTC) To clarify, the new item should not be below this message and not below the repeated message after my introductory paragraphs but at the very bottom of the page after every other item on the page. It will help me to understand what you are talking about to add a section heading, identify the article you are concerned with (if your question or comment refers to a specific article), using a link, probably putting the article title in the heading, and  sign your edit with four [[Tilde|tildes]] <nowiki>(~~~~)</nowiki> so I know to whom to reply. Keep an eye on this page because I may just reply here if the answer is simple and does not seem to be time sensitive. When I notice an out of order question or comment, I will move it to the bottom of the page and provide a heading if there is none already. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 22:32, 28 January 2015 (UTC)

{{Autopatrolled topicon|icon_nr=0}} {{Reviewer topicon|icon_nr=1}} {{Rollback topicon|icon_nr=2}} {{Extended confirmed topicon|icon_nr=3}} {{10 Year topicon}} {{Precious topicon}} {{WikiProject Military history Coordinator topicon}} {{GA user topicon| article_name = Battle of Gettysburg | date = 11 April 2023 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon| article_name = Darius the Great | date = 29 June 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon| article_name = Flavian dynasty | date = 6 July 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon | article_name = Battles of Lexington and Concord | date=28 July 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon | article_name = Siege of Fort William Henry | date=11 August 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon | article_name = Edward Porter Alexander | date=11 August 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}}  {{GA user topicon | article_name = P. G. T. Beauregard | date=4 October 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}} {{GA user topicon | article_name = Siege of Yorktown | date=8 October 2025 | action= helped |become_alt=remain}}

{{archivebox|[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 1|Archive 1]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 2|Archive 2]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 3|Archive 3]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 4|Archive 4]] [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 5|Archive 5]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 6|Archive 6]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 7|Archive 7]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 8|Archive 8]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 9|Archive 9]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 10|Archive 10]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 11|Archive 11]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 12|Archive 12]]   [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 13|Archive 13]]   [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 14|Archive 14]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 15|Archive 15]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 16|Archive 16]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 17|Archive 17]]<br>  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 18|Archive 18]]  [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 19|Archive 19]] [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 20|Archive 20]]<br>[[User talk:Donner60/Archive 21|Archive 21]] [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 22|Archive 22]] [[User talk:Donner60/Archive 23|Archive 23]] }}

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==Disambiguation link and bracket bot notifications==
I occasionally get one of these notices. I fix the link or bracket, then delete the message, as the messages state is permissible, instead of further cluttering up these pages. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:13, 19 August 2012 (UTC)<br>
......................<br>

== A barnstar for you! ==

{|style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: whitesmoke;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:ACW Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''[[WP:ACW|The American Civil War Barnstar]]'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For all your excellent help with Gettysburg, Hobart Ward, Stonewall's arm, and many other articles. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 17:07, 4 March 2023 (UTC)
|-
|}

== In appreciation ==
{| style="border: 2px solid #8000FF; background-color: #FFFAF0;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" |{{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Rescue Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Rescuebarnstar.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Article Rescue Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | For your help in saving [[Battle of Gettysburg]] at GAR. [[User:AirshipJungleman29|~~ AirshipJungleman29]] ([[User talk:AirshipJungleman29|talk]]) 11:25, 9 April 2023 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks! I was glad to help. The Battle of Gettysburg is such an important milestone in U.S. history that it should be kept to a good standard. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:18, 10 April 2023 (UTC)

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:Original Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For all the work you put in checking the military history writing contest entries. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 23:02, 6 August 2023 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks. It's something I can do for the project which relieves the frequent contributors from the task and can be spread out over a month. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:45, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

== Congratulations ==

{| style="border: 2px solid lightsteelblue; background-color: whitesmoke;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:US-O11 insignia.svg|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" |&ensp;'''The ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2023|Coordinator stars]]'''''&ensp;
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid lightsteelblue;" | On behalf of the members of WikiProject Military history, in recognition of your election to the position of Coordinator, I take great pleasure in presenting you with the Coordinator's stars, and wish you the best of luck for the coming year! [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 19:27, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks! [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:05, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

== Congratulations from the Military History Project ==
{| style="border: 2px solid lightsteelblue; background-color: whitesmoke;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[Image:Wiki-stripe1.svg|75px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | &ensp;'''''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards#Service_awards|Military history reviewers' award]]'''''&ensp;
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid lightsteelblue;" | On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the The Milhist reviewing award (1 stripe) for participating in 2 reviews between October and December 2023. {{user0|Hawkeye7}} via [[User:MilHistBot|MilHistBot]] ([[User talk:MilHistBot|talk]]) 00:32, 3 January 2024 (UTC) <br><small>Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{tlx|WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space</small>
|}

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Reviewer Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Barnstar-RTFM.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Reviewer Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your work reviewing the backlog of Italian Army articles at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Requests]]. Thank you! [[User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|Pickersgill-Cunliffe]] ([[User talk:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|talk]]) 15:50, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks! At least 40 more to come soon. The editor has done a good job of bringing these up to B class. He will be posting the remainder in the near future. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:43, 15 January 2024 (UTC)

</div>
<small>Sent by [[m:User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] on behalf of The Wikipedia Library team --13:36, 24 January 2024 (UTC)</small>
<!-- Message sent by User:Samwalton9 (WMF)@metawiki using the list at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=The_Wikipedia_Library/Newsletter/Recipients&oldid=26101612 -->

== A barnstar for you! ==

{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:alt|alt|[[File:Premium Reviewer Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:Barnstar-RTFM laurier.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Premium Reviewer Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I was curious, seeing as I remembered you reviewing another article I did some work on, [[William Henry Harrison Seeley]], so I decided to check the history of [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Requests‎|the Military History assessment requests section]]; of the past 500 edits made there, you contributed 348 of them. That to me is an absolutely incredible figure, and I think you definitely deserve this. [[User:CommissarDoggo|<b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#fc1008">Commissar</b><b style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Doggo</b>]]''[[User talk:CommissarDoggo|<sup style="font-family:Helvetica Neue;color:#0363ff">Talk?</sup>]]'' 23:36, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
|}

:Thanks. Most of the articles put up for manual assessments are easy enough to review due to the many outstanding contributors that we have to the project. Most are interesting as well. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:43, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

== February 2024 WikiProject Unreferenced articles backlog drive – award ==

{| style="border: 1px solid grey; background-color: #fdffe7;"
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'''Citation Barnstar'''
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray; width:100%;" | This award is given in recognition to {{BASEPAGENAME}} for collecting more than 5 points during the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced articles|WikiProject Unreferenced articles]]'s [[WP:FEB24|FEB24]] backlog drive. Your contributions played a crucial role in sourcing 14,300 unsourced articles during the drive. Thank you so much for participating and helping to reduce the backlog! – – [[User:DreamRimmer|<b style="color:black; font-family: Tahoma">DreamRimmer</b>]] ('''[[User talk:DreamRimmer|talk]]''') 17:56, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
|}

== RE: Republic of China Marine Corps ==

Thank you for the comment and for taking a look at this article (and also for the Galicia Division article that you assessed a while ago). For the organization table, I think it will be best for me to go through and add citations for every individual unit, because there is not a single source that lists out everything on there on one page (from what I could find), but there are sources for the individual units. I will start on that soon, and I will reply to your note on the assessment page when I finish with this task. I don't think this will take long. [[User:Romanov loyalist|Romanov loyalist]] ([[User talk:Romanov loyalist|talk]]) 16:49, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
== Congratulations from the Military History Project ==
{| style="border: 2px solid lightsteelblue; background-color: whitesmoke;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[Image:Wiki-stripe2.svg|75px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | &ensp;'''''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards#Service_awards|Military history reviewers' award]]'''''&ensp;
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid lightsteelblue;" | On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the The Milhist reviewing award (2 stripes) for participating in 4 reviews between January and March 2024. {{user0|Hawkeye7}} via [[User:MilHistBot|MilHistBot]] ([[User talk:MilHistBot|talk]]) 04:28, 22 April 2024 (UTC) <br><small>Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{tlx|WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space</small>
|}

== Salutations! ==

[[User:Donner60|Donner60]]... It has been too long, my friend. I hope you're doing well, and that life is treating you with happiness and joy. We haven't spoken in quite some time (it's really ''my'' fault; work and life has gotten very busy for me). I was going through some old pages, saw your responses to me in many discussions, and I wanted to thank you for your support and to let you know that I was thinking about you... :-) [[User:Oshwah|<b><span style="color:#C00000">~Oshwah~</span></b>]]<sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Oshwah|<span style="color:blue">(talk)</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Oshwah|<span style="color:green">(contribs)</span>]]</b></small></sup>  05:01, 3 May 2024 (UTC)

:Good to hear from you. I have spent my time recently as a coordinator for the military history project. Before that Huggle had gone haywire on me and my activity fell off when I could not get it to work. I then moved on to less activity in covid times which started about the same time. I have had covid twice but fortunately seem to have gotten over it without much, if anything, in the way of after effects - maybe some periodic fatigue could be related, I suppose. I resumed editing but not working on anti-vandalism except for a few brief instances that I came across. I started working more on military history project reviews, GA reassessments and some editing about a year ago. In the absence of enough volunteers, I agreed to be a military history project coordinator starting last September. I have spent almost all my time reviewing and assessing articles, monitoring the article writing contest and occasionally answering some questions. It has taken almost all of my online time so my to-do list has remained about as it was when I got more involved in the project. I have missed working and communicating with you and a few others whom I have lost contact with for a few years now. Since I am still active, I hope to keep up with online friends here more than I have been doing. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 07:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)

== TFA ==
{{User QAIbox
| image = Hawthorn in bloom, Ehrenbach.jpg
| image_upright = 1.3
| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|story]] · [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|music]] · [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2024#20 May|places]]
}}
Today's TFA, [[Felix M. Warburg House]], was written by Vami_IV and Epicgenius, introduced: "This article is about another of the great houses that once lined Fifth Avenue in New York. Specifically, this is the mansion of Felix M. Warburg, a Jewish financier who ignored fears of anti-Semitic reprisal to his decided to build himself a big Gothic manor in the middle of New York City. Although the Warburgs no longer remain, their legacy does: the museum is now the home of the Jewish Museum (Manhattan) and the building largely survives as they left it. It's a beautiful building and I hope you will all enjoy it."! - in memory -- [[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:35, 10 May 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks, Gerda. I was shocked and saddened by Vami_IV's death, especially when I saw that he was so young. He was an outstanding contributor to Wikipedia and will be missed. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 18:41, 10 May 2024 (UTC)
:: yes, I remember the feeling of shock when I just saw the watch list entry -- today's story has a pic of a woman holding her cat, a DYK of 5 years ago - the recent pics of places show 2 orange tip butterflies --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:36, 14 May 2024 (UTC)
:: Thank you for improving articles in May! - [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#22 May|Today's story]] mentions a concert I loved to hear and a piece I loved to sing in choir, 150 years old OTD. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)
:: [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#30 May|Today's story]] is about [[Samuel Kummer]], one of five items on the Main page - more musing on my talk --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 22:53, 30 May 2024 (UTC)

== Battle of Plum Point Bend ==

Could you have a look at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators#ACRs for closure]] for me? This one needs closing. [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 04:50, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

:Done. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:22, 13 May 2024 (UTC)

== Bravo Zulu! ==

{| style="border:1px solid gray; background-color:#fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:Military barnstar 01.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size:x-large; padding:0 0.5em 0; vertical-align:middle; height:1.1em;" |'''The Military Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align:middle; border-top:1px solid gray;" | G'day Donner60. Just popped by to say what a brilliant effort you have been making on checking the B-Class auto assessments. Thanks for all your work for the project! Warm regards, [[User:Peacemaker67|Peacemaker67]]  ([[User_talk:Peacemaker67|click to talk to me]]) 08:36, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
|}

Thanks sent. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 01:17, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

==Thanks Donner60==
{| style="border:1px solid gray; background-color:#fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:Military ranked Barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size:x-large; padding:0 0.5em 0; vertical-align:middle; height:1.1em;" |'''The Military ranked Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align:middle; border-top:1px solid gray;" | This award is for your heroic efforts over many months to review B-class military history articles. [[User:Djmaschek|Djmaschek]] ([[User talk:Djmaschek|talk]]) 03:24, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
|}

