Diskussion:Amalgamfüllung/Archiv/1

Dies ist eine alte Version dieser Seite, zuletzt bearbeitet am 15. Januar 2005 um 13:09 Uhr durch 84.128.254.89 (Diskussion) (Amalgamdiskussion - Mein Kommentar als betroffene -). Sie kann sich erheblich von der aktuellen Version unterscheiden.

Sollte man nicht lieber die NaCl elektrolyse hier Löschen und dafür ein Link auf die richtige Seite für das Amalgamverfahren setzen?? - greetz Phillip

Den eingefügten Weblink ist etwas zwiespältig. Sicher beeinhaltet er gute Informationen, andererseits soll er Politisch wirken. Ich würde gerne eine weitere Meinung lesen. -- Stahlkocher 09:25, 30. Okt 2004 (CEST)

  • "Werden Sie aktiv! Fordern Sie das Amalgam-Verbot!" prangt groß auf der verlinkten Webseite. Vieles auf der Webseite ist keine objektive Disskussion zu dem Thema, sondern eine klare Meinungsmache kontra Amalgam. Ich bin dafür, dass der Link entfernt wird. -- Rom255 15:43, 31. Okt 2004 (CET)


  • Der Weblink enthält unzählige Informationen, die weit über die Infos auf der Seite hier hinaus gehen. Hast Du Dir die Seite und die Gerichtsurteile mal genauer durchgelesen? Der Aufruf ist eingehend begründet. Deine Aussage "Vieles auf der Webseite ist keine objektive Disskussion zu dem Thema." trifft nicht zu, es werden die Untersuchungen und wissenschaftlichen Quellen genannt.

Die Entfernung dieses weblinks sieht für mich nach Zensur aus, da diese Hintergrundinformationen gewissen Kreisen sicherlich nicht gefallen (Zahnärztekammern, Amalgamhersteller).

Siehe auch: www.amalgam-info.ch/schoendorfvortrag.htm

Es könnte ja ruhig auch ein Weblink von einem Amalgamhersteller oder der Zahnärztekammer hinzugefügt werden. So kann sich jeder Leser ein eigenes Bild machen. Schade dass in Wikipedia in dieser Form Zensur ausgeübt wird. Eine freie Enzyklopädie gewinnt gerade durch die Vielfalt der Meinungen.

Ich bin dafür, dass der Link wieder reingesetzt wird.

[soko324]

Es kann sich eh jeder Leser ein eigenes Bild machen. Wer bei Entfernung eines Weblinks von Zensur redet qualifiziert sich sowieso. Und gleich vorneweg, ich bin kein Zahnarzt und ich kriege auch kein Geld von sonstwem wofür auch immer. -- Stahlkocher 13:21, 2. Nov 2004 (CET)

Änderung von "Biokompatibilität"

Ich habe den Hinweis auf angeblich nachgewiesene, langfristige Vergiftungen durch Amalgamfüllungen entfernt, weil nach weit überwiegender Expertenmeinung (man informiere sich auf den Websites der DGZMK) wissenschaftlich nicht haltbar. Ebenso habe ich den Hinweis auf das "noch nicht" erfolgte Verbot von Amalgam entfernt: ein solches Verbot wird zwar von gewissen Leuten schon seit Jahrzehnten immer wieder gefordert, ebenso lange hat jedoch jede objektive Nachprüfung immer wieder von neuem ergeben, daß hierzu aus wissenschaftlicher Sicht kein Anlass besteht. Ein Verbot ist deshalb auch in absehbarer Zukunft nicht zu erwarten; der Hinweis, Amalgam sei "noch nicht verboten", ist nichts weiter als unseriöse Stimmungsmache.

