Talk:Media coverage of Bernie Sanders/Archive 4

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We should stop pretending that the Ed Schultz interview didn't happen or isn't notable.

User:WMSR is trying to keep the section on Ed Schultz's firing from MSNBC using the following reasoning: Removed section; the entire section is based on a now-retracted interview, conducted by a non-RS right-wing site, of an RT employee. Subsequent sources were also not RS.
So what he's saying is: National Review can't be used as source for interviews that National Review itself performed, and Ed Schultz can't be used as a source of information regarding Ed Schultz.
I can't believe that this is backed by Wikipedia policy. Schultz is a notable enough that he has a Wikipedia entry on his person -- how can he not be deemed as notable source of information on things that happened to himself? Rafe87 (talk) 16:23, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Please revert yourself immediately. This is a violation of 1RR restrictions placed on this article. --WMSR (talk) 16:36, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

1RR is only valid a day. I only reverted the deletion once today, so I'm not in violation of it. And I have already been reverted, so no need to go crying to the administrators again. Rafe87 (talk) 16:41, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Also, you should take the opportunity to tell the other editors here how Ed Schultz (who's notable enough to merit an entry on Wikipedia) is, nevertheless, not a notable source of information on things that happened to himself? Rafe87 (talk) 16:42, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

The article history says otherwise. You have reverted twice in the last 24 hours. For your second point, Wikipedia requires reliable WP:SECONDARY sources, so Ed Shultz is not a reliable source on himself. 109.152.208.48 (talk) 16:45, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

You'll need better secondary sources for this. O3000 (talk) 16:48, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

That's not what this is about. It's about certain users who think (or do they?) that a Ed Schiltz's interview can't be used as a source of information on Ed Schultz himself. I challenge anyone to show that it's Wikipedia policy to ban the use of personal interviews (or secondary sources commenting on the interview) as a source of biographical information on the interviewee himself. Rafe87 (talk) 16:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

This has already been discussed on the talk page and consensus was reached. 1RR applies to periods of 24 hours. I have just reverted some of my own edits for this reason, as I did not read policy closely enough and did not realize that the rule applied to reverts of different sections. WMSR (talk) 16:52, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

• It was widely reported that he said this so can be included only as Ed Schultz's opinion of why he was fired. I'd support including a modified version only if the inadequately sourced BLP content was removed. Dartslilly (talk) 17:02, 14 January 2020 (UTC)
• In addition to the poor sources, I think there may be a problem with adding Ed Shultz’s opinion about why he was fired at MSNBC in this article or the MSNBC article given that this interview appears to have occurred while he was working for RT America, a Moscow outlet. MSNBC coverage has been very negative towards Moscow. Tying this to Bernie Sanders increases the length of the stretch. With better sourcing, I could see it in the Ed Shultz article as to his opinion. O3000 (talk) 17:24, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

The interview has been retracted in full by the National Review. There is absolutely no reason for its inclusion anywhere in my opinion, but especially not here. WMSR (talk) 17:34, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

What is even your source for this? The interview is still available at the NR website: https://www.nationalreview.com/podcasts/the-jamie-weinstein-show/episode-55-ed-shultz/ Rafe87 (talk) 18:58, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Try to play the interview. WMSR (talk) 19:06, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Politico's "antisemitic" article against Sanders

I inserted the following, but was reverted due to its length. Can anyone suggest a shorter version? The article is clearly an important piece to understand the media's relationship with Bernie and it garnered a lot of attention of its own (mostly negative):