== Italian Army June 2024 ==
Thank you for looking at the articles. As for me: not the war, but work kept me from continuing the work in wikipedia. I have more time now and will be back to continue to create articles for all Italian Army units. I fixed the missing references for the [[Regiment "Savoia Cavalleria" (3rd)]] and I wrote a longer introduction for the article. I will write longer introduction for the other four cavalry regiments as well. I already fixed the issue with the personnel of the [[Regiment "Genova Cavalleria" (4th)]], which as you correctly noted should be "those personnel". And: Captain Vannetti Donnini was the only Genova officer killed at Porta San Paolo. I reused text from the [[Regiment "Lancieri di Montebello" (8th)]] article, which suffered two officers killed in the same battle and did not properly edit it. I will finish with the cavalry intros next and then move to the aviation units. Cheers, and thank you, [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 18:33, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

: I found the time away from work to fix the issues:
:* [[Regiment "Genova Cavalleria" (4th)]] - fixed, longer intro, and now ready for review.
:* [[1st Army Aviation Regiment "Antares"]] - fixed missing citation, and now ready for review.
:* [[3rd Special Operations Helicopter Regiment "Aldebaran"]] - fixed missing citation, deleted the last two sections, as these were not by me and I do not think they add to the article, which is now ready for review.
:* [[4th Army Aviation Regiment "Altair"]] - fixed missing citation, and now ready for review.
: (In case of all three aviation regiments the source for the naming was at the beginning of the paragraph and not repeated at the end of the paragraph. An oversight on my part. I fixed this now also in the remaining Italian Army Aviation articles.)
: Thank you, and with best regards, [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 23:53, 19 June 2024 (UTC)
::Again, glad to see you back. I know you want to finish the other Italian Army unit articles. I have rated these B class, and pinged you on the assessment request page. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

== A class reviews ==

Would you consider closing [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Saipan]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Battle of Tinian]]? Both have three supports + source and image reviews [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 20:41, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

:Done. Assuming I did it right again this time. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:39, 30 June 2024 (UTC)
::Yes. All fine. Bot has run. Thanks for that. [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 00:14, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
:::Can we count these as June promotions? The bot time was 9 minutes after midnight UTC. Thanks.  [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:20, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
::::Sure. I have moved them from [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/August 2024/Articles]] to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/July 2024/Articles]]. Nobody has started work on the JUly Bugle yet. [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 01:20, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
== Congratulations from the Military History Project ==
{| style="border: 2px solid lightsteelblue; background-color: whitesmoke;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[Image:Wiki-stripe2.svg|75px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | &ensp;'''''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Awards#Service_awards|Military history reviewers' award]]'''''&ensp;
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid lightsteelblue;" | On behalf of the Military History Project, I am proud to present the The Milhist reviewing award (2 stripes) for participating in 4 reviews between April and June 2024. {{user0|Hawkeye7}} via [[User:MilHistBot|MilHistBot]] ([[User talk:MilHistBot|talk]]) 05:06, 2 July 2024 (UTC) <br><small>Keep track of upcoming reviews. Just copy and paste {{tlx|WPMILHIST Review alerts}} to your user space</small>
|}

== Assessment ==

Hi man. I see your an experienced editor and reviewer. I created [[Surface Fleet Review]] and was wanting to get it assessed so I have placed it at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Requests for assessment]]. I see its crossed out or something straight after I placed it there so im not quite sure what that means as I cant find a key for what to do. If you have any advice on the crossing-out thing or have any tips on the article I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks! [[User:DeadlyRampage26|DeadlyRampage26]] ([[User talk:DeadlyRampage26|talk]]) 06:10, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

:Unfortunately, you prefaced your request with a strike sympbol <nowiki></s></nowiki>. If a close strike symbol had been included, it would have made the strike through up to the point of that symbol. The complete absence of a close symbol resulted in the entire remainder of the page being struck, not just on the assessment request page but on the paragraphs that follow on the main assessment page. I have nowiki symbols before and after the strike symbol here which is the reason you don't see a strike through from that point to the end of the message.<br>
:The next coordinator or experienced assessor who looked at the page likely would have been alert to the problem but I am glad you brought it up because it would not necessarily be obvious to everyone. The strike and end strike sympbols are placed on the page after an assessment is made and only the article name is within the symbols. Then a reply is posted and the user who posted the request is notified of the result. I will be removing the strike out on the assessment pages when I complete this message. Soon I or another assessor will review the article.<br> 
:It happens. I did something similar not long ago.
[[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 20:35, 17 July 2024 (UTC)

==Happy First Edit Day!==
<!-- ##RW UNDERDATE## -->
{{ombox
| name = First Edit Day
| image = [[File:Twemoji2 1f5d3.svg{{!}}alt=Calendar emoji|50px]]
| imageright = [[File:Twemoji2 1f389.svg{{!}}alt=Party popper emoji|50px]]
| style = border: 2px solid CornflowerBlue; background: linear-gradient(to right, #a8ff78, #78ffd6);
| textstyle = padding: 0.75em; text-align:center;
| plainlinks = yes
| text  = <big>'''Happy First Edit Day!'''</big><br />Hi Donner60! On behalf of the [[WP:Birthday Committee|Birthday Committee]], I'd like to wish you a very happy  anniversary of the day you made [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions/Donner60&dir=prev&limit=1 your first edit] and became a Wikipedian!  [[User:The Herald|The Herald (Benison)]] ([[User talk:The Herald|talk]]) 04:29, 18 July 2024 (UTC)
}}

== GA Nomination ==

Hi, i had put up [[Battle of Thorgo]] article for reassessment now that its a B-class article and can you suggest whether its ready for Good article nomination since it's expansion has been completed with no further possible expansion and what it appears to me that it fulfills the criteria for GAN. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 10:38, 27 July 2024 (UTC)

:Hi Rahim: Here is my opinion and comments for what they are worth. When I see a good and complete B-class article for military history, I think it is probably ready for GA. Be aware that even though I think your article falls into this class, I don't do GA assessments. This is in large part because I have reviewed many of the articles that are put up for GA for B class and the military history standards are similar for B. Of course, the GA assessment is independent. So it should be done by a different assessor. If your article was not as complete as it is, it still might have been B but would need to be expanded for GA. I would have noted that much if you had asked about such an aritcle. 
:It is hard for me to predict what a GA assessor might want but I would be surprised if much was asked of you for it to be promoted to GA. (I have worked on a few GA reassessments if I have sources and usually if only some citations are needed or minimal expansion is needed. In a reassessment since the article had been assessed GA, in at least some cases, it can be kept GA. If one or a few editors who have some time and enough sources are confident they can improve the article, it stay as GA.) [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 08:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)
::Thanks for your comment, I will be nominating this article for GA review. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 20:01, 28 July 2024 (UTC)

== MILHIST coordination ==

I believe the annual coordinator election is coming up. I don't have near as much time as I use to, but I'd be able to be at least a part-time figure for that in the coming year I think. Do you think it would be useful for me to stand for election, even if I'm only going to be available for coordinator tasks sporadically? [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 01:09, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

:Yes. You would probably do at least as much as others have done, even if it is sporadic. Please don't stretch yourself too thin or become stressed over it. I may be a bit preachy, but I know you have much to do in real life and that must come first. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 01:52, 20 August 2024 (UTC)

== Ivan Turchin or John B. Turchin ==

Our article on Turchin/Turchaninov is currently at [[Ivan Turchin]]. The last couple books I've read have involved Turchin, who is invariably known as John B. Turchin in those works, with his Russian name only brought up as biographical background. Google books does show "Ivan Turchin" has some use, but I'm still inclined to think that John B. Turchin would be the better title, especially since the references in the article don't call him Ivan in the title. I wanted to see what you thought about this before opening a requested move, though. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 04:14, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

:Eicher, p. 537, lists him as Turchin, John Basil (Ivan Vasilovitch Turchinov) and Warner, p. 511, lists him as John Basil Turchin (Ivan Vasilovitch Turchinoff). Based on these sources, I think John B. Turchin or John Basil Turchin would be a better choice for the article title. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 04:23, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

::{{ping|Hog Farm}}. One more: Sifakis, Stewart. Who Was Who in the Civil War. New York: Facts On File, 1988. ISBN 978-0-8160-1055-4, p. 663, lists him as Turchin, John Basil (1822-1901). Later on the page he adds: Tuchinoff, Ivan Vasilovitch, see Turchin, John Basil. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 04:28, 1 September 2024 (UTC)

== Bastia ==

Thanks for taking the trouble on a Sunday. I'm not too fond of Holland's writing, which reminds me of books I read in the 60s. To me his books seem to be commercial publisher pot-boilers that lack academic depth; I'd like to find out that I was wrong. I had a long look at some Italian books in translation but they were too expensive for my purse. There's an article in Italian too but Jstor didn't have it. Regards [[User:Keith-264|Keith-264]] ([[User talk:Keith-264|talk]]) 18:01, 8 September 2024 (UTC)

== Article ==

Hi, i hope I'm not annoying you by asking some questions related to Military history articles.

The article [[KHAD-KGB campaign in Pakistan]] which was first a small scale terror campaign later became large scale and was mainly conducted by the Khad-Kgb to undermine the continuous Pakistani support to the Mujahideen during the soviet-Afghan war.
Now the result of the article on the Info box has been changed many times from "Operational inconclusivity" to victory or Pakistani Failure, by respective Afghan users. 

Upon asking them for the source they present this source [https://www.google.com.pk/books/edition/I_SPY/WhSMDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=0|I-SPY A peep into the world of Spies] which i read did contain the statement {{Green|"Pakistani ISI also failed to quell soviet terror campaign in 1987"}}, However the source itself does not contain any notes within and is a self published Book and makes exceptional claims. Whereas i cited the source for the claim of Khad-Kgb failure (Although i think now it would be better worded to this (KhAD–KGB failure to halt Pakistani support to the mujahideen) with the Book 

([https://archive.org/details/whatwewonamerica0000ried/page/36/mode/2up?q=38|What We Won: America's Secret War in Afghanistan, 1979-89]) Pg#36-39.

Another American source i found out stating this [https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/03/13/moscows-invisible-war-of-terror-inside-pakistan/6e96dd11-56a5-4d1e-bc64-c333f41af17e/]https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/opinions/1988/03/13/moscows-invisible-war-of-terror-inside-pakistan/6e96dd11-56a5-4d1e-bc64-c333f41af17e/|1]

"between Pakistan and the Soviet-backed regime in Kabul were about to
occur, or whenever an important VIP would arrive in Pakistan, the air
raids escalated. But limited to the Northwest Frontier, they didn't have
much effect on the population at large and failed to undermine the
strong popular support for the mujaheddin."

