Talk:Sinhala script

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Requested move 13 February 2019

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Not moved. (non-admin closure)  samee  converse  09:53, 20 February 2019 (UTC)

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Sinhalese script → Sinhala script – "Sinhala language" has consistently been used more often than "Sinhalese language" since 1982 according to Google's n-grams Danielklein (talk) 06:02, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

• The language is at Sinhalese language. Dekimasuよ! 06:45, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Oppose the current title is 2x more common in GBook search. In ictu oculi (talk) 09:22, 13 February 2019 (UTC)

  You are correct, however, that search doesn't show dates, and from a quick look it appears that most of the results are from books published before 1950, before "Sinhala" entered English. The first page of results shows:

  • An Etymological Glossary of the Sinhalese Language (reprinted 1997) - Wilhelm Geiger (died 1943)
  • The Sidath Sangarawa: A Grammar of the Sinhalese Language (1852)
  • A Comprehensive Grammar of the Sinhalese Language (1891) - Abraham Mendis Gunasekara
  • A Grammar of the Sinhalese Language (reprinted 1995) - Wilhelm Geiger (died 1943)
  • The Sinhalese Language (1946) - Theodore G. Perera
  • A Simple Guide to Spoken Sinhalese: for tourists in Sri Lanka (2011) - Aloysius Aseervatham
  • The Sidath Sangarawa: A Grammar of the Sinhalese Language Translated (1852) - James De Alwis
  • A Dictionary of the Sinhalese Language - Part 17 (1935) - Sir Don Baron Jayatilaka
  • Language and Space: Cognitive Semantics of Sinhala Grammatical Categories (2005) - Dileep Chandralal
  • A Dictionary of the Sinhalese Language - Part 23 (1935) - Sir Don Baron Jayatilaka

  Totals: 8 "Sinhalese" pre-1950, 1 "Sinhalese" post-1950, 1 "Sinhala" post-1950.

  In contrast, on the first page of results for "sinhala language": 2 "Sinhalese" pre-1950, 1 "Sinhalese" post-1950, 7 "Sinhala" post-1950.

  Google's n-grams tool uses the same data as Google books (as far as I can tell) and shows the usage with dates. We shouldn't keep using language from 70-170 years ago if it doesn't reflect current usage. Of particular interest is one title found under "sinhala language": Sinhal: Sinhala Script, Sinhalese People, Sinhala Language, Tamil Loanwords in Sinhala, Sinhala Only Act, Portuguese Loanwords in Sinhala where "Sinhalese" is only used to describe the people; the language and the script are consistently both called "Sinhala". Finally, the official English translation of the Constitution of Sri Lanka's says in Article 18: "The Official Language of Sri Lanka shall be Sinhala. Tamil shall also be an official language." and in Article 19: "The National Languages of Sri Lanka shall be Sinhala and Tamil." Danielklein (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 06:33, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

  Also, before I wrote the above, "Sinhala" appeared on this page 77 times, "Sinhalese" only 11 times. It seems Wikipedia users are 7 times as likely to use "Sinhala" over "Sinhalese". Danielklein (talk) 06:40, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, the appearance of "Sinhala" in the article as you mention is only evidence that nationalist POV pushers try to push their version of the name on Wikipedia. Sinhalese is the common name in English per Ngrams. As the common English name is clearly Sinhalese, the most reliable sources refer to Sinhalese, and we don't go by official names in constitutions, the title should remain Sinhalese. Britannica also uses "Sinhalese", and given AT suggests to consult other encyclopaedias in this case, I think this proposal is way off the mark. RGloucester — ☎ 15:53, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