Noch ein Wort zu dem immer wieder gehörten Vorwurf, die Zahnärztelobby würde zum Schaden der Bevölkerung das Amalgam verharmlosen: der Vorwurf ist schon allein aus wirtschaftlichen Gründen grotesk. Amalgamfüllungen gehören zu den billigsten, zahnmedizinischen Leistungen überhaupt, damit können Zahnärzte bei den heutigen, versicherungsrechtlichen Strukturen in Deutschland schon seit vielen Jahren kaum noch Geld verdienen - sehr im Gegensatz zu den Alternativen. Wer sich trotzdem heute noch die Mühe macht, angesichts der allgegenwärtigen Hysterie seine Patienten mit entsprechend aufwendiger (und natürlich unbezahlter) Beratung ausgerechnet von Amalgamfüllungen zu überzeugen, der beweist damit bewundernswerten Idealismus. Ich selber tue das nun schon seit 6 Jahren nicht mehr, weil ich die Zahnheilkunde leider nicht als Hobby betreibe, sondern von dieser Tätigkeit leben muß.

Gruß, whgreiner (Dr. med. dent. W. H. Greiner)


Amalgam ist schädlich

Sehr geehrter Herr Dr. Greiner,

was Sie machen ist unverantwortliche und unseriöse Verharmlosung von Amalgam.

Sie haben sich anscheinend noch nicht eingehender mit den toxikologischen Wirkungen von Amalgam beschäftigt. Viele Menschen sind durch Amalgam schwer krank geworden und dürfen aus politischen und juristischen Gründen die Behandlung ihrer Amalgamvergiftung aus eigener Tasche finanzieren. Es ist richtig, dass nach "weit überwiegender Expertenmeinung (man informiere sich auf den Websites der DGZMK)" immer wieder Ihre Position veröffentlicht wird. Dazu muss man aber zwischen sogenannter ("unabhängiger") Expertenmeinung und wissenschaftlichen Studien unterscheiden. Wenn das Geld stimmt, findet sich zu jeder Position schnell ein sogenannter Experte. Bei Contergan fanden sich auch schnell ein paar Experten, die noch lange behaupteten, Contergan sei völlig unschädlich. Was würde passieren, wenn Die DGZMK offiziell zugeben würde, dass Amalgam sehr schädlich ist? Könnte man es dann noch verwenden? Könnte man sich dann noch vor Schadenersatzforderungen schützen? Müssten dann nicht die Krankenkassen die Amalgamsanierung bezahlen? Und die anschliessenden Quecksilberausleitungen? Tausende wissenschaftliche Studien haben weltweit ergeben, dass Amalgam sehr schädlich für die Gesundheit ist. Es gibt keine einzige seriöse wissenschaftliche Studie (nicht "Expertenmeinung"!) die das Gegenteil beweist.

Dass hier auf Wikipedia immer wieder kritische Stimmen zu Amalgam entfernt werden, sieht leider nach Zensur aus. Amalgam zu verharmlosen kann für Betroffene schlimme Folgen haben. Will sich die Wikipedia-Community daran beteiligen?

Der Toxikologe Dr. Max Daunderer hat schon vor vielen Jahren vor Amalgam gewarnt. Auf seiner Homepage http://www.toxcenter.de hat er seine Erfahrungen zu Amalgam und anderen Giften veröffentlicht.


Hier nur eine kleine Anzahl an wissenschaftlichen Studien, die belegen, welche schlimmen Folgen Amalgam für die menschliche Gesundheit haben kann:


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Biometals. 1999 Sep; 12(3):227-31 [15] Galic N, Prpic-Mehiic G, Prester LJ, Krnic Z, Blanusa M, Erceg D: Elimination of mercury from amalgam in rats. J Trace Elem Med Biol. 2001; 15(1):1-4 [16] Hahn LJ, Kloiber R, Vimy MJ, Takahashi Y, Lorscheider FL: Dental "silver" tooth fillings: a source of mercury exposure revealed by whole-body image scan and tissue analysis. FASEB J 1989; 3:2641-2646 [17] Hahn LJ, Kloiber R, Leininger RW, Vimy MJ, Lorscheider FL: Whole-body imaging of the distribution of mercury released from dental fillings into monkey tissues. FASEB J 1990; 4:3256-3260 [18] Lorscheider FL, Vimy MJ, Summers AO: Mercury exposure from "silver" tooth fillings: emerging evidence questions a traditional dental paradigm. FASEB J 1995; 9:504-508 [19] Lorscheider FL, Vimy MJ: Mercury exposure from "silver" fillings. Lancet 1991; 337:1103 [20] Vimy MJ, Takahashi Y, Lorscheider FL: Maternal-fetal distribution of mercury (203Hg) released from dental amalgam fillings. Am. J. 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Available from: URL: http://www.dentalmaterial.gov.se/mercury.pdf [cited 2003 September 22] [255] Mercola J, Klinghardt D: Mercury toxicity and systemic elimination agents. J Nutr Environ Med 2001; 11:53-62