So what would be the result of the article retained in the info box ? since the sources presented by me were pretty reliable especially when this book was published by Brookings Institution Press compared to a self published book for citing an claim. Im not sure what do whether to change the result or leave it like this with both statments in the info box. See talk page of the article for what i explained to the user. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 13:03, 24 September 2024 (UTC)

:Your question is an appropriate one to ask a coordinator. A careful analysis seems necessary for me to reach an answer, or possibly more than one adequate answer. I'll give it a try here but if this turns out to be unsatisfactory, I suggest other options below to carry this forward.
:I will start with a comment about the infobox statement of the result as it stands with respect to its form. All the additional information in the infobox as to the result is not in line with infobox guidelines for military conflicts. It may be appropriate to include these items in a footnote, if they are reliably sourced and are needed for explanation and if the result parameter is kept at all. I will continue next with an analysis but include the template article guideline below because it could determine whether to keep the result item.
:This article is not about a war, campaign or battle. It could be best described as a military operation, or an operation in support of one side in a military conflict, or even as a terrorist campaign. The methods used by the KHAD/KGB were not simply terrorism, however.
:The article seems to me to be unusual in some respects. It is not the more usual type of operation which is limited and time and has a narrower objective. It is a continuing operation in a conflict where the side conducting the operation failed to achieve their ultimate objective and lost overall. On the other hand, the defending side seems not to have stopped the operation itself until they won the conflict. 
:Although your source seems to be a good one and the source for the other opinion does not appear to be a good one, I can't say that it shows a conclusive result of any kind because I cannot access the full three pages that you cite.
:One possible solution is to eliminate the result item altogether. [[Template:Infobox military conflict]] states this about "result": "''result'' – ''optional''" – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". '''Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in [[Wikipedia:NOR|speculation]] about which side won or by how much.'''
:That is the easiest answer to the question: just eliminate the result (or outcome) item.
:There is another template in the same template article about the the item to use for a military operation. That is to use "outcome" instead of "result." The explanation is "'''outcome''' – ''optional'' – the outcome of the operation from the perspective of the planners with a very brief summary of defence if appropriate." Here, this may not be adequate either. Questions could still arise about whether the planners thought it was a success (or claimed that it was) when in fact it was inconclusive or even a failure.
:If there is no conclusive source or if the other editors won't concede, and if eliminating the item from the infobox altogether doesn't work for you or them, this could go to a request for comment on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history]] in an effort to reach a consensus. This request for comment should also be put on the article talk page even though the question is already open there.
:You could ask one or more other coordinators for an opinion but I think it would be better to put a request for comment on the article talk page and ping coordinators if you wish to be sure they see it.
:Finally, a request for dispute resolution by uninvolved users as shown at [[Wikipedia:Dispute resolution#Dispute resolution noticeboard]] or one of the other noticeboards mentioned a few items above that. I am reasonably sure it would not be something to bring up to the administrators notice board unless some out of line conduct becomes apparent.
:I should note that the existing article has other problems as noted in the template at the top of it. I might even wonder whether non-duplicate reliable information should be merged with [[KHAD#Psychological Warfare and State-Sponsored Terrorism]] and a redirect substituted under the title of this article. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:29, 25 September 2024 (UTC)
::The topic itself is quite notable in order to remain as a stand-alone article it just needs some work to be done.
::According to the sources the Campaign and its main objective was to intimidate Pakistani High command to stop the support for Afghan mujahideen by means of Terrorist bombings through out cities, cross border raids, Aerial confrontations, Funding separatist's etc. The campaign was ramped up in the final years and did not achieve any of its aims. 
::Another source by the CIA on this Topic which explains the Campaign in detail.[https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP06T00412R000606330001-2.pdf]https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP06T00412R000606330001-2.pdf
::Actually you can access the book pages on History archive, First just insert the page number in the search bar on the top left  in this case (Page-36) you want to access hit the search bar then on the results you will see the page number in results. Click on the page number like three to four times and the page can be previewed if it doesn't load after that zoom in and out the book and im pretty sure it will load, it applies for most of the book. [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 13:26, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
:::I accessed the book. Thanks. I think your conclusion is correct based on the obvious outcome. The sources may not persuade others, however. For me, the most important point about the CIA report is that it is an interim report from 1986. There is potential argument to be made about the language. Although it does have a section which says the Soviet operation was not troubling the Pakistanis, it also uses the words "modest success" at the beginning. So it seems to contradict itself. But the fact that the campaign continued after this is the real sticking point.
:::While the book comes to the obvious conclusion as to the outcome of the war, I have to say that the pages cited do not deal with the entire campaign, only with parts of it. I don't see how this can possibly be used to support a KHAD/KGB victory of any sort (except for an operation or two). On the other hand, unfortunately, it does not clearly say that the campaign was a total failure.
:::This leaves me with the opinion that you will probably need some additional sourcing to prevent an edit war, which you rightly have been trying to do. Otherwise, you may be left with just the sort of ambiguous result which the guidelines reject. You certainly don't want to get into an edit war over this. At this point, I see deletion of the result parameter as the best option here to prevent that. You can still point out the obvious result overall by citing the Riedel book. If you wish to carry it forward and keep the result, I think you will need to take it to dispute resolution. You may also want to ask for further comments or opinions on the military history project talk page. It might bring some positive ideas but I would not be surprised if it also did not produce a conclusive resolution. 
:::I appreciate that you are in a difficult position with this. You have an obvious conclusion but don't seem to have the definitive statements from the sources about the specific operations to convince the doubters or POV pushers. Unfortunately, I think this is the best I can do with this hard question. Maybe some other coordinator or experienced uninvolved military history editor can be of more help if you wish to continue to add the result parameter. You could also take it through dispute resolution, as I noted, but I am not sure you could get a definite resoultion without at least one more definitive source. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 15:45, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
::::I understood what you meant by there needs to be additional sourcing, since Riedel book doesn't talk about the campaign only but also includes of the result of whole war and the Cia Document is a report before the war ended but credible one.
::::For the success thing everyone knows if the Campaign actually succeeded in its main aim we today might've had a Communist Afghan government instead.
::::I will try my best look further into this matter and consult other coordinators as well. Thanks for your Kind feedback! [[User:Rahim231|Rahim231]] ([[User talk:Rahim231|talk]]) 06:29, 28 September 2024 (UTC)
:::::Thanks. I want to emphasize that I agree with your conclusion. My concern is that this situation is somewhat unusual. I am looking at it in part as a problem that should be handled carefully withough provoking an edit war. If you can find some additional sources, that would certainly help. I do think that other results or outcomes can not be well supported so any conclusion other than the one you support should not be inserted into the article. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 06:49, 28 September 2024 (UTC)

{| style="border: 2px solid lightsteelblue; background-color: whitesmoke;"

|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:US-O11 insignia.svg|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2024 |Coordinator stars]]''''' 
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid lightsteelblue;" | On behalf of the members of WikiProject Military history, in recognition of your election to the position of Coordinator, I take great pleasure in presenting you with the Coordinator's stars, and wish you the best of luck for the coming year! [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 00:04, 30 September 2024 (UTC)
|}

== [[User:Otolemur crassicaudatus|Otolemur crassicaudatus]] was my previous username ==

Regarding [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AOtolemur_crassicaudatus&diff=1182595429&oldid=1091530168 this] edit, It was my previous username. [[User:CometVolcano|CometVolcano]] ([[User talk:CometVolcano|talk]]) 13:10, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
:Can you remove OC from Missing Wikipedians? --[[User:CometVolcano|CometVolcano]] ([[User talk:CometVolcano|talk]]) 13:43, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
::I have removed it to facilitate any redirect. However, you have a retired template on the old user name and no redirect there or on your user page. So I am not sure removing OC from the missing wikipedia list and the user talk page will serve any useful purpose unless you note this on your new user page and on the old page and talk page. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 18:08, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

== Italian Army ==

FYI: I am updating / copy editing the 298 Italian Army articles I already wrote, before tackling the six oldest regiments. Therefore a bit of time will pass before the last six are ready to be assessed. Thank you for your help and work, and with best regards, [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 00:22, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

:I would like to nominate you for Military Historian of the Year when nominations open for that. I think that will be as soon as a few weeks from now. It would be helpful if you can give me a count or articles written or improved during this calendar year. Thanks for all your hard work. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:28, 21 October 2024 (UTC)

:: Oh, that is an unexpected honor. Thank you for this suggestion. I have a list of all the articles I created and worked on, but it was a work of 2 years. In 2024 I created 33 articles so far, and expanded 100+, which I have created earlier (i.e. [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=17th_Volunteer_Training_Regiment_%22Acqui%22&diff=1251652854&oldid=1235813295 like this]). As the first articles I wrote aren't as in depth as the latter ones, I am revising/expanding all articles now. So far I have revised/expanded 92 articles and will do another 206, then I plan to create, respectively expand, the last 6 articles, before heading to work on the army's 31 brigades. Today I revising the last of the signal and engineer units. Best regards, [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 09:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Thanks. I think I will mention the two year total as well. I will let you know when we need the full count after the notice appears. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:15, 22 October 2024 (UTC)

== Computer problems ==

{{@MILHIST}} {{ping|Zawed|Saxum|MisterBee1966}} My computer has been down for several days and I now have some other problems to clear up as a result. I am back online but will have limited time online for at least a few weeks due to recovery from the problems caused by this and due to other real life obligations. I hope to be online at least briefly most days. Just to let you know why I have disappeared for six days without putting a notice on top of my user and talk pages to say that I expected to be offline for more than a few days. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:20, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

:Take care! [[User:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|Pickersgill-Cunliffe]] ([[User talk:Pickersgill-Cunliffe|talk]]) 11:14, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

== Italian Army articles ==

To answer your question on my talkpage: since August 2023 I have brought to B-class 298 articles about units of the Italian Army. Of these I created 289 from scratch, while nine were created by other editors and I brought them up to B-class. In 2023 and 2024 I created 145 articles, while the remaining articles I had created earlier, but had left them as stubs or start-class. In 2023 I started the project to write articles for all the Italian Army units active after WWII. Some 15k+ edits since then. I also created 330+ regimental coat of arms for this project during the Covid pandemic. Right now I am proof-reading all 298 articles  and expanding  some of the most ancient units (i.e. [[1st Regiment "Granatieri di Sardegna"]], which is now a 71k bytes article with a third of the expansion still do). Next I will write the articles for the six regiments still missing, and then look at doing some articles for key WWII units, which were not reactivated after WWII. Then the I will bring the articles of the 27 brigades active after WWII to B-class. I don’t know if this is relevant, but beside this project I have also been creating and updating the military organization diagrams of almost all Western armies since 2007. Like i.e. last week I updated the [[:File:British Army - Future Soldier 2024 organization.png]] and [[:File:French Armée de Terre organization 2025.png]]. If you need more details, please let me know. Thank you, and with best regards [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 18:42, 17 November 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks. I will mention the diagram information as well. I will write this up as concisely as I can. If I need anything else, I will let you know. Otherwise, I will let you know when I post the nomination. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 01:55, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
::{{ping|noclador}} I sat down to work on this. I checked to see if the nomination page was already posted. I was surprised to see not only that the nominations had already begun, but Hawkeye7 had already nominated you for military historian of the year! [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history#Nominations for military historian of the year for 2024 are open!]]  I am pleased, and I am sure that you are pleased as well, to see that your work is being recognized. The next thing for me to do is to be sure that the nomination has an adequate summary of your work. I am reasonably sure that "seconding" a nomination is probably beyond the scope of this event, but I will look into that. The next step of voting starts on December 1. Since there is some time remaining, I will look into the secondary aspects, if there are any, later in the week. Congratulations are already in order. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:28, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
::: Thank you for letting me know, and thank you for the congratulations. All this is an unexpected, but also satisfying, turn of events. Thank you for taking the time to keep an eye on this. As this is the first time for me to be involved in this process I am unsure what steps to do, except for thanking Hawkeye7 and you for the nomination. With best regards, [[User:Noclador|noclador]] ([[User talk:Noclador|talk]]) 19:43, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
::::All you need to do is thank Hawkeye7. You need not thank me for the nomination. I intended to nominate you but Hawkeye7 beat me to it. I still need to check to see if I need to, and can, add anything to it. (Probaby not is my guess.) The nomination process ends on November 30. The voting ends on December 30. After that those nominees with the top three votes will be awarded gold, silver and broze medals for their user pages, if they wish to display them. I am glad your tireless work is being recognized. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:30, 19 November 2024 (UTC)

== MILHIST assessments ==

Thanks for assessing so may of my recent submissions and for [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment/Requests&diff=prev&oldid=1263037406 your note here].  I've been assessing articles from [[:Category:Military history articles needing attention only to supporting materials]], many of which are wrongly assessed, and checking some of my old articles to see if it makes a dent in our 15% B-class progress bar.  It's shifted up from 83.4% to 83.9% in the month so far (it takes about 35 articles becoming B-class to shift it by 0.1%, I think), and it would be great to see us achieve 100% at some point in the not too distant future.  We do really well at achieving GAs and FAs but I think the best yardstick of quality is how good our average articles are.  If you get round to checking your articles I am more than happy to assess them - [[User:Dumelow|Dumelow]] ([[User talk:Dumelow|talk]]) 18:42, 14 December 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks. Wrong assessments seem to be more common than one would have guessed. It also doesn't help to improve the percentages when many low quality or low information articles on usually obscure topics or minor events are posted every month. I thank you for your attention to these articles. I occasionally look at one or a few articles in the backlog. I usually pay attention to articles that need referencing, about which I have books on the subject or can find sources on JSTOR or the internet archive and when I have a little extra time to work on them. It would not surprise me if most regular users are overwhelmed when they look at the huge backlog of articles and difficulty in upgrading the many obscure or minor ones. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:21, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