Your n-grams is only for British English. If you expand the search to "all" English (i.e. British and American), you see a different story. If you limit it to just American books, "Sinhala" has been consistently overwhelmingly preferred over "Sinhalese" since 1988. Encyclopædia Britannica is a British publication (note British "ae" vs American "e" spelling, using old-fashioned "æ" ligature), so it does not represent all English. I'm not certain what other reputable encyclopaedias have easily searchable articles. The article at Sinhalese (encyclopedia.com) says "Identification and Location. The Sinhalese are a people who speak the Sinhala language, live in the southwestern region of Sri Lanka (formerly Ceylon), and are predominantly of the Theravada Buddhist faith." Again, this clearly differentiates between "Sinhalese" people and the "Sinhala" language. Britannica itself in the Sri Lanka article calls the language only "Sinhala", and never "Sinhalese". Sri Lanka: Language and religion says "Among the principal ethnic groups, language and religion determine identity. While the mother tongue of the Sinhalese is Sinhala—an Indo-Aryan language—the Tamils speak the Dravidian language of Tamil." with "Sinhala" linking to "Sinhalese language". So Britannica itself is confused whether to call the language "Sinhala" or "Sinhalese". Danielklein (talk) 02:29, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

Brittanica is an American publication. Perhaps this is an ENGVAR issue, but I'm not so certain. Either way, oppose per the above RS. RGloucester — ☎ 06:09, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose per above. RGloucester — ☎ 19:30, 13 February 2019 (UTC)
• Support as per WP:COMMONNAME. Smith(talk)
• Oppose I think it should be noted that Sinhala (සිංහල) is how you say Sinhalese language in Sinhalese. To put it another way in English the language is referred to as Sinhalese (so are the people) while in the Sinhalese language (the language and the people) are referred to as Sinhala. Therefore the language and script in the Sinhala version of wikipedia should be Sinhala while on the English version it should be Sinhalese.--Blackknight12 (talk) 05:40, 16 February 2019 (UTC)

  There are two names in English: "Sinhalese" (the old name) and "Sinhala" (the new name). Neither one is incorrect. I have provided evidence that "Sinhala" is now more used in English than "Sinhalese", so Wikipedia should provide articles called what most people would expect to find them under. Most people will know both the words "Sinhala" and "Sinhalese". Very few people would know only one or the other. Danielklein (talk) 23:51, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

• Oppose largely for procedural reasons. Wikipedia has article titles using both Sinhala and Sinhalese. Ideally, a discussion on the correct name for the Sinhalese language page should be conducted with the caveat that sub-pages like this should follow that usage. —  AjaxSmack  23:06, 17 February 2019 (UTC)

  I agree that all pages on Wikipedia should be consistently named. Sinhalese–Portuguese War should remain as it is since it's an historical conflict. Sinhalese Sports Club and Sinhalese Sports Club Ground should be renamed to "Singhalese" with a "g", because that's how it's spelt on the official webpage in multiple places. Sinhalese people should remain as it is for now because despite Google books and n-grams claiming "Sinhala people" is used more, I haven't seen any direct evidence of this. Sinhalese language and Sinhalese script should both be renamed to "Sinhala". Sinhala Only Act can't be renamed because it is never called "Sinhalese". Sinhala (Unicode block) and Sinhala Archaic Numbers must stay as they are because that's what the Unicode Consortium calls them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Danielklein (talk • contribs) 23:40, 18 February 2019 (UTC)

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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Move discussion in progress

There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Sinhalese language which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 11:45, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Section "Letters" > "Suddha Set" > "Vowels" has a factual error in one of the diagrams

I'm talking about https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhala_script#Vowels. The error is in the media file https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinhala_script#/media/File:Sinhala_diacritics.svg. The media is supposed to describe how (u) and (ū) vary according to the consonants. However the diacritic for k (ක) is wrong.

It shows: කැ, කෑ But it should be: කු, කූ

The vocalic diacritics for u and ū ‌for k (ක)

Also, the diacritics for r (ර) are wrong too.

It shows: රැ, රෑ But they should be: රු, රූ

The vocalic diacritics for u and ū ‌for r (ර)

— Preceding unsigned comment added by සම්පත් සිටිනාමලුව (talk • contribs) 02:51, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Source: I'm a native speaker.

I am not sure how I could edit the file as it's an SVG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by සම්පත් සිටිනාමලුව (talk • contribs) 02:47, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

• Support These statements are true and still (13-04-2020) have not been corrected. I consider these mis-representations as significant errors. I also do not have knowledge to correct that image. Is it ok to remove that and add a table indicating the same information but in corrected format? Jan deno (talk) 11:37, 13 April 2020 (UTC)