MfG Torben

-- Torben2005 14:50, 9. Jan 2005 (CET)


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http://www.symptome.ch/cgi-bin/cutecast/cutecast.pl?&forum=47&thread=1275

Besonders "228" und die Autoren von "37" (gleich "229") beschreiben die Situation zutreffend und nennen auch die relevante medizinische Fachabteilung.


Int J Hyg Environ Health. 2001 Dec;204(4):223-9.

"Amalgam disease"--poisoning, allergy, or psychic disorder?

Gottwald B, Traenckner I, Kupfer J, Ganss C, Eis D, Schill WB, Gieler U.

Department of Medical Psychology, University of Giessen, Germany.

Frequently, patients in environmental health out-patient units relate various complaints to their amalgam fillings. However, an association between the toxic exposure and the reported complaints appears plausible only in few cases. We investigated toxicological, allergological and psychological parameters in patients with amalgam-associated complaints and compared them to controls with similar numbers of amalgam fillings. Forty patients with health disturbances related to amalgam were compared to a control group without amalgam-associated complaints (n = 40), carefully matched for age, sex, and dental status. Mercury concentrations were analyzed in blood, saliva, and 24-h-urine. Atopic predisposition, determination of IgE, patch testing with amalgam and amalgam-associated metals and a psychometric assessment were performed in all participants. Mercury concentrations in blood or urine were similar in patients and controls. Atopic predisposition was markedly enhanced in patients (11/40) as compared to controls (5/40). Only one patient with a lichen ruber of the oral mucosa showed a contact sensitization to amalgam. Patients reported more psychic strain and higher depression scores than controls. Somatization disorders were found in 10 patients (25%) and in one control. Eighteen patients (45%) neither showed an atopic predisposition nor an influence of psychosocial factors. Toxic exposure to mercury does not appear to play a role in "amalgam disease". Since many of these patients are atopic without an "amalgam allergy", but with more psychic strain and notably more depression, the treatment should be focused on allergologic and psychological factors.


Psychol Med. 2001 Feb;31(2):255-63.

Adverse health effects related to mercury exposure from dental amalgam fillings: toxicological or psychological causes?

Bailer J, Rist F, Rudolf A, Staehle HJ, Eickholz P, Triebig G, Bader M, Pfeifer U.

Department of Clinical Psychology, Central Institute of Mental Health, Mannheim, Germany.

BACKGROUND: Possible adverse health effects due to mercury released by amalgam fillings have been discussed in several studies of patients who attribute various symptoms to the effects of amalgam fillings. No systematic relation of specific symptoms to increased mercury levels could be established in any of these studies. Thus, a psychosomatic aetiology of the complaints should be considered and psychological factors contributing to their aetiology should be identified. METHODS: A screening questionnaire was used to identify subjects who were convinced that their health had already been affected seriously by their amalgam fillings (N = 40). These amalgam sensitive subjects were compared to amalgam non-sensitive subjects (N = 43). All participants were subjected to dental, general health, toxicological and psychological examinations. RESULTS: The two groups did not differ with respect to the number of amalgam fillings, amalgam surfaces or mercury levels assessed in blood, urine or saliva. However, amalgam sensitive subjects had significantly higher symptom scores both in a screening instrument for medically unexplained somatic symptoms (SOMS) and in the SCL-90-R Somatization scale. Additionally, more subjects from this group (50% versus 4.7%) had severe somatization syndromes. With respect to psychological risk factors, amalgam sensitive subjects had a self-concept of being weak and unable to tolerate stress, more cognitions of environmental threat, and increased habitual anxiety. These psychological factors were significantly correlated with the number and intensity of the reported somatic symptoms. CONCLUSIONS: While our results do not support an organic explanation of the reported symptoms, they are well in accord with the notion of a psychological aetiology of the reported symptoms and complaints. The findings suggest that self-diagnosed 'amalgam illness' is a label for a general tendency toward somatization.


