Template talk:Interlanguage link/Archive 3

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Automating this template with WikiData?

I like how this template changes from a redlink to a bluelink when a page is created on EnWiki. It got me thinking: Is there a way to extend this functionality? So if I use {{ill}} and I specify only |ceb=, but then later an article is created at the Finnish wiki and connects it on Wikidata, could that be added to the link automatically somehow? Maybe by checking for other sitelinks on the wikidata entry? If the interwiki links update on every article's sidebar, couldn't that happen for this template? --Nessie (talk) 19:47, 6 November 2019 (UTC)

That would lead to a lot of clutter, if there are multiple other wikis that have an article. I think it makes more sense to pick one, possibly two but not many, where there is a decent article on the topic. Nikkimaria (talk) 01:55, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed; automatically linking to every language article could potentially lead to dozens of links being added, and I can see at most five links being useful; after that it's just clutter. Primefac (talk) 02:32, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

@Nikkimaria and Primefac: Are there many articles using {{Ill}} that have ‘dozens’ of interwiki links and no enwiki link? Also a cap could be put on, to limit it to say 4 links. --Nessie (talk) 03:28, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Hmm, I'm wondering what kind of articles would not exist at English WP but exist at multiple other language wikis? I find in most cases that articles not existing here may be created at one or two other wikis, usually based on the subject's nationality, as in a French actress mostly notable in France. Enwiki is the most robust of the lot, I can't imagine there are many articles on books or people that have been created in more than two languages but not in English.— TAnthony^Talk 03:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

I will admit, I was being slightly hyperbolic, as by the time you got to more than 3-4 cross-language links it would be likely that one would exist in enwiki. We used to have a tracking category that listed how many outgoing links were listed, but it was removed. In truth, I don't think I've ever seen more than 5 links via this template.

In thinking it over, I agree that it would be fairly easy to set a cap on how many WD-provided links are used. My only question, though, is the usual one with regards to WD: how will these links be vetted? Goodness knows we get enough terrible articles on enwiki; maybe we don't want a link to the one-sentence BLP-violating article on Jeremy Hillary Boob PhD from the xyz-wiki. In other words, if an editor links it one can assume that it's a halfway-decent article; doing so automatically guarantees nothing. Primefac (talk) 11:32, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

@TAnthony and NessieVL: I'm getting timeouts when trying to expand or alter the query atm, but this sample shows over 1000 instances of a Canadian subject with sitelinks to at least 3 other wikis and none on English. I'd expect similar results, if not more since Canada is largely English-speaking, for subjects from other countries. Nikkimaria (talk) 12:46, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose I am strongly against any automated links via Wikidata. Other language wikis do not have the same number of editors, and often do not succeed in upholding core policies, including BLP requirements. Futher, there are few editors at Wikidata, and little or no oversight of added links. In areas in which I edit, many Wikidata items have incorrect or inappropriate inter-wiki links. Editors adding links take responsibility for doing so. Automating via Wikidata means no-one takes responsibility. Peter coxhead (talk) 15:35, 7 November 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose as per Peter. Even the present system is confusing for casual readers, it's not clear intuitively what the red and cryptic blue letters mean. Would a Japanese student know that "[es]" is a link to the Spanish WP, or even more confusingly "[uk]" is Ukrainian? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 10:00, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
  • See List of ISO 639-1 codes. Tooltips showing the (English) name of the language may be helpful for people unwilling to familiarize themselves with these codes, but they would obscure the default tooltip of each page's article's foreign-language title (which may often differ from its future English-language title) if used. ―cobaltcigs 18:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)
• Wholeheartedly support if technically feasible. This would save a lot of hunting and pecking, especially for pages in languages using non-Latin scripts (which tend to be under-represented in the current system, simply because they're harder to manually search for). ―cobaltcigs 18:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Add hidden tracking categories for uses with multiple interlanguage links

This would allow prioritizing the creation of articles according to demand, e.g. Category:Pages using Template:Interlanguage link with 3 languages (pls adjust phrasing as appropriate). ―cobaltcigs 18:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

@Cobaltcigs: Category:Interlanguage link template link number was deleted in September 2019 on account of not serving a purpose. However, it would be possible to restore that category if you think this would be a worthwhile purpose. Jc86035 (talk) 19:01, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Hmm… I suppose periodic database reports might be more useful, in that the list of titles would correspond to the missing pages, rather than to existing pages that refer to them. You know, because you can't populate a category with red links. The problem would lie in relying on someone to actually generate the reports. ―cobaltcigs 19:14, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Topics like this:

• Military History Museum (Budapest)

This really does happen. ―cobaltcigs 22:28, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Implement language code recognition?

