Wikipedia talk:Don't bludgeon the process/Archive 1

Archive 1

October 2008

This was created out of userspace, with input from several editors over a few months. It is still a little rough, but I am confident with some help it will improve. PHARMBOY (TALK) 00:12, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

I have read your article and find it provides good pointers how to deal with decisions processes, but I feel it is not fully applicable to general discussions on issues considered a minority view by the active majority, personal or dealing with a single user actions, be them right or wrong. The level of difficulty to present even any type of defense is skewed by the uneven playing field and because the Wiki is a publishing medium and perception is extremely important, the article does have some pointers to avoid errors or appearing foolish by doesn't take in consideration the uneven forces in action besides advising retreat to the debate. That, will undoubtedly lead or be interpreted as a concession to the other party argumentation or statements, since on any significant size Wiki only a minority would be willing to check any existing facts outside of any major dispute. --213.22.5.71 (talk) 03:39, 22 January 2009 (UTC)

Change in scope

• I'm thinking about rewriting this essay to narrow the scope to deal with just the multiple replies in discussions, and would invite any opinions (if anyone actually watches this page...). For the record, I am Pharmboy above, I just changed my name since creating this essay. Dennis Brown 2¢ © 14:11, 28 April 2012 (UTC)
• Already reduced in scope, but needs to be more concise. I've asked for outside help. Dennis Brown - 2¢ © 20:02, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

Non-admin bludgeoning

In response to Scolaire's revert of my addition: it happens quite a fair bit on AN and ANI. It's a form of process-bludgeoning: the user will seek to disqualify non-admin participation in a discussion if the non-admins aren't backing up that person's opinion. I added it precisely because I saw this essay linked in a recent AN thread where this had happened as part of the bludgeoning. —Tom Morris (talk) 14:06, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Except that this essay really deals with the likes of RfCs, AfDs etc. which are open to all to participate, and the suggestion that a non-admin couldn't participate would be ludicrous. Besides that, it specifically refers to attempts to force a point of view by the sheer volume of comments, not to the substance of any comment, whether a reasonable one or not. I don't doubt that it happens on AN, but it doesn't belong in this particular essay. Scolaire (talk) 14:14, 30 June 2014 (UTC)

Sometimes the person bludgeoning the process is also argumentative and repetitive, but sometimes the comments are civil and to the point. In the latter case the only problem is that there are way too many of them -- a case of Wikipedia:Civil POV pushing. --Guy Macon (talk) 19:51, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Header

I'm on the fence about the new header Guy Macon. The original intent of the essay when I wrote it was AFD, with the understanding it applied to other places (AFD was more of a cesspool back in 2008). Of course, Wikipedia changes as does the direction of the essay. I'm not saying the new header is wrong, I'm just not sure if it is "more right" or not. Pondering it, with the understanding that it isn't my baby any more, and not rushing to judgement. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 20:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

Right now, bludgeoning the process is more common in RfCs than AfDs, but you still see it a lot on article talk pages. I think that they key to deciding which header to have is whether anyone actually disagrees with the basic premise of this page, and in my opinion pretty much nobody except the bludgeoners themselves does. Nonetheless, I am fine with whatever the consensus turns out to be. --Guy Macon (talk) 20:52, 4 August 2015 (UTC)

I think you are right that RFCs are the problem today, just as AFDs were in the past. Will leave alone, I think you have some reasonable ideas that I just hadn't thought of. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 16:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)