Amalgam

In Deutschland wird Amalgam immerhin nicht mehr hergestellt. Dafür stellt es Ögussa in Österreich her. Das Argument, daß Amalgam doch so gut formbar und passend verarbeitet werden kann, ist ein rein technisches Argument, das nicht mit seiner Giftigkeit zu tun hat. Nicht nur Quecksilber ist bekanntlich ein hochtoxischer Stoff, der auch noch bei Zimmertemperatur schon verdampft. Auch Silber, Kupfer, Palladium und andere mögliche Bestandteile des Zahnfüllstoffs Amalgam sind toxisch. Es gibt Studien, die nachweisen, wo überall im Körper Quecksilber, das vorher radioaktiv markiert worden war, sich anlagert. - Eine der Universitäten, die sich mit den Folgen von ständigem Quecksilberabrieb und Quecksilbereinfluß beschäftigt, ist die Uiv. of Calgary: http://commons.ucalgary.ca/mercury/. Da es offensichtlich sehr schwierig ist, sowohl die SChädlichkeit wie auch die Unschädlichkeit von Amalgam/Quecksilber/Schwermetallen nachzuweisen, sollte meiner Ansicht von Seiten der neutralen Wissenschaft so lange davon ausgegangen werden, daß Quecksilber und Schwermetalle neurotoxisch wirken, bis das Gegenteil überzeugend und eindeutig bewiesen ist. Das ist aber bisher nicht der Fall; im Gegenteil: wie im vorigen Beitrag gezeigt, mehren sich die Studien, die zeigen, daß Schwermetalle chronische Krankheiten hervorrufen können. Nur sind das anscheinend Forschungsergebnisse, die gerne totgeschwiegen werden - im Gegensatz zu Studien, die scheinbar nachweisen, daß Amalgam unschädlich ist. Was für ein Glück, daß sich Geschädigte heute im Internet informieren und gegenseitig beraten können. Von Seiten des Großteils der Ärzte, der Kassen und der Forschung haben sie diese Hilfe nicht erfahren.

Biokompatibilität von Amalgam

Ich betrachte die Möglichkeit der chronischen Vergiftung durch Amalgam als nachgewiesen (u.A. aus eigener Erfahrung), das Kieler Amalgamgutachten von 1997 ist z.B. im Internet leicht zu recherchieren. Den Artikel nur mit Verweis auf die Meinung der Zahnärztekammer zu verändern, kann ich auch nur als Zensur auffassen. Mein Vorschlag wäre, als Kompromiss beide Standpunkte darzustellen. RaiF

Amalgam-Hypochondrie

Irgendwelche "Standpunkte" von medizinisch und wissenschaftlich ausbildungslosen, desinformierten Laien, sogenannte "persönliche Erfahrungen" von Vergiftungs-Hypochondern sowie Reklame von kriminellen Betrügern ("Klinghardt", "Mutter", "Daunderer" und Komplizen), deren Geschäft allein darin besteht, Amalgam- und andere Hypochonder zu generieren und finanziell gnadenlos auszuschlachten, haben in einem seriösen Artikel nichts zu suchen. Es gibt keinen sinnvollen "Kompromiss" mit solchem Unfug. 20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)20:00, 12. Jan 2005 (CET)~ Dieses Posting spricht ja an sich für sich selbst: es ist eine reine Aufzählung von Schlagwörtern ohne auch nur eine einzige Behauptung davon in irgendeiner Form zu belegen. Man könnte es einfach weglegen und vergessen.

Schlimm ist nur, daß eben doch eine Wirkung von solchen Tiraden ausgeht, daß sich Amalgambefürworter hierdurch gestärkt fühlen und die Doktores Klinghardt und Daunderer damit in einen häßlichen und unglaubwürdigen Topf geworfen werden. Wer nimmt denn Patienten gnadenlos aus? U.a. die Zahnärzte, die erst das Amalgam in die Zähne stopfen ohne irgendeine Aufklärung zu betreiben, und die dann weitermachen mit Wurzelbehandlungen, Wurzelspitzenresektionen und dann einem Achselzucken, wenn der Patient nun endgültig fertig ist.

Amalgamdiskussion - Mein Kommentar als betroffene -