Help talk:IPA/Romansh

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Linguistics: Phonetics

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ə ~ ɐ

The author of the article is wrong about calling [ə] and [ɐ] phonemes, as these are phonetic realizations of one phoneme. We need to select one symbol (I suggest ⟨ə⟩) to represent this phoneme and stick to it. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 17:39, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, this is apparently the realization of a number of phonemes in unstressed position. If we can determine some criteria of when it is one the other (as is the case with Russian), then I would say we list them separately and use both. Otherwise, [ə] is fine. — Æµ§œš¹ _{[lɛts b̥iː pʰəˈlaɪˀt]} 18:33, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the correction. From what I see, there may be no criteria, and they may be in free variation. Anyway, we need a source for that. — Peter238 (v̥ɪˑzɪʔ mɑˑɪ̯ tˢʰoˑk̚ pʰɛˑɪ̯d̥ʒ̊) 18:59, 6 March 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The two are in free variation; both can be realizations of /a e/. This has been one of the big issues Romansh writers have argued about when standardizing Romansh, as some preferred to analyze the unstressed vowels as /a/ and others as /e/, which influenced their spelling preference. Romansh speakers tend to use [ɐ] as the unstressed version of /a/ and [ə] as unstressed /e/, but not always. Here are two sound samples of the same speaker pronouncing orthographic <a> as [ə] in one word and [ɐ] in another: [kənˈtsʊn] vs. [ˈkazɐ]. "Ricarda, Liver (1999), Rätoromanisch – Eine Einführung in das Bündnerromanische" gives more information on that, but I don't have the book available right now. --Terfili (talk) 09:01, 9 January 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Help talk:IPA which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:18, 15 July 2017 (UTC)[reply]