::Yes, referencing is a problem everywhere, I like to think MILHIST is a bit better than average but that backlog is immense.  I tried to do a few during the recent drive on completely unreferenced articles but only worked on very small ones; it is hard to believe so many longer articles have no references at all.  In the medium term I see no reason why the "only missing" b3, b4 and b5 categories shouldn't be effectively down to single digits and provide a source of new b-class content (provided the original assessments are accurate, which Milhistbot is helping with immensely).  Maybe the coords will consider a B-class content drive in the new year.  Keep up the good work and wishing you all the best for the season - [[User:Dumelow|Dumelow]] ([[User talk:Dumelow|talk]]) 09:47, 15 December 2024 (UTC)

== Happy Holidays  ==

{| style="background-color: #fdffe7; border: 4px solid #FFD700;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 2px;" | [[File:Wikipedia Happy New Year.png|211px]]
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 2px 2px 0 2px; height: 1.5em;" | '''Merry Christmas and a Prosperous 2025!'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; padding: 3px;" |
----
'''Hello Donner60, may you be surrounded by peace, success and happiness on this [[Christmas and holiday season|seasonal occasion]]. Spread the [[Wikipedia:WikiLove|WikiLove]] by wishing another user a [[Christmas|Merry Christmas]] and a [[New Year|Happy New Year]], whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person. Sending you heartfelt and warm greetings for Christmas and New Year 2025. <br />Happy editing,'''<br />
[[User:Abishe|Abishe]] ([[User talk:Abishe|talk]]) 21:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:Thanks and the same wishes to you. I appreciate being remembered by a prolific editor such as you. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 01:21, 25 December 2024 (UTC)

''{{resize|96%|Spread the love by adding {{tls|Seasonal Greetings}} to other user talk pages.}}''
|}<nowiki> </nowiki>[[User:Abishe|Abishe]] ([[User talk:Abishe|talk]]) 21:46, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

==DYK for Confederate Monument (Oxford, Mississippi)==
{{ivmbox
|image = Updated DYK query.svg
|imagesize=40px
|text = On [[Wikipedia:Recent_additions/2025/January#13 January 2025|13 January 2025]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Confederate Monument (Oxford, Mississippi)]]''''', which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ''... that it cost an estimated $1.2 million to move the '''[[Confederate Monument (Oxford, Mississippi)|Confederate Monument]]''' ''(pictured)'' at the University of Mississippi?'' The nomination discussion and review may be seen at [[Template:Did you know nominations/Confederate Monument (Oxford, Mississippi)]]. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page <small>([[User:Rjanag/Pageview stats|here's how]], [https://pageviews.toolforge.org/?start=2025-01-03&end=2025-01-23&project=en.wikipedia.org&pages=Confederate_Monument_(Oxford,_Mississippi) Confederate Monument (Oxford, Mississippi)])</small>, and the hook may be added to [[Wikipedia:Did you know/Statistics/Monthly DYK pageview leaders|the statistics page]] after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|Did you know talk page]].
}}<!-- Template:UpdatedDYK -->  &spades;[[User:Premeditated Chaos|PMC]]&spades; [[User_talk:Premeditated Chaos|(talk)]] 00:02, 13 January 2025 (UTC)

== [[George B. Crittenden]] ==

I've been rewriting this article from a very short, barely cited thing. Does Eicher ''Civil War High Commands'' having anything to add here? [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 04:26, 19 January 2025 (UTC)

:Eicher's information on Crittenden starts on p.190 and most of it is on page 191 - with the last item on page 190 being "Move to Tex. 1842, Republic of Tex." and starting with "Army" on page 191. Eicher has the same information that is in the article, except for some detail in the following excerpt on p. 191 "...Dist of E. Tenn. -Dept No. Two 12 Nov 1861 - 23 Feb. 1862; D2-Army of Cent. Ky. - Dept. No Two, 23 Feb. 1862 - 31 Mar. 1862; relieved of command 31. Mar 1862; arrested 1 April 1862 for drunkenness by order of William J. Hardee; restored 18 April 1862; Court of Inquiry ordered by Braxton Bragg, 24 July 1862; res, as general officer, reverting to Col. CSA 23 Oct. 1862:.." The remaining items on page 191 are all in the article now, except that Eicher shows Crittenden's term as state librarian as 1867-1871. Eicher, John H., and [[David J. Eicher]], ''Civil War High Commands.'' Stanford: Stanford University Press, 2001. {{ISBN|978-0-8047-3641-1}}. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 06:40, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
:: Thank you! For now, I'm going to rely on the more in-depth biographical sources for the date of the state librarian post. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 22:31, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

== January music ==
{{User QAIbox
| image = Ehrenbach icicles.jpg
| image_upright = 0.8
| bold = [[User:Gerda Arendt/Top|story]] · [[User talk:Gerda Arendt#Music|music]] · [[User:Gerda Arendt/Places and songs 2025#24 Jan|places]]
}}
Happy new year 2025! We had, [[Wikipedia:Main Page history/2025 January 14|pictured on the Main page]], on 14 January [[Tosca]], in memory of her first appearance on stage OTD in 1900, and of principal author [[User talk:Brianboulton|Brian Boulton]], and today is [[Franz Schubert|Schubert]]'s birthday. I added a pic to his article (and [[User:Gerda Arendt/Stories#31 Jan|my story]]) and raised a question on the talk, regarding the lead image. --[[User:Gerda Arendt|Gerda Arendt]] ([[User talk:Gerda Arendt|talk]]) 22:11, 31 January 2025 (UTC)

== SB2U Vindicator ==

:I've found all the missing citations for the [[SB2U]], but I'm not sure what the dead link tag is about. Isn't that a book source?
:Also, I see the article has a "better source needed" tag on it. If I find a reliable source that has the SB2U's specifications but doesn't exactly match them (37.48m vs. 40m as a random example), should I change the specifications in the article to match the source? Or should I leave them be? [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 01:04, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
::I removed the tags. There is a valid link to a cited source. I simply made a mistake by placing the tags. Since this is clear, I can't say what I think I saw or didn't see when I clicked on the existing citation. I can only guess at this point and that would not be useful. Since you provided all the needed citations, I have reassessed the article as B class. Sorry for the mistake. Everyone will make one or more over time and I must admit that I do occasionally. Wikipedia is always a work in progress. As long as genuine mistakes of this nature are cleared up quickly, I think little if any harm is done. Thanks for improving the article. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:56, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::You can add this to the contest - start to B, since it was assessed this month, if you wish to do so. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:08, 5 March 2025 (UTC)
:::No worries at all, thank you for helping with the assessment and providing guidance! [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 12:58, 5 March 2025 (UTC)

== Bombardment of Greytown article ==

I just received an email from Wikipedia that said you just changed the Military History Assessment Request page. I will check that out.

In the meantime I hope you don’t mind if I take this opportunity to contact you on another matter which just came up coincidentally and in which you interacted with me in late 2024.

At that time, I had expanded someone else’s Start-class article called Bombardment of Greytown,  which, after some extensive suggestions, was declared a B Level article by either you or Hawkeye7. In the course of my interactions with you and Hawkeye7 and one or two other advisors, I had received no less than 36 emails alerting me to changes made or suggested, ending on 7 December 2024.

Having received the B Level imprimatur and having ceased to receive any more email alerts as to further activity, I assumed the matter was closed, unless I sought to elevate the article beyond B Level or sought a peer review. Recently, I glanced at the article, and I noticed substantial additions have been made to it in 2025 and a warning added to the top that, “This article's tone or style may not reflect the encyclopedic tone used on Wikipedia. etc.” Again, I never received email notification that any of this was happening.

The additions made to the article were mostly to the backstory and might be acquiesced in, although I think they slow down unnecessarily the run up to the titular incident. But I would like to address that warning at the top. Why would either you and Hawkeye7 award it a B Level if it had such a tone or style problem? I looked at the description of what can cause tone problems in an article (<nowiki>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Writing_better_articles#Tone</nowiki>) and did not see where I might’ve violated this prescription. Perhaps someone could point out some examples in the piece of such failings. Or perhaps the warning was placed there in error. I would also like to know how that warning was added and those additions made to the article without my having been alerted by email at the time – or since. [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 02:39, 9 March 2025 (UTC)