It'd be helpful if the template recognized the language codes ("de", "fr", etc.) so it wouldn't matter in which order you type the code and the article's name -> then both {{ill|de|Charlie B. Brown|fr|Charlie B. Brown}} and {{ill|Charlie B. Brown|de|Charlie B. Brown|fr}} would produce the same result. 2001:999:71:4987:5D5B:A034:22F7:9E93 (talk) 20:53, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

I can imagine someone wanting to link to de:fr or fr:de :) —Kusma (t·c) 21:10, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

(OP) When wikilinking to other language, the language code comes first (like this: [[:de:Article]]), which is probably the reason why I always struggle remembering the correct order for this template. Seems I'm not the only one: [1] 85.76.150.65 (talk) 17:41, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

But that is the order the template uses if the English Wikipedia article name is different: For example, in List of members of the 19th Bundestag, there is {{ill|Bernhard Daldrup|de|Bernhard Daldrup (Politiker, 1956)|la|Bernhardus Daldrup}} to join Bernhard Daldrup with de:Bernhard Daldrup (Politiker, 1956) and la:Bernhardus Daldrup. The form {{ill|article name|de}} is just a shortcut if the article titles are the same on both Wikipedias. —Kusma (t·c) 17:53, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

That, I believe, is the reason why it was coded that way initially. The first param is the en-wiki value, followed by (essentially) <lang>|<name> on repeat, which is how we generally link things as mentioned above. Primefac (talk) 19:39, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

A far more robust syntax would be this:

1. Convert the language codes into named parameters.
2. Recognize only two numbered parameters—{{{1}}} the English page title, {{{2}}} the link text—to form the first link like [[{{{1}}}|{{{2|{{{1}}}}}}]].
   • Note: Keeping |lt= as an alias for {{{2}}} will not be feasible because lt means Lithuanian.
3. Use a Lua module to validate, and alphabetically sort, the language codes.
4. Display an error when any parameter name does not correspond to any language code.

Example

input	output
{{ill|Charlie B. Brown (actor)|Charlie B. Brown|de=Charlie B. Brown (Schauspieler)|fr=Charlie B. Brown (acteur)}}	Charlie B. Brown [de, fr]

I believe could write such an overhaul myself in a few hours, if there is sufficient interest. ―cobaltcigs 18:16, 29 February 2020 (UTC)

Please do not change the way parameters are used in this template again. The previous change was extremely disruptive – not again. The proposed syntax will make for extra typing if the subjects have the same name across Wikipedias, which is mostly true for organizations and buildings, and even for most people. Your example below can be written as

{{ill|Robert Ménégoz|ca||de||fr|}}: Robert Ménégoz.

If you feel the syntax you propose is worth having, please implement it in a different template. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:40, 1 March 2020 (UTC)

Question

Hello,
I'm trying to link to the article of the TV show Nulle part ailleurs on French Wikipedia but it is redirected to a different article with the same name (an album) on English Wikipedia; is it possible to force a redlink or directly redirect to French Wikipedia? Thanks. - Myxomatosis57 (talk) 16:44, 18 March 2020 (UTC)

You should use the same approach that has been used at Alex Berger: {{ill|Nulle part ailleurs (TV program)|fr|Nulle part ailleurs|lt=Nulle part ailleurs}} which gives Nulle part ailleurs. In the long run, when such an article will be written on the English Wikipedia, that article should usurp the REDIRECT at Nulle part ailleurs because all incoming links there seem to be for the TV program. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:21, 19 March 2020 (UTC)