Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources/Archive 4

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WikiTree

Dear colleagues,
I was consulting the list to find out the status of WikiTree as a source for genealogical information, but it is currently not included in the list. Before I start a discussion about it on the noticeboard, does anyone have experience in using it in an article, or of its suitability for biographies of old-time performers (i.e., not WP:BLP)? Thank you very much in advance.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(become old-fashioned!)} 15:10, 19 June 2020 (UTC)
PS: On taking a closer look, it appears to be an aggregator of FamilySearch and Findmypast, which are deemed generally unreliable; so, this suggests WikiTree would most likely share that status too.
Patrick. ツ Pdebee.^{(talk)(become old-fashioned!)} 15:30, 19 June 2020 (UTC)

Hi Pdebee, I think you're absolutely right. In addition to FamilySearch (RSP entry) and Findmypast (RSP entry), WikiTree looks similar to Ancestry.com (RSP entry) and Geni.com (RSP entry), all of which are considered generally unreliable due to lack of editorial oversight. — Newslinger talk 04:46, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Question on list creation

Hello everyone, I would like if someone who is familiar with the creation of this list could tell me whether it would make sense to create a similar but separate list for sources in Serbo-Croatian language, that are often and in large numbers used under the Balkan scope? Perhaps, at some point, this could be extended to the whole of Eastern Europe and the languages in use there, however, in both versions the geographically scope should be probably defined, beside lang, in line with ARBMAC / ARBEE. Thanks.--౪ Santa ౪^99° 17:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

@Santasa99:, what methodology were you thinking of using for building the list? If you're just planning on writing it using your own opinions, there isn't much stopping you from just starting your own list, with the caveat being that its authority will be only as strong as your own personal arguments. If you're planning on building the list based on the consensuses of archived discussions, then WP:NPPSG may be a good place to log the assessments if the consensuses aren't strong enough to list here. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 17:40, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Of course not, it would defeat the purpose to build something on your own - I was thinking, using the same methodology as with creation of existing Perennial sources list, although I have to admit I was pretty assured that simply following ongoing and registering previous discussions and results in individual RSN's would be only appropriate way - I mean, isn't the Perennial sources list created by simply registering results of the most recent RSN discussion outcomes ?--౪ Santa ౪^99° 18:25, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

In that case, I'd suggest that we use WP:NPPSG for this (I'm effectively already doing that, although other than a few Albanian sources there's been little discussion about the Balkans on RSN since I've started). The difference between that list and RSP (other than the sorting) is that NPPSG has a lower bar for inclusion than RSP. RSP documents discussions that are truly perennial, or that at least have been thoroughly discussed in an RfC, whereas NPPSG documents any reliability discussion that includes a general reliability assessment. The name NPPSG is honestly a bit of a misnomer at this point but I've been lazy about renaming it. _signed, Rosguill ^talk 20:05, 26 June 2020 (UTC)

Some WikiProjects have assembled source lists that are focused on specific topic or geographical areas. See WP:RSP § Topic-specific pages for a list. If you would like to create a list, I recommend doing so under a relevant WikiProject so that it gets seen by more editors who would find it helpful. The methodology to use for this list would be up to you. Some of these topic-specific lists include more discussions from talk pages covered under the related WikiProject in addition to discussions from the reliable sources noticeboard. However, I'm not sure which WikiProject to place this under, since WikiProject Eastern Europe is inactive.

Rosguill's recommendation to use WP:NPPSG is a good idea, since it has sections for geographical areas and would be used by new page patrollers in addition to editors interested in the topic area. Regardless of whether you choose to create a separate list, adding entries to WP:NPPSG would ensure that they get seen and are made use of by more editors. ​— Newslinger talk 04:32, 27 June 2020 (UTC)

PinkNews as a reliable source

Opinions are needed on the following matter: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#PinkNews. It's a reassessment matter. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Given the way the discussion has evolved, do you think it would be a good idea to convert it into a formal RfC? Armadillopteryx^talk 02:57, 10 July 2020 (UTC)

Reliability of the ADL?

Should this be considered the same as Hope Not Hate? CantingCrew (talk) 15:24, 15 July 2020 (UTC)CantingCrew

There is currently an active RfC on the Anti-Defamation League at WP:RSN § RfC: Anti-Defamation League (ADL). Feel free to ask questions and express your opinions there. — Newslinger talk 19:53, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

The origin of Memes and citing Knowyourmeme

I don't know how any more accurate evidence can be found on topics this obscure, or are we simply to wait until a publication decides to talk about it ( and often get it wrong ). Especially because contextually there isn't a better site. This has led to inaccuracies on other pages. There is a good context for referencing such sites.CantingCrew (talk) 15:27, 15 July 2020 (UTC)CantingCrew

​Know Your Meme (RSP entry) is currently classified as generally unreliable because its entries are user-generated. Even when it is the best source available, it does not have enough editorial control to meet the verifiability policy's requirement of "a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy". There are many sources on the Internet that readers appreciate, yet do not meet Wikipedia's standards of inclusion, and Know Your Meme is one of them. If you find evidence of editorial control at Know Your Meme that other editors have missed, feel free to start a new discussion on the reliable sources noticeboard. — Newslinger talk 19:58, 18 July 2020 (UTC)