:Click on the view history tab and you can see who made the changes and who placed the template. It was placed by User:Grutness, one of the longest serving administrators on Wikipedia. You will need to ask him for a further explanation. I suggest you check to see whether any of the changes made by others might have prompted him to place the template so you are better informed before you make contact. Although only an explanatory essay, I suggest you look at [[Wikipedia:Writing better articles#Tone]] and later subsections, as well, before you proceed.
:I can assure you, and you can see from the edit and talk page history, that neither Hawkeye7 nor I have edited the article or talk page in any way since the assessment was posted in November. Hawkeye7 assessed the article and confirmed the contest entry.
:No article is ever closed. They all can be edited, assuming they are not protected in some way such as requiring extended confirmed rights or need for a reviewer to look at it. You can see on the talk page that the article retains the B class assessment. Any assessment even at higher levels does not exempt an article from changes or from other types of criticism that might well not affect the assessment - especially if a reassessment is not requested. Any edit can be put up for discussion on talk pages or brought to higher levels of mediation on the project if no agreement can be reached. Often someone who changes an article will withdraw if presented with the fact that sources do not support the change. And their changes can also be changed or modified, unless an edit war takes place that requires intervention, possibly by an administrator.
:Are you actually referring to e-mail? Do you even have a consent to receive e-mails set up? Very few communications with respect to Wikipedia are made by e-mail because that type of communication between users who have consented to receive e-mail (filtered through Wikipedia so there is no public access to the content) is supposed to be for confidential communications. Then, a notice would be placed on the talk page, or perhaps should be placed, by the sender on the recipient's talk page. My Wikipedia e-mail is only for Wikipedia and I rarely use it or look at it unless I send or get a notice on the other party's talk page. I might assume that you actually are referring to messages on your talk page as e-mail but, of course, I can't be certain unless you confirm that. I can assure you that I have not sent you any e-mails or sent any messages or taken any action with respect to the article. I can say with complete confidence that Hawkeye7 has not done so either.
:Do you have a watchlist set up to receive notices? If you do have a watchlist, and add articles to it, you can check that list daily or frequently to see if any changes were made to any article that you have placed on the watchlist - in most cases only those who have edited or written an article will add it to their watchlist. Others who edit or place templates are not obliged to send any notice to you about the changes. Most users will assume that if a previous author has any interest in changes, they will watchlist the article or look at it occasionally to see changes. Some might notify you, or just post a question or comment on the talk page, if they think it is a matter that should be discussed or there are questions to be answered. At least as a courtesy, they should notify you if a reassessment is requested. In that case a notice is usually placed on the military history project talk page.
:I hope that this answers your questions and clarifies the matter for you. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 04:58, 9 March 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks, Donner, for this prompt, extraordinarily helpful and detailed response to my query.
::I will contact Grutness and Historyguy1138 (who I think did the background additions).
::I checked “to see whether any of the changes made by others might have prompted him” and I found these breadcrumbs:
::curprev 22:04, 6 February 2025 Citation bot talk contribs  37,903 bytes −22  Removed parameters. | Use this bot. Report bugs. | Suggested by Abductive | Category:Wikipedia articles with style issues from January 2025 | #UCB_Category 338/418 undothank '''''[Abductive had no hyperlink.]'''''
::curprev 16:13, 31 January 2025 Grutness talk contribs  37,713 bytes +24  links, tone cleanup needed undothank
::curprev 17:17, 17 January 2025 Historyguy1138 talk contribs  37,615 bytes +4,632  added details about the background and aftermath of the Bombardment of Greytown. "content partially copied from Mosquito Coast on 17 January 2025 undothank Tag: Visual edit
::I will familiarize myself with the “better articles” article.
::I was not referring to actual e-mails. I was referring to the notice-emails one receives when changes are made to something they’ve worked on — like the 36 I got leading up to Hawkeye7’s B-Level bestowment.
::I have had a watchlist set up to receive notices. When I checked my watchlist recently, the Bombardment of Greytown article was on it, listed thusly: Bombardment of Greytown talk | history.
::From my response about my watchlist just above, can you conjecture as to why I never received an email notice regarding the substantial editorial additions or the “tone” template placement?
::Thanks again for all your help! [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 17:25, 10 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Frankly, I don't see how you could have received 36 notices of any sort. There were only 12 edits to the article after your last edit. Four of them were technical or style changes by bots. Only one was a substantial addition by User:Historyguy1138. You have been notified or become aware of some of the those 12 edits. Who sent these 36 notifications? If they were in your notification page, they would not have come from "Wikipedia" unless you were mentioned in an edit or article talk page entry or some user whose name you would see sent them to you by directly and was specifically mentioning you by user name. No one is obligated to do that. While one could conjecture about spamming, I don't see how that could be a possibility, although some vandals are creative.
:::The notices were not on your user talk page or they could be found in the history of page and I don't see any there. You wrote that they did not come by email, although you continue to use that term, which is inaccurate and could be confusing. Users can not see other users' watchlists but with the few edits that were made after your last one, you would not have seen more than the 12 edits on the article watchlist. And these are purged from the watchlists quite regularly as the instructions/information page show. The only other option would be that you received notifications that you need to see by clicking on the notification tab on your user page. No one else can see those but I don't see how you could have received many, if any. Again, these would almost always say who sent them and with a mention of you. And, again, it raises a question about who placed the notices there, not to mention why they would have done so.
:::I can only repeat that previous editors are not notified about changes to articles that they have worked on unless the user making the changes specifically notifies a previous editor. That's the main reason you need to watch the articles yourself, usually through a watchlist that you need to consult or by frequently visiting the page. Unless an editor wants to have a discussion about a change or specifically wants you to be advised that the change or addition has been made, you will not receive a notice from them or from "Wikipedia" in general. One can hardly imagine the number of bytes that would be used, and essentially spam created, if every user who had ever edited an article (not just started one, which you did not do with this article anyway) received notices directly by the project about all future edits. This would frequently run into the millions over short periods of time. 
:::So you did not receive notices of further edits or template placement because such notices are not routinely or automatically given. In a few situations, the editor might notify you of a change that they think might concern you but that is neither usual nor expected. Editors have no obligation to send such notices. The assumption is that if a user cares about an article, they will watch it and see changes on their watchlist. 
:::I hope this clarifies the notices situation. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:02, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Sorry, Donner. Mea culpa! It was not 36 email notifications. It was more like 12 or 13. I was conflating irrelevant notifications with those about the Bombardment of Greytown page. This is my first attempt at a Wikipedia project, and I have found some of the procedures daunting. I think I did rather well learning the coding and the protocols necessary to upgrade the piece. It required very little tweaking to get it accepted at the B Level. As an uninitiated layman, I thought the matter was closed at that time, and I took a break from it. Now, thanks to you, I know “No article is ever closed.”
::::And thanks to feedback from PrimeHunter and Graham87, I’ve set up a bookmark to my Special:Watchlist, so I can check it regularly!
::::Thanks again for all your help!  [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 19:48, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::No problem. I was new here once and no doubt had to learn the guidelines, policies, style, nuances and protocols. I did find some aspects of editing daunting, but I thought I could catch on if I stuck to it. Now I have been around for nearly 15 years. As with most people, I still make some mistakes and need to make some corrections or improvements to my writing or actions. I think that is mainly an overall benefit to and for a collective project.
:::::You are off to a good start. While there is some new advice for new users around, all of it is not especially obvious and one needs to know how to search it out or get the information from a more experienced user. New users who are off to a good start need to be encouraged and not be put off. That is a policy here and I try to help put it into effect, as best I can.
:::::If I seemed a little too critical, it was not my intent. I wanted to set forth the information as straightforwardly as I could. I do tend to be a little verbose at times. Keep up the good work. If you have not done so already, you might want to read [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Military history]] and [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style]]. There are quite a few sub-pages as well but they do treat some of topics in more depth. At least you can keep in mind that there are pages you can consult for guidance if you are unsure about a style topic.
:::::Keep up the good work. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:34, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::Thanks again, Donner.
::::::I really appreciate the effort you made here to get back to me on the apprehensions I was obviously feeling. It is most reassuring. 
::::::I have bookmarked the links you sent me to the general manual of style and the military manual of style. I think I will look at the military one first. 
::::::Each day I’m picking up on more of the breadcrumb cues that appear throughout the various messages, giving hints as to what they’re about and whether they’re relevant to what I’m doing or not.
::::::I am feeling more and more sense of community and I already have a new project in mind. It is about a wonderful British World War II film comedy called the Tawny Pippit, about which there is already a start class article.
::::::Thanks again. [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 16:26, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Hi, Donner
:::::::Historyguy1138 and I have come to a meeting of the minds over his changes to my B-level expansion of the Bombardment of Greytown. The changes and additions are mostly mine, inspired by suggestions from him and approved by him.  https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Historyguy1138&diff=prev&oldid=1288574147 
:::::::The bulk of the changes involve my replacing the five initial paragraphs of the Prelude section with five new paragraphs. Then I added four graphs to the end of the article in two new sections: Post Bombardment Central America and Greytown’s Ultimate Fate. (The other changes are much smaller and described in the edit summaries for them.)
:::::::Thanks for all your previous help, and I hope you like the changes. I have sent similar notifications to Hawkeye7 and Grutness. Once I’ve heard back from all three of you and resolved any problems you’ve noticed, I am going to embark on an effort to increase the number of images in the article. I will inform you and the others when those additions are complete. [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 19:19, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::{{ping|Will-DubDub|Historyguy1138}} Great work and great learning experience. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 22:37, 5 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::I have added new images to this article – 22 of them! I have also alerted Hawkeye7, Grutness, and Historyguy1138. [[User:Will-DubDub|Will-DubDub]] ([[User talk:Will-DubDub|talk]]) 21:47, 22 May 2025 (UTC)

== Contest Assessments and Shortening Long Articles ==

Hey Donner, I have two questions relating to [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|WP:MILHIST]] and the [[Leopard 2A4M CAN]] article.

First, if an article is rerated after its initial rating, should I change the points and everything in the contest entries? [[Leopard 2A4M CAN]] got rerated to start class by another editor, should I update the contest entry to reflect that?

Second, for the case of articles like [[Leopard 2]] that are marked as "too long", if I create a sub-article should I remove the corresponding information in the main article to shorten it? I took a bit of the Leopard 2A4M CAN prose directly from the main article, so I could remove that from the main article right? I'm wondering about this because I like armored vehicles and I'd definitely make it a project of mine to create sub-articles for Leopard 2 variants if it would help shorten the main article.

Thanks, [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 12:52, 10 March 2025 (UTC)

:If you make a change to the article and it is re-rated because of that change, by the bot or by an assessor, you can change the contest entry. Note that it needs to be a substantial change. If someone makes a substantial change and you have only made trivial changes, they can claim the contest points. This reassessment credited to another editor usually happens if someone else expands or improves an article in a later month, or even a later year, not immediately after the original author or substantial editor has worked on it.
:If the substantial change that an editor makes in an article and the new assessment is made in that month, you can change the contest entry by the end of the month. Often, a day or so worth of grace time is given by the coordinator who closes the contest in the event the new assessment is made on the last day of the month and could not have been seen by the editor until the end of the month. Otherwise, if the points for the expansion or improvement are not claimed for the month of the reassessment, they are lost.
:In the case of Leopard 2A4M CAN, you not only finished the substantial changes in the next month. More importantly, even if you had made the changes resulting in the reassessment in the previous month, they can still be claimed in the month in which the reassessment was made. And it is clear that the changes were finished in the next month and the reassessment was made immediately after you changes were made. The later changes were insubstantial and too late to claim points for the new assessment. Points could be claimed by someone else if a further higher reassessment were made base on those changes.
:The contest rules and instruction page [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Contest]] is the page to see for the rules, although in fact the nuances mentioned above may not be completely clear.
:Since you have already received points for the first assessment in the previous month, the points claimed for the next assessment do not start from zero but from the values shown in the table on the contest page. In the case of [[Vought SB2U Vindicator]], the contest entry for March is correct as the March assessment was an increase from start to B class, 5 points, taking place in that later month.
:Some users consider articles too long when I think they are not quite over the edge. [[Leopard 2]], is definitely too long. Occasionally, an article can be shortened through careful revisions but often it does require the creation of sub-articles. In that case, an editor will usually try to make a brief mention that the sub-article is now the main article for that topic (through the template link referring a reader to that article.) It is best to give as short a summary as possible of the substance of that new article. I have seen a few articles where the links to the main article are mentioned under sub-topics with no summary or with a single entry referring to the main articles.
:This is explained in greater detail, and no doubt much more clearly than in the previous paragraph, in [[Wikipedia:Article size]]. This is certainly needed for this topic and I am glad you are planning to take the time to shorten Leopard 2. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:39, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:Thanks for the thorough reply! For the case of the [[Leopard 2A4M CAN]], I was more referring to the fact that it was rerated to start-class ''after'' you initially put it as B-class. I'm just trying to figure out if I should lower the amount of points gained or keep it as the original none->B-class improvement.
:I did also shorten the section for the Leopard 2A4M CAN in [[Leopard 2]] while keeping a brief summary about the variant in the main article. I can definitely see a multitude of potential sub-articles for that page, so it'll give me a good goal to pursue.
:Thanks, [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 18:01, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::Ferré-class submarine was actually the article that was re-rated to start by a user with a large number of edits over several years. However, this user expressed animosity towards the Wikiproject Military History some years ago (it is in his edit history) and withdrew his membership from the project. I do not agree with the re-rating because this is not the same type of article as the battleship article and I think it is not comparable. There is only a limited amount of information that would be available and helpful. 
::But I looked at his talk page where you placed a question about the re-rating. A few of the suggestions appear to be rather small changes which I think you can make easily and would improve the article. I would recommend you to do that before we proceed to a final decision on the rating for the contest. We have until the end of the month to settle on what rating should be displayed in the contest. With some editing, a further re-rating may be less controversial. Also, the contest rules allow the claim of a higher rating than the current one if the contestant intends to improve the article to that rating by the end of the month and the coordinator waits until the end of the month to give a final confirmation. I may need to blank my confirmation until you make some additions or edits to the article.
::I may in the meantime discuss this with another coordinator. It is unusual to see an editor, especially one not connected with the project now, to reverse a coordinators rating. (Not that I am perfect and above correction, appropriate constructive criticism or improvement suggestions.) I will also see whether I can find any instructions that support some of the changes requested. I thought I would reply before doing that because I may put that search off for a short time.
::In the worst case, you (or I) would need to reduce the rating at the end of the month but you could still claim the additional points in a later month in which the article is improved by you. Meanwhile, you might also want to read [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Military history]]. That will be the first, perhaps the only, page that I will look to for further guidance. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:16, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
:::Understood, the improvements he requested don't seem all that difficult to make so I will get it as close to the acceptable level as possible before the end of the current period. [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 23:40, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::I have already looked at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Military history]]. It won't be the only place I look because the article does not have the level of specificity needed to determine exactly what is required and what is optional for a rating with respect to ships. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:44, 15 March 2025 (UTC)
::::Last note for tonight: [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ships/Guidelines]] is of some further guidance on the requirements for a ship article but the level of specificity about certain points in a B class assessment are not readily apparent to me. At a certain point, perhaps this may become more of judgment call than an absolute requirement. In any event, I am glad you are undertaking some further work on the article. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:33, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::I just implemented an expansion to the [[Ferré-class submarine]] article I made today from my sandbox. I expanded each section, included a historical background, and replaced most non-academic sources with better ones. Let me know what you think. [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 01:20, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::I see one thing the re-rater might nitpick. All of the general characteristics in the infobox are not in the article. So they do not have citations. You can either add all the specifications to the text with specifications. Also, you can add citations to the "General Characteristics" heading that in total cover all of the citations. It appears from the citations in the text that one citation would not cover them all but you can use only one if they are all mentioned in the one publication. I would be confident in simply re-rating back to B after that. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:32, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I expanded the specifications section to include those from the infobox. I was able to use one source for all the specifications except diving depth, which I can only find info on from navypedia.org. I might try reaching out to them to see where they found the diving depth as 30m, but for now I'm unable to find another source that supports it. [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 15:27, 22 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::Thanks. I have reassessed the article as B class. If you can find another source without putting in much extra time, it might be worth avoiding a further question - though I don't think a further question ought to be raised. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 07:01, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Awesome, thanks so much. [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 10:24, 24 March 2025 (UTC) [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 10:24, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::What kind of extra expansion/refinement is necessary to get an article to GA or A? If I added images and found a reliable source for the diving depth, would those be steps to that level? [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 13:39, 24 March 2025 (UTC) [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 13:39, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Yes. There are some submarine class and other warship good articles that are about the same length. Some reviewers may look for a few facts that are not in the article or suggest some changes. You need to respond to questions or apparent requirements on the review page and in the article. Be familiar with [[Wikipedia:Good article criteria]] and [[Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions]] if you are not already. The criteria are similar to B class but may be applied a little more strictly. I don't do GA reviews on articles that I have assessed as B class. Usually I would likely have few suggestions or comments so a new and more thorough review would be the best. I also think a B review by me would disqualify me from being an "independent reviewer". My involvement with GAs has been limited to helping keep a GA assessment after a GA reassessment request. I don't work on those often, unless I know the topic to some extent and have some time to devote to it promptly. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 06:32, 26 March 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::::Ok, thank you. I'll familiarize myself with GA criteria and the nomination/review process. [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 10:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC) [[User:Tylermack999|Tylermack999]] ([[User talk:Tylermack999|talk]]) 10:59, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

