Diskussion:Hedwig von Anjou

Król oder Królowa

An ihrem Krakauer Grab stand meines Erinnerns król, also König. Mir wurde erklärt, dass królowa als Ehrentitel der heiligen Maria vorbehalten ist. Siehe auch die entsprechende polnische Seite. Da gibt es allerdings einen Kommentar. Es wäre gut, wenn ein polnischer Muttersprachler den Sachverhalt klären kann - insbesondere, ob Jadwiga in der Alltagssprache wirklich Król ist. -- ZZ 22:48, 3. Jun 2006 (CEST)

In Polish "Królowa" means only "the wife of King" while Hedwig was crowned the ruler of Poland. The polish rulers were always called "Król" (= King) regardless to the sex, "Król" rules the kingdom, not "Królowa" (= Queen). When Hedwig married Jogaila, duke of Lithuania who was also crowned the King, Poland had two kings:Hedwig and Jogaila.

Also please correct the part "Sie war alleinige Regentin 1384-1386." (I don't know German enough to do it) because Hedwig was not REGENTIN, she was RULER, the real KING having the power. Merewyn.

I'm not sure about König or Königin (I asked at Portal Diskussion:Mittelalter) but I'm pretty sure, that Regentin ist correct ;o) ..Sicherlich ^Post 12:07, 25. Sep 2006 (CEST)

The claim that królowa means „wife of the king“ only makes little sense. The virgin Mary would not be called królowa then, but she is.

It would be nice, if someone contributed who is knowledgeable about this matter. -- ZZ 19:06, 25. Sep 2006 (CEST)

Król oder Królowa - the basic facts

Let's clear up the mess above, with the facts from Polish and European history :)

• 1. The crowned ruler of Poland had always the title: "Król" ("King") regardless to the sex.
• 2. It happened only two times in Polish history that a woman was chosen for the King -> Hedwig and Anna Jagiellon - both titled "KING of Poland".
• 3. The title "Królowa" meant only "the wife of the king" in Middle Ages.
• 4. In a monarchy, a REGENT was a person who due to the actual monarch's absence, incapacity or minority lead the politics of the realm. Hedwig was not a regent/regentin, she was the monarch herself! She was crowned with the crown of Polish Kings and she was the fully capable ruler - PLEASE correct this info in the article.
• 5. Our Lady Mary was never physically ruling Poland :)
• 6. Mary was called "Królowa Polski" ("Queen of Poland") for the first time in 1656 during the Polish-Swedish War (pl:Śluby Lwowskie of the king Johann II. Kasimir). The title "Królowa" for Mary was used since then for the reasons as follow:
  • a) In XVII century, the memory of the medieval meaning of the title "Królowa" as uniquely "wife of king" was fading.
  • b) the example of Queen Elisabeth I of England (called also "the queen regnant" to distinct from "queen - wife of king") showed that the title "Queen" (those times equivalent to Polish "Królowa") can be used also to describe a ruling woman.
  • c) Gramatically, even today the Polish Language has problems with feminin names for masculin titles (like dyrektor, minister). The natural construction requires adding the suffix "-owa" to the masculin names but the constructed this way words "dyrektorowa", "ministrowa" (AND "królowa") mean explicitly "the wife of director", "the wife of minister" ect. To describe a woman holding the masculine function several linguistic prosthesis are invented like "dyrektorka", "pani minister" ("lady minister") or are implanted from foreign languages like "businesswoman" (in Polish "bizneswoman"). In case of "królowa" people had chosen to give the second meaning ("ruling woman") to the existing word "wife of the king".

By Merewyn, 12:28, 26. Sep 2006 (CEST) .

Thank you very much. In order to avoid future discussions, can you also give a reference for the above? -- ZZ 12:51, 26. Sep 2006 (CEST)

With pleasure :) My knowledge bases on:

• • About Jagiellon dynasty and problems with "King" title: en:Paweł Jasienica "Polska Jagiellonów" (translated as Jagiellonian Poland).
  • en:Paweł Jasienica "Rzeczpospolita Obojga Narodów" (translated as The Commonwealth of Both Nations).
  • M.Jaworski "Gramatyka Języka Polskiego" with the great support of my mother tongue being Polish :)

Merewyn, 13:48, 26. Sep 2006 (CEST) .

Additional note, the official title was Jadwiga, król Polski (King Hedwig, in latin Hedvig Rex Poloniæ, not Hedvig Regina Poloniæ.) but it sounds very artificial (as in German) for us, like "law court-talk". In common language, we call her "Królowa Jadwiga", the Queen, because it only sounds more natural, even if this use is not correct.Merewyn 13:09, 6. Jun. 2007 (CEST)

Kindesmißbrauch?

Andere Zeiten, andere Länder, andere Sitten. Eine 11-jährige der Familie und Heimat entreissen, auf den Thron eines fremden Landes zu setzen, den ebenfalls blutjungen Verlobten zu verjagen und die 12jährige zwecks internationalem Waffenbündnis einem wildfremden alten Mann als Hochzeitsgeschenk zu verschachern sollte man unmißverständlich als Kindesmißbrauch bezeichnen. --Matthead 07:48, 22. Nov. 2007 (CET)

ich finde man sollte die sache vor das UN-Menschenrechtstribunal stellen. Zwangsverheiratung, Kindesmißbrauch und wenn man es genau betrachtet ja menschenhandel mit politischen vorteilen als gegenleistung. das ganze auf höchster politischer eben! unglaublich! Auch ein verstoß gegen die religionsfreiheit durch Jagiello .. da kommt ganz schön was zusammen ... Vielleicht ist aber eine bewertung von ereignisse von vor 600 jahren mit heutigen Maßstäben aber auch etwas anmaßend ...Sicherlich ^Post 15:16, 22. Nov. 2007 (CET) ansonsten braucht der artikel aber eine überarbeitung; dinge wie "Sie war jung, schön, musikalisch begabt,", " Zum Wohl der Christenheit nahm sie diese große Pflicht auf sich" usw. klingen doch etwas theatralisch ...Sicherlich ^Post 15:16, 22. Nov. 2007 (CET)