In May 2019, Politico published a feature article on Sanders's income. Both the article and tweets from official Politico accounts on Twitter promoting the text, described him as "rich" and "cheap"; the article itself also contained a montage of a giant Sanders holding three houses. In part because Sanders was then the only Jewish candidate in the race, the article was considered anti-Semitic by many on social media. Politico deleted one of its tweets promoting the text and replaced the aforementioned illustration with another, showing Sanders in a backyard with a money tree in the background. Criticism, however, continued to flow in Politico’s direction, including from Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez; she, who later endorsed Sanders in October 2019, asked on Twitter: "Can ⁦@politico ⁩ explain to us how photoshopping money trees next to the only Jewish candidate for president and talking about how “cheap” and rich he is *isn’t* antisemitic? Or are they just letting this happen because he’s a progressive politician they don’t like?" Articles in other media outlets, such as Buzzfeed News, Jacobin, and the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, also disagreed with the tone and arguments of Politico’s article or warned that upholding Sanders to "double standards" risks inflaming anti-Semitism. Sanders himself labeled the article anti-Semitic days later.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Rafe87 (talk • contribs) January 13, 2020 20:11(UTC)

This material was disputed before, but the discussion dwindled. Can you indicate which of these six source best explains how the Politico article and tweet represent media bias against Sanders? - MrX 🖋 21:03, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I've put it back. There's nothing wrong with it.GPRamirez5 (talk) 22:36, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

OK, I've looked at each of these sources. None of them relate to media bias against Sanders. I think this material should be omitted, and I know that the proposed text is far too detailed for any encyclopedia article (and WP:UNDUE. - MrX 🖋 23:00, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

The entry is not called "media bias against Bernie Sanders", but "media coverage of Bernie Sanders". In addition, several of the references described the Politico article as anti-semitic. I honestly don't understand your confusion. Most of the references frame Politico (or at least its article) as biased against Sanders, and even as anti-semitic. Rafe87 (talk) 23:04, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

The article is about supposed media bias against Sanders. That didn't change when the title changed. This is not a WP:COATRACK for everything loosely related. - MrX 🖋 23:10, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

It's also rich how you revert GPRamirez5 under the 1RR, but fail to understand you did the same thing as he. Rafe87 (talk) 23:05, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

I adhered to WP:1RR. What exactly do you think I failed to understand? - MrX 🖋 23:10, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

The article is about supposed media bias against Sanders. No, it is about the media coverage of Bernie Sanders in general?. The content is obviously related to the article.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 23:21, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

That's fine. I'm unwatchlisting this coatrack per WP:IDGAF. Cheers. - MrX 🖋 23:34, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

To illustrate how this is relevant, read this if it makes sense: Media outlet^Politico "racist" coverage^{"antisemitic" article} against Sanders. Is it obvious now how this is related to "Media coverage of Bernie Sanders"?. BTW, in the edit summary I meant to say WP:Stonewalling not WP:STONEWALL.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 23:56, 13 January 2020 (UTC)

This is not how WP:BRD works. There was not clear consensus to restore that edit, and I suggest that whoever restored it revert themselves. It makes sense to include a sentence or two about the Politico article and the resultant pushback, but devoting an entire paragraph to it is absolutely WP:UNDUE. WMSR (talk) 00:21, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Oh so it is now UNDUE, I thought it was a coatrack? One sentence for a controversy that promoted many social media angry because it was racist and Politico deleted the tweets. Also, AOC criticised the anti-semite article. How can we write all of this in one sentence?. These are all related.--SharʿabSalam▼ (talk) 00:30, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

"In May 2019, Politico published an article on Sanders's income, which some, including Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders himself, deemed anti-semitic." WMSR (talk) 01:09, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

This is a decent start, but it should make at least some mention of the words and picture used. To that end, I suggest (feel free to work on this further):

"In May 2019, Politico published an article on Sanders's income. Some – including (any less biased parties?), Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Sanders himself – deemed the coverage anti-semitic, because the article described him as "rich," "cheap" and featured a montage of a giant Sanders holding three houses, and later an illustration of Sanders in a backyard with a money tree."

I think this is better split into 2 sentences for clarity, although you could probably mash it into 1 long run-on sentence if you really felt that it is otherwise undue. Selvydra (talk) 20:57, 14 January 2020 (UTC)

Antisemitic depictions of Sanders are obviously an example of media bias against him, and even more obviously a significant example of media coverage. To shorten the section, I would recommend not quoting AOC's tweet and simply mentioning that she questioned how the article couldn't be seen as antisemitic. — Bilorv (talk) 09:46, 14 January 2020 (UTC)