== Regarding Baldwin's Tower ==

Hi, I'm ''Sparkle & Fade'', the editor for the [[Baldwin's Tower]] article. In your edit summary, you commented "lacks dimensions of tower, additional construction info and use would be helpful". But after digging through Google Books for five pages, I couldn't find anything regarding the original construction or use, nor the architectural details of the tower. All I find is the tower is mostly notable for Baldwin's incarceration and death and not much else. If you could give me more advice on this, it would be highly appreciated. Thanks! —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 08:19, 19 April 2025 (UTC)

:Those are characteristics of similar articles on medieval fortifications. I think reviewers generally would not assess the article higher than C as it stands even realizing the additional details to make the article more comprehensive might not be discoverable. I understand the difficulty in finding sufficient detail and sources to get the article up to B class. I have encountered the same problem of not being able to satisfy assessor's judgments on b2 on a few articles that I have written or tried to improve over the years. Recently I was able to find enough to boost the rating after further research. In a few others, I simply had to give up.<br> 
:I am lucky that over the years I have been able to build a large personal military history library but almost all of it is about 18th century to mid-20th century wars and topics. So I would be in the same position you are in having to look around to find more sources. I won't go so far to say some other assessor could not find that what you have is enough for B class. If you think it meets B class, put it up again for a second opinion and add that I wrote that it would be fine with me for another assessor to give it another look. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 10:44, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
::Eh, I think you're right. As it stands, I think it might just ''not be possible'' to make this article B-class as it stands despite being completely, similar to how [[WP:permastubs|permastubs]] work. Either way, I'll continue digging for sources, and I will likely just drop it if I'm still not satisfied. Anyhow, thanks for the advice! —[[User: Sparkle &#38; Fade|''Sparkle and Fade'']] ([[User_talk:Sparkle &#38; Fade|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Sparkle &#38; Fade|contributions]]) 11:19, 19 April 2025 (UTC)
:::If you have not tried them, try jstor.org and archive.org. JSTOR is not entirely a pay site. Old public domain articles and even some newer ones are available without a subscription. Also, try archive.org. From the home page you will see a box to click over to the Internet Archive books. There are nearly 5 million books available. Some are copies of the same book or later editions, others may not be of much value. I have found usable materials in the past on both of these sites.<br> 
:::Searches can be a little frustrating for me because I find that sometimes too many results show up. On the other hand, I can narrow the search occasionally. Scrolling through hundreds of results usually does not take too much time because the title or the brief summary can lead to eliminating some choices and looking at some that seem more promising. Many results are in the public domain or can be accessed in some way. Results from these two sources are not likely to show up in a common web source.<br>
:::There are a few other sites like the Hathi Trust web site which have some useful information about sources that are not readily findable. You also can get access to other sources at [[ Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library]]. If I had not been concentrating on sources that I have readily available or just the common web search, I would have mentioned these other research sources. Good luck at finding something if you want to spend some more time on this. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:03, 20 April 2025 (UTC)

== Assessment Request ==

Hello. I'm writing this message on the talk page to ask a favor of you as the coordinator for the Military History Project. I would be grateful if you could review the bot-generated assessment for the [[Kim Yŏn'gwang]] article I recently created. The bot rated it as a C, but I think it could be a B. If there are deficiencies in the article, I would greatly appreciate your feedback. Of course, if you're busy, please feel free to ignore this. Thank you very much. [[User:Fbgpwns5277|Fbgpwns5277]] ([[User talk:Fbgpwns5277|talk]]) 13:10, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

:There are two instances of Korean characters in the first short paragraph of Early life and career that are without footnotes. That is the only thing I see in the article as a possible reason for the bot to rate the article as C rather than B. If you can add footnotes for those two, let me know and I will upgrade the article assessment. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 23:08, 22 June 2025 (UTC)
::Thank you very much for taking the time and effort to review! I've added footnotes for Korean characters you mentioned. Thank you!!! [[User:Fbgpwns5277|Fbgpwns5277]] ([[User talk:Fbgpwns5277|talk]]) 23:41, 22 June 2025 (UTC)

== In appreciation ==

{| style="border: 2px solid {{{border|#8000FF}}}; background-color: {{{color|#FFFAF0}}};" |
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:GA barnstar.png|100px]]
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==Happy First Edit Day!==
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== Assessment ==

Hi @[[User:Donner60|Donner60]], I saw that [[Great Retreat (Serbia)]] is still rated Start-class. Just checking whether that was intentional or if there's anything in particular you think is missing, happy to make any improvements needed. Many thanks in advance and thanks again for all your amazing work on the Assessment/Requests page! [[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 14:55, 27 July 2025 (UTC)

:I "put the cart before the horse" and was not careful. I haven't done it for some time, but on a few occasions I put a reply on the assessment talk page before changing the assessment on the article talk page. Then, I forgot to go back and make the re-assessment on the article talk page. A related mistake, I suppose, would be to make the change and then forget to save it. I have probably done that once or twice as well. Thank you for pointing this out. Otherwise, I was likely to be oblivious to the mistaken omission. Added about 25 minutes later: I have changed the assessment to B class. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 00:47, 28 July 2025 (UTC)
::@[[User:Donner60|Donner60]] Thanks so much for the update! really appreciate you taking the time to correct it. Totally understand how that can happen thanks again for all your steady work! -[[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 05:53, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

== Grateful to Donner60 ==

== Appreciated guidance and review ==
{{The Original Barnstar|1=Thank you, Donner60, for your straightforward review of the “Charles Thau” article. Your expertise (and time) to help get my 1st wiki article to B‑class status are deeply appreciated.}}
— [[User:Milwaukee911|Milwaukee911]] ([[User talk:Milwaukee911|talk]]) 07:25, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

== In appreciation ==

{| style="border: 2px solid {{{border|#8000FF}}}; background-color: {{{color|#FFFAF0}}};" |
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:GA barnstar.png|100px]]
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== Administrators' newsletter – August 2025 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (July 2025).

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[[File:Wikipedia Administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Administrator changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-add.svg|20px|alt=added|Added]] {{hlist|class=inline
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|CoconutOctopus]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|Curbon7]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|Hinnk]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|Jlwoodwa]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|Kj cheetham]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|KylieTastic]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1303583687#AELECT_results_certified|Ser!]]
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:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline
|[[Special:Permalink/1299048466#Wikipedia:Administrator recall/Bbb23|Bbb23]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1300007972#Desysop (Beeblebrox)|Beeblebrox]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1300181190#Desysop request (David Gerard)|David Gerard]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1301547492#Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1298182144#Wikipedia:Inactive administrators/2025#July 2025|Satori Son]]
}}

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[[File:Checkuser Logo.svg|20px|alt=]] '''CheckUser changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|Alison]]|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|Bradv]]|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|Joe Roe]]|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|RickinBaltimore]]|[[m:Special:PermaLink/28973472#ST47@en.wikipedia|ST47]]}}

[[File:Oversight logo.png|20px|alt=]] '''Oversight changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|Bradv]]|[[Special:PermaLink/1303430433#Changes to the functionaries team, July 2025|RickinBaltimore]]}}

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[[File:Green check.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Guideline and policy news'''
* Following [[Wikipedia talk:Speedy deletion#RFC: New CSD for unreviewed LLM content|a request for comment]], a new speedy deletion criterion, [[WP:G15|G15]], has been enacted. It applies to pages generated by a [[large language model]] (LLM) without human review.
* Following [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Temporary account IP-viewer|a request for comment]], there is [[WP:TAIV|a new policy]] outlining the granting of permissions to view the IP addresses of [[mw:Trust and Safety Product/Temporary Accounts|temporary accounts]]. Temporary account deployment on the English Wikipedia is currently scheduled for September 2025, and editors can [[WP:PERM/TAIV|request access to the permission]] ahead of time. Admins are encouraged to keep an eye on the request page; there will likely be a flood of editors requesting the permission when they realize they can no longer see IP addresses.

[[File:Octicons-tools.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Technical news'''
* Administrators can now restrict the "Add a Link" feature to newcomers. The [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Help:Growth/Tools/Add a link|"Add a Link"]] Structured Task [[mw:Special:MyLanguage/Growth/Constructive activation experimentation#Enwiki A/B test & "Add a Link" Improvements (Wiki Experiences 1.2.11 & 1.2.16)|helps new account holders get started with editing]]. Administrators can configure this setting in the [[Special:CommunityConfiguration/GrowthSuggestedEdits|Community Configuration]] page.

[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Arbitration'''
* The arbitration case ''[[Special:Permalink/1301421643#Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Indian military history closed|Indian military history]]'' has been closed.
** South Asia ([[WP:CT/SA]]) is designated a [[WP:Contentious topics|contentious topic]]. The topic area is specifically defined as {{tq|All pages related to the region of [[South Asia]] (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh and Nepal), broadly construed, including but not limited to history, politics, ethnicity, and social groups.}}
** The contentious topic designations for [[WP:CT/SL|Sri Lanka]] (SL) and [[WP:CT/IPA|India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan]] (IPA) are folded into this new contentious topic.
** The community-authorized general sanctions regarding [[Wikipedia:General sanctions/South Asian social groups|South Asian social groups]] (GS/CASTE) are rescinded and folded into this new contentious topic.
* The arbitration case ''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Article titles and capitalisation 2|Article titles and capitalisation 2]]'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case closed on 31 July.
* The arbitration case ''[[Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Transgender healthcare and people|Transgender healthcare and people]]'' has been opened. Evidence submissions in this case will close on 11 August.

[[File:Info Simple bw.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Miscellaneous'''
* [[:wikimania:2025:Wikimania|Wikimania 2025]] is happening in [[Nairobi]], [[Kenya]], and online from August 6 to August 9. This year marks 20 years of [[Wikimania]]. Interested users can join the online event. Registration for the virtual event is free and will remain open throughout Wikimania. You can [[:wikimania:2025:Registration|register here]] now.