Global Times

Is the now closed discussion at Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 294#Global Times specific enough for us to change what we say for the Global Times? It appears to be the only discussion we’ve had on the Global Times specifically since 2014 (the 2019 discussion was a combined discussion of six sources and it was noted that among them GT was the least reliable) and consensus is clear but participation was light.Horse Eye Jack (talk) 23:36, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

I probably wouldn't as yet - generally speaking, I don't think there should be a rush to list things here unless consensus is clearly overwhelming. There's a vexed and ongoing argument about just how independent various state-owned media are and where they therefore go on the reliability scale - David Gerard (talk) 09:47, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

The Global Times is already listed here. They also aren’t one of the edge cases we’re concerned about with state-owned media, these guys are worse than RT. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 20:10, 29 May 2020 (UTC)

I think more participation would be helpful here, probably in the form of an RfC. — Newslinger talk 02:37, 30 May 2020 (UTC)

Can add CGTN and SCMP to the discussion as well. NoNews! 06:15, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

CGTN yes but not SCMP... SCMP is editorially independent of the Chinese government and located in HK. CGTN and Global Times are similarly unreliable state mouthpieces. SCMP is generally reliable. Horse Eye Jack (talk) 21:45, 6 July 2020 (UTC)

Is there a list of reliable HK sources out there somewhere? Because it's came up in AfDs a few times and I assume not every news outlet there would be reliable. I'd love to start a list if there isn't one already. Adamant1 (talk) 10:22, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Wording for a listing

Newslinger, the AfterEllen discussion recently closed: Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 302#AfterEllen. Any ideas for what wording to use for its listing on this page? The consensus is generally reliable, with a strong emphasis on context. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:31, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi Flyer22 Frozen, I think we need one more discussion of AfterEllen before the site meets the inclusion criteria. There are several discussions of AfterElton.com (now TheBacklot.com), described in Wikipedia as "the companion site of AfterEllen.com (AfterEllen)", but I am not sure if it is appropriate to group AfterEllen and AfterElton together. I noticed that the new page patrol source guide currently lists AfterEllen in WP:NPPSG § No consensus with the description "a July 2020 RSN discussion did not come to a consensus, with a majority arguing that it was generally reliable and usable as attributable opinion". I can see how a formal closure would be useful for this discussion, and it is unfortunate that the discussion was not turned into an RfC because the subject is quite controversial. — Newslinger talk 02:43, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Newslinger, as always, no need to ping me since I watch this page and I check back for replies regardless.

There are listings on this page that are supported by only one discussion, and I don't see what else could be stated about AfterEllen at this point in time. The WP:NPPSG listing is contradictory since the sentence clearly states "with a majority arguing that it was generally reliable and usable as attributable opinion." So that should be tweaked away from "no consensus." And I'll do that now. I could request a formal close of the discussion since closes have been carried out after a thread has been archived, but I think I'll likely leave it be. And I agree that AfterEllen should be judged on its own merits. AfterElton/TheBacklot is defunct. As for AfterEllen's listing here at WP:RSP, I'm not pressed to have it listed. I questioned the matter because discussion on it recently closed. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 02:59, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Actually, I'll leave that listing at WP:NPPSG as is for now. But that listing is currently contradictory. Flyer22 Frozen (talk) 03:05, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Since RfCs are widely publicized through the feedback request system, an RfC can serve as a substitute for two discussions. However, there are simply too many sources discussed on the noticeboard for this list to include those that only have one non-RfC discussion. The inclusion criteria were initially formed in Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources/Archive 2 § Criteria for inclusion, and I unsuccessfully proposed that they be tightened in Wikipedia talk:Reliable sources/Perennial sources/Archive 3 § Adding notability to the inclusion criteria. If you think the criteria can be improved in some way, please share your suggestions. I'll try to remember your preference to not be pinged—sorry about that. — Newslinger talk 03:12, 20 July 2020 (UTC)

Newslinger: Just an FYI. AfterElton.com > TheBacklot.com = zero. The website was dissolved in 2015. Pyxis Solitary (yak). L not Q. 00:12, 23 July 2020 (UTC)

Flyer, I have put in a formal request for closure after a request from Pyxis. Hemiauchenia (talk) 01:37, 22 July 2020 (UTC)

How to search Wikipedia use of sources...?

Is there a search method to find instances of a source used across Wikipedia? Is it possible, say, to search Wikipedia’s use of a certain site or book or article across articles? X0bN14Rb (talk) 00:57, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Hi X0bN14Rb, you can use the insource: parameter in the search box to find articles that include links to a certain website. There is also Special:LinkSearch, although it includes search results from all namespaces (including discussion pages) and requires separate searches for HTTP and HTTPS links. The {{RSourceSummary}} and {{Domain uses}} templates might be helpful. Book citations are more difficult to locate, but a good starting point would be to search for the book's title (in quotes) or the book's ISBN. — Newslinger talk 01:04, 26 July 2020 (UTC)

Thank you! This worked wonders; very helpful! X0bN14Rb (talk) 15:32, 26 July 2020 (UTC)