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== ''The Signpost'': 9 August 2025 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2025-08-09}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 10--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2025-08-09|Single-page]] * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] * [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 02:22, 9 August 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script ([[User:JPxG/SPS]]) --></div></div>
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== In appreciation ==

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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | This is presented to you by [[WP:GAR|the GAR process]] in recognition of your sterling work in helping [[Edward Porter Alexander]] retain its Good Article status. Please feel free to display the GA icon on your userpage. Keep up the good work! [[User:AirshipJungleman29|&#126;~ AirshipJungleman29]] ([[User talk:AirshipJungleman29|talk]]) 14:41, 11 August 2025 (UTC)
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== In appreciation ==

{| style="border: 2px solid {{{border|#8000FF}}}; background-color: {{{color|#FFFAF0}}};" |
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:GA barnstar.png|100px]]
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | This is presented to you by [[WP:GAR|the GAR process]] in recognition of your sterling work in helping [[Siege of Fort William Henry]] retain its Good Article status. Please feel free to display the GA icon on your userpage. Keep up the good work! [[User:AirshipJungleman29|&#126;~ AirshipJungleman29]] ([[User talk:AirshipJungleman29|talk]]) 15:01, 11 August 2025 (UTC)
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== Analyses ==

Re: [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/News/August_2025/Book_reviews&curid=80594480&diff=1305444358&oldid=1305128038] The original spelling is the correct form in Australian English. [[User:Hawkeye7|<span style="color:#800082">Hawkeye7</span>]] [[User_talk:Hawkeye7|<span style="font-size:80%">(discuss)</span>]] 05:04, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

:Thanks. I tried to look it up but could not find it anywhere. So I decided to change it. Sorry that you had to change it back. I should know better about alternate spellings by now and leave them alone. Thanks for the info and reminder. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:09, 12 August 2025 (UTC)

== ''The Bugle'': Issue 232, August 2025 ==

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''The Bugle'' is published by the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|Military history WikiProject]]. To receive it on your talk page, please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Members|join the project]] or sign up [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3#Non-members who want delivery|here]].<br/>If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3|this page]]. Your editors, [[User:Ian Rose|Ian Rose]] ([[User talk:Ian Rose|talk]]) and [[User:Nick-D|Nick-D]] ([[User talk:Nick-D|talk]]) 10:56, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
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== [[Battle of Arkansas Post]] ==

Donner, could you please watchlist this? It's scheduled to run as TFA on September 9 but I'm not going to be able to monitor it for vandalism/errors for a good chunk of the day because I'll be very busy with work. [[User:Hog Farm|Hog Farm]] <sub> ''[[User talk:Hog Farm|Talk]]''</sub> 21:07, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

:I'll keep an eye on this. I should be online, at least briefly, each day. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 22:38, 31 August 2025 (UTC)

::{{@MILHIST}}{{ping|Djmaschek|TwoScars|BusterD|Swatjester|Keith-264|Sturmvogel 66|Zawed}} Looking back at this, I have realized that Hog Farm's main concern about potential vandalism/errors in this article is about such problems on the day this article will run as a featured article, not just during the days before as I read his post. As it turns out, I am giving a presentation on the evening of September 9, so I will probably be online early during the run time (UTC)(since it starts earlier than midnight in the U.S.) but only briefly, if at all, later that day. I think it would be a good idea for others to keep an eye on this for vandalism/errors on September 8-9 as well. I assume administrators other than those pinged probably look at the featured articles daily but I think it would be a good idea for those interested in military history to look at this from time to time on that day as well. I have seen vandalism and errors in featured articles and I am sure most or all of you have as well. So it is not necessarily an unlikely or frivolous concern. Thanks. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:06, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
:::Added to my watchlist, will keep a look out. [[User:Swatjester|<span style="color:red">⇒</span>]][[User_talk:Swatjester|<span style="font-family:Serif"><span style="color:black">SWAT</span><span style="color:goldenrod">Jester</span></span>]] <small><sup>Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!</sup></small> 03:10, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
::::I'll try and keep an eye on it as far as I am able given I will be working as well. [[User:Zawed|Zawed]] ([[User talk:Zawed|talk]]) 07:52, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::I should be in front of a computer that morning. Appreciate the ping. [[User:BusterD|BusterD]] ([[User talk:BusterD|talk]]) 10:06, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
::::::Added to my 1-month watchlist. [[User:TwoScars|TwoScars]] ([[User talk:TwoScars|talk]]) 16:16, 2 September 2025 (UTC)
:::::::I've watchlisted it as well.--[[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 20:48, 2 September 2025 (UTC)

== Nomination for WikiProject Military history coordinators is now open! ==

Nominations for the upcoming [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history]] coordinator election have opened. A team of up to ten coordinators will be elected for the next coordination year. The project coordinators are the designated points of contact for issues concerning the project, and are responsible for maintaining our internal structure and processes. They do not, however, have any authority over article content or editor conduct, or any other special powers. More information on being a coordinator is available [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Academy/Becoming a coordinator|here]]. If you are interested in running, please sign up '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators/September 2025|here]]''' by 23:59 UTC on 14 September! Voting will commence on 15 September. If you have any questions, you can contact any member of the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Coordinators|current coord team]]. [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 00:02, 1 September 2025 (UTC)
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== Administrators' newsletter – September 2025 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (August 2025).

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== ''The Signpost'': 9 September 2025 ==

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== ''The Bugle'': Issue 233, September 2025 ==

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{|
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* Project news: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/September 2025/Project news|From the editors; awards and honours; contest results]]''
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* Book review: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/September 2025/Book reviews|Hawkeye7 and Nick-D look at recent works]]''
* Timeline: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/This month in military history/September|This month in military history]]''
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''The Bugle'' is published by the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|Military history WikiProject]]. To receive it on your talk page, please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Members|join the project]] or sign up [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3#Non-members who want delivery|here]].<br/>If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3|this page]]. Your editors, [[User:Ian Rose|Ian Rose]] ([[User talk:Ian Rose|talk]]) and [[User:Nick-D|Nick-D]] ([[User talk:Nick-D|talk]]) 11:53, 26 September 2025 (UTC)
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== Newish user with Civil war new article question ==

I was thinking of creating a CW wiki page for the Battle of James City 

https://emergingcivilwar.com/2015/10/10/a-spectator-would-have-said-that-the-opponents-were-afraid-of-each-other-the-battle-of-james-city/

Should I create one and have it reviewed on the military history group? How do I create the geohack page with all the geolocation links? And where do I find casualties? I just saw one mention in the War of the rebellion records. 

I made this one:

[[1st Maryland Cavalry Battalion (Confederate)]]

already but no battle pages. Thanks qstor2 [[User:Qstor2|Qstor2]] ([[User talk:Qstor2|talk]]) 18:23, 1 October 2025 (UTC)

:See the pages listed at [[Template:Navigation and positioning systems]]. If that does not provide an answer, you could ask a question at [[Wikipedia:Teahouse]]. The archive of past questions is so massive, I am not sure whether you can find the answer from the archives of that page. I am not familiar with the templates. I have copied some from existing articles and determined how to use them so many years ago, I would need to relearn them myself.
:At https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015026937642&seq=935, you will find that Dyer's Compendium, a comprehensive work from 1904 which is the public domain, has an entry for October 10, 1863, which shows the Union casualties at 10 dead, 40 wounded. There are a few other compilations or sources for Union records but you would need to search them out. Dyer is a frequently used source. 
:Confederate casualties are more difficult to find overall, especially for small engagements. Even estimates are rarely found unless an author has tracked down some entry in the Official Records or some other source. Many Confederate records were destroyed near or at the end of the war. I don't know about any alternate sources besides the Official Records and the works of authors on specific subjects offhand.
:In some cases, for new or relatively new editors, asking for a review at [[Wikipedia:Articles for creation]] is probably the best first step. For military history articles, you can request a peer review. See [[Wikipedia:Peer review]]. You will see that requests there can be directed to the military history project where one, sometimes more than one, users will provide comments. If you ask for an assessment, you may just get an assessment grade and often not much advice, other than a few general comments, on how to improve or upgrade the article. So that is not the best alternative for a more thorough review. I think that peer review is the best option to receive more comments.
:[[Wikipedia:Reviewing]], a list of pages to consult about reviews at different levels or for other purposes, might have more information about reviews and reviewing overall. 
:If you do not have the Backus and Orrison book, I can tell you that you find only a little more information than in Orrison's article about his upcoming book, the one just noted. I have a copy. The Confederate casualty figures are not given. There are a few more facts than there are in the earlier review. Other books that might have information about this action include Hunt, Jeffrey Wm. ''Meade and Lee at Bristoe Station: The Problems of Command and Strategy After Gettysburg, from Brandy Station to the Buckland Races, August 1 to October 31, 1863''. El Dorado Hills, CA: Savas Beatie LLC, 2019. {{ISBN|978-1-61121-396-6}} and Tighe, Adrian G. ''The Bristoe Campaign: General Lee's Last Strategic Offensive with the Army of Northern Virginia, October 1863''. Bloomington, IN: Xlibris Corp., 2011. {{ISBN|978-1-4535-4990-2}}.
:There are a number of online sources that can be accessed, even without a subscription in you do not need to download an article. JSTOR comes to mind. I can access, but not download, up to 100 articles per month. One problem I have with JSTOR is that the search engine returns far more results than are useful from the search items that I submit. I often don't need to look through all of them to find a few that appear to be useful (or occasionally to give up in frustration, I must admit)  I am not sure whether the viewing of 100 articles was a break given to those who signed up during covid and has been extended for such users or whether it is genuinely available. In any event, JSTOR allows anyone to view old or government articles that are in the public domain without registering. You can find other sources at [[Wikipedia:The Wikipedia Library]].
:In general, you usually may get more information from more than one editor by asking such questions on the [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history]]. On a question relating to the American Civil War, I am glad to answer a question as best I can. So I might have answered on that page as well. There are other experienced editors who answer questions posed on that page as well. Some know as much or more than I do about the war and about some of them know more about templates and the like. I am by no means an expert on that topic. 
:I think you may have enough information to write an article on this action. I tend to be in favor of adding articles on small engagements, especially if there were casualties and some detail can be given, including where they fit into the scheme of things. Some might think that adding a section to the [[Bristoe campaign]] article would be enough. I think that a small summary of this action should be added to that article in any event since the campaign article now does not include anything about it. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 09:13, 3 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks! I appreciate the pointers! I do have the Backus and Orrison. I'll submit the article for review and edit the Bristoe campaign page to add the battle. [[User:Qstor2|Qstor2]] ([[User talk:Qstor2|talk]]) 21:28, 5 October 2025 (UTC)
:::I asked about the casualties because the OR shows that one unit the 120th NY reported 114 casualties. But I didn't see anything for Kirkpatrick cavalry. 
:::See towards the bottom of the page re 120th NY:
:::https://www.jggscivilwartalk.online/index.php?threads/battle-of-james-city.2313/
:::So I'm a tiny bit confused as to use the 50 from Dyer or the 114.
:::I found a free original source at:
:::https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29660/29660-h/29660-h.htm
:::and an article in the NYT from 1863 on the battle:
:::https://timesmachine.nytimes.com/timesmachine/1863/10/25/78709484.html?pageNumber=8
:::So I think I'm set for sources. Just have to figure out the GeoHack page. [[User:Qstor2|Qstor2]] ([[User talk:Qstor2|talk]]) 22:32, 14 October 2025 (UTC)
::::Thanks. If I were writing this, I would use the OR and add a footnote that Dyer gives 50. I would also note that the cited sources do not give a number for the Kirkpatrick cavalry (if any). That should preclude any disagreements about sources and show that you looked at the best original and secondary sources for the numbers. 
::::Also, if someone wants to be picky about using "primary sources", you can state that you mentioned Dyer, a secondary source. Also, I think that casualty reports are not the kind of statistic that a unit commander would overestimate for any reason that I can think of at this point. Sometimes I see assertions that no primary sources should be used but I don't think the guideline is written in a way that precludes them in all situations.
::::There are suspicions, perhaps with good reason, that some original sources aren't entirely trustworthy because they want to minimize or ignore mistakes or unfavorable facts or inflate accomplishments. But if there are no other reliable sources or the ones used appear reasonable for other reasons, I don't see any trouble with citing them. I wouldn't state those comments about the sources in the article or footnotes but you could use them as answers to any talk page question or comment, or to contest any attempt to delete or revert the numbers, if necessary. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:08, 15 October 2025 (UTC)

== ''The Signpost'': 2 October 2025 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2025-10-02}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 12--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2025-10-02|Single-page]] * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] * [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 06:49, 2 October 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script ([[User:JPxG/SPS]]) --></div></div>
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== In appreciation ==

{| style="border: 2px solid {{{border|#8000FF}}}; background-color: {{{color|#FFFAF0}}};" |
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|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | This is presented to you by [[WP:GAR|the GAR process]] in recognition of your sterling work in helping [[P. G. T. Beauregard]] retain its Good Article status. Please feel free to display the GA icon on your userpage. Keep up the good work! [[User:AirshipJungleman29|&#126;~ AirshipJungleman29]] ([[User talk:AirshipJungleman29|talk]]) 15:51, 4 October 2025 (UTC)
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== Battle of Lewisburg ==

Hey Donner60 - When you get a chance, I am interested in your opinion on the new maps someone added (by replacing the originals) to the [[Battle of Lewisburg]]. There are three of them, all under "Positioning prior to battle". The three originals are in [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Battle_of_Lewisburg|Wikimedia Commons], and here is the first [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cox_Situation_May_1862.png|one]. At first, I thought they looked good, but now I am having second thoughts. Thanks, [[User:TwoScars|TwoScars]] ([[User talk:TwoScars|talk]]) 20:06, 7 October 2025 (UTC)

:One possible problem with the maps is that they show the railroads by broken lines but the railroads are not labelled within the maps themselves as they are in the original maps. The new maps may show the movements a little better since the old ones show mostly just start and end points. I can see why the creator of the maps thinks they are clearer. I waiver as to whether start and end points are displayed clearly enough in the new ones but I think they are probably clear enough. I flipped through Armstrong's book but did not see comparable maps. You probably have it but I'll note that everything in the books is in black and white, though that would not prevent it from being of some help if the maps were similar. By the way, the new maps look somewhat like ones that Hal Jespersen produced for Wikipedia, and still produces for books, as far as I know. See [[Bristoe campaign]] for an example. I hope this is of some help in your consideration of this, though I realize I haven't been completely decisive. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 03:44, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
::I'm going to revert the changes for now, given the lack of identification of the railroads and the use of "mai" instead of "miles". If anyone strongly prefers the French versions, I can live with them. Thanks for looking. [[User:TwoScars|TwoScars]] ([[User talk:TwoScars|talk]]) 19:34, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
:::Reasonable. I didn't focus on mai. In fact, I would have to look it up somewhere to see what it stands for. Thanks. 02:32, 9 October 2025 (UTC) [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 02:32, 9 October 2025 (UTC)

== In appreciation ==

{| style="border: 2px solid {{{border|#8000FF}}}; background-color: {{{color|#FFFAF0}}};" |
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | [[File:GA barnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Good Article Rescue Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 2px solid gray;" | This is presented to you by [[WP:GAR|the GAR process]] in recognition of your sterling work in helping [[Siege of Yorktown]] retain its Good Article status. Please feel free to display the GA icon on your userpage. Keep up the good work! [[User:AirshipJungleman29|&#126;~ AirshipJungleman29]] ([[User talk:AirshipJungleman29|talk]]) 08:56, 8 October 2025 (UTC)
|}

== Administrators' newsletter – October 2025 ==

[[Wikipedia:Administrators' newsletter|News and updates for administrators]] from the past month (September 2025).

[[File:ANEWSicon.png|right|150px]]

[[File:Wikipedia Administrator.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Administrator changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] {{hlist|class=inline
|[[Special:Permalink/1309166944#Inactive admins for September 2025|Billinghurst]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1309938518#Desysop request (Crisco 1492)|Crisco 1492]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1313799590#Desysop request (DarkFalls)|DarkFalls]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1309166944#Inactive admins for September 2025|Spike Wilbury]]
|[[Special:Permalink/1313197954#removal of the bit (Valereee)|Valereee]]
|[[Wikipedia:Administrator recall/Ergo Sum|Ergo Sum]]
}}

[[File:Checkuser Logo.svg|20px|alt=]] '''CheckUser changes'''
:[[File:Gnome-colors-list-remove.svg|20px|alt=removed|Removed]] [[Special:Permalink/1310632122#Changes to the functionaries team, September 2025|Vanamonde93]]

[[File:Scale of justice 2.svg|20px|alt=]] '''Arbitration'''
*After [[Special:Permalink/1313369525#CTOP/AE page protection logging|a motion]], arbitration enforcement page protections no longer need to be logged in the AELOG. A bot now automatically posts protections at [[WP:AELOG/P]]. To facilitate this bot, protection summaries must include a link to the relevant CT page (e.g. <code><nowiki>[[WP:CT/BLP]]</nowiki></code>), and you will receive talk page reminders if you forget to specify the contentious topic but otherwise indicate it is an AE action.

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* [[Wikipedia talk:Administrators' newsletter|Discuss this newsletter]]
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== ''The Signpost'': 20 October 2025 ==

<div lang="en" dir="ltr" class="mw-content-ltr"><div style="column-count:2;"> {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2025-10-20}} </div><!--Volume 21, Issue 13--> <div class="hlist" style="margin-top:10px; font-size:90%; padding-left:5px; font-family:Georgia, Palatino, Palatino Linotype, Times, Times New Roman, serif;"> * '''[[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost|Read this Signpost in full]]''' * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Single/2025-10-20|Single-page]] * [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Subscribe|Unsubscribe]] * [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 22:41, 20 October 2025 (UTC) <!-- Sent via script ([[User:JPxG/SPS]]) --></div></div>
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== Naming discussion at Battle of Maritsa ==

Hello @[[User:Donner60|Donner60]], I thought you might be interested in [[Talk:Battle of Maritsa#Skadar vs. Shkodër in 1371 context|this discussion]] about which historical name to use for a city (Skadar or Shkodër) in the 1371 context of the [[Battle of Maritsa]], per [[WP:PLACE]] and [[WP:UEGN]].
I’ve already requested a neutral comment at [[WP:3O]], so this isn’t to canvas or reopen anything, just to share the link in case you have any insight as someone familiar with the article’s earlier review. Thanks either way! -[[User:Aeengath|Aeengath]] ([[User talk:Aeengath|talk]]) 10:01, 23 October 2025 (UTC)

== Reassessment ==

I was just validating a couple of contest entries when I looked at [[Plejad-class torpedo boat]]. It's rated B, but IMO, it doesn't satisfy B2 as there's no significant info on the ships' activities. Another editor rated it at B, but I didn't want to downgrade it to a C as it properly deserves since GGOTCC is close to winning the contest this month. Plus I'm uncomfortable downgrading an article by a fellow contestant; if nothing else that can engender bad feelings. Take a look and do what you think is best. [[User:Sturmvogel 66|Sturmvogel 66]] ([[User talk:Sturmvogel 66|talk]]) 18:02, 26 October 2025 (UTC)

:I have left this message for GGOTCC: "I have looked at the contest entry for this article. It appears to be a C-class article. Please provide additional information on the ships' uses, assignments and, if applicable, activities. Then it can be confirmed as meeting criterion b2 and B class. Unless ships or ships classes are prototypes or experimental, with no significant uses, actions or deployments, this type of information is needed to reasonably cover the topic without obvious omissions. You have written such articles so I think you are already familiar with adding such information to ships articles and to the assessment criteria. On the other hand, the assessor who gave the article a B class assessment  is a new user and apparently relatively young may not have enough experience to assess B class articles, especially the b2 criterion. I am not sure why as a new user that person has stepped in to assess the article and a further look to see if there has been other such activity may be warranted. I plan to leave a message that will be somewhat encouraging but will ask the user to get more experience and watch some assessments to be able to handle this task. Thanks. Of course, you can let it go to C and upgrade it to B next month for the appropriate points. I suspect you may wish to do it this month if you can. Thanks."
:Now I may need to write a note to Tokeamour. He has an interested in military history user box. That new editor has written an article about his high school - perfectly obvious from other edits and posts. He also tried to change the Colorado Springs, Colorado article title to Colorado Springs. Comments resulted in that page retaining the "Colorado." I think the young user is probably a little too eager to get into areas which require more experience, knowledge or judgment than he now has. While a few such as Vami IV (RIP) and Hog Farm have been outstanding editors at a young age, I think they were careful and may not be typical. 
:Also, yesterday, Tokeamour asked Acroterion what it is like to be an administrator. He seems to be quite ambitious. Not surprisingly, Acroterion gave him a short, courteous and rather good summary reply. I have not seen any connection or interactions of GGOTCC with Tokeamounr. 
:Early on in his editing which started about 6 months ago, Tokeamour was taken to the Administrators noticeboard/incidents for multiple reverts, WP:OWN and disruptive editing. Not off to a good start.
:After writing my initial reply, I searched through Tokeamour's edits. Only two military history article assessments appeared. One he had right as a start. The other had to do with him not understanding differences in bot assessments and project versus overall assessments.  
:Perhaps I won't bother with an instructive and cautionary note just now in order to not stir things up. I have quite a few backlogged items to get to in addition to new matters and real life. On the other hand, this is someone who made need to be advised at some future time. If you have an opinion on sending a message to Tokeamour, let me know.
:At least I will wait to see GGOTCC's response and decide whether he clears up this one, which may moot this for the time being. Sorry for the long response, I had to think this one through, however. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 07:09, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
:Thank you for bringing this up, Sturmvogel! Donner's comment on my userpage lead me to realize that MilHist Bot was ''not'' the one who rated the article. Since I could not find much information on the class's service history, I agree that a C-rating is appropriate. I have since updated both the competition and article talk page. [[User:GGOTCC|GGOTCC]] 14:52, 27 October 2025 (UTC)
::Thanks. I only saw this after you had changed it and I confirmed the assessment. I can understand why you thought milhistbot had made the assessment. It didn't go through a request. On rare occasions an experienced user might see an article in which they are interested and assess it. In this case, however, it was a new user, out of the blue, who doesn't have the experience to be rating articles above start and has been caution a few times about other editing as well. [[User:Donner60|Donner60]] ([[User talk:Donner60#top|talk]]) 05:31, 30 October 2025 (UTC)

== ''The Bugle'': Issue 234, October 2025 ==

{| style="width: 100%;"
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{|
| [[File:The Bugle.png|250px|link=Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News|alt=Full front page of The Bugle]]
| width="100%" valign="top" | <div style="text-align: center; color: darkslategray;">'''Your Military History Newsletter'''</div>
<div style="-moz-column-count:2; -webkit-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
* Project news: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/October 2025/Project news|From the editors; awards and honours; contest results]]''
* Articles: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/October 2025/Articles|Last month's new featured and A-class content]]''
* Book review: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/News/October 2025/Book reviews|Three Wikipedia editors review five books]]''
* Timeline: ''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/This month in military history/October_2025|This month in military history]]''
</div>
|-
|}
|}
<div style="font-size: 85%; margin:0 auto; text-align:center;">
''The Bugle'' is published by the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history|Military history WikiProject]]. To receive it on your talk page, please [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Members|join the project]] or sign up [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3#Non-members who want delivery|here]].<br/>If you are a project member who does not want delivery, please remove your name from [[User:The ed17/Sandbox3|this page]]. Your editors, [[User:Ian Rose|Ian Rose]] ([[User talk:Ian Rose|talk]]) and [[User:Nick-D|Nick-D]] ([[User talk:Nick-D|talk]]) 03:59, 29 October 2025 (UTC)
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==Mediator Barnstar==
{| style="border: 1px solid gray; background-color: #fdffe7;"
|rowspan="2" style="vertical-align:middle;" | {{#ifeq:{{{2}}}|alt|[[File:Mediator Barnstar Hires.png|100px]]|[[File:MediatorBarnstar.png|100px]]}}
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Mediator Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | For your efforts in fairly mediating a lengthy and drawn-out dispute on [[Battle of Maritsa]], which ended in a suitable compromise thanks to your suggestions. Keep up the good work! [[User:Botushali|Botushali]] ([[User talk:Botushali|talk]]) 08:31, 31 October 2025 (UTC)
|}

== Welcome to the drive! ==
Welcome, welcome, welcome Donner60! I'm glad that you are joining the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Unreferenced articles/Backlog drives/November 2025|November 2025 drive]]! Please, have a cup of WikiTea, and go cite some articles.
{{center|{{Clickable button 2|Special:RandomInCategory/All articles lacking sources|Fix a random page lacking sources|class=mw-ui-progressive}}|style=margin:1em}} [[User:Cielquiparle|Cielquiparle]] ([[User talk:Cielquiparle|talk]]) 13:44, 1 November 2025 (UTC)

== November article improvement drive ==

Starting on 1 November, the month-long [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/November 2025 Article Improvement Drive|2025 Article Improvement Drive]] will target a number of content improvement areas and backlogs.  Participating editors will be in line for barnstars and other awards; articles from all aspects of the project will be eligible so there will be something for everybody.  Interested editors are encouraged to '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/November_2025_Article_Improvement_Drive#How_to_participate|sign up now!]]''' [[User:MediaWiki message delivery|MediaWiki message delivery]] ([[User talk:MediaWiki message delivery|talk]]) 20:17, 1 November 2025 (UTC)
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