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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by WMSR (talk | contribs) at 17:11, 6 January 2020 (OneClickArchiver adding Lead: exclusively pro-Sanders POVs, exclusively covers op-eds). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Archive 1Archive 2Archive 3→Archive 5

Reference error fixes

There are a few reference errors that I can't seem to figure out how to fix. If you know how to fix them, please help! The In These Times section has an error that seems perfectly fine. Reference number 33 also has an error that makes no sense. References also need Wikilinks within them. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 05:06, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Errors resolved. Thank you Timothy.lucas.jaeger! Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 06:51, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 2 December 2019

66.57.237.66 (talk)
 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Sceptre (talk) 16:13, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

A few sources not mentioned

Here are a couple sources that could be included:

Here are sources that staunchly criticizes the accusations of bias:

Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 23:24, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Article should be kept and made part of a series listing such media manipulation

Not only Sanders is not the only candidate targeted as such, but also privately owned major media corporations have dropped any pretense of objectivity in pursuing the interests of their majority shareholders. This constitutes a major threat to democracy, something bigger than what outside state or private actors pose.

Fleshing out this article and using it as a template to list similar manipulations against current candidates and future candidates can help fight against such manipulation. Unity100 (talk) 21:36, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Control of the media by the rich and powerful elites (Mike Bloomberg for one) is of serious concern to the future of our country. Wikipedia must be a fair arbiter of ideas. CTDaugherty (talk) 21:40, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Untitled

Don’t Delete, the blackout was first discovered in the Wikileaks documents showing the truth about deceiving a nation and using corrupt powers to sway the primaries. Several emails released show that although the DNC was supposed to remain neutral during the primary contest, officials grew increasingly agitated with Bernie Sanders and his campaign, at some points even floating ideas about ways to undermine his candidacy. DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz Calls Sanders Campaign Manager Jeff Weaver an "A--" and a "Liar" In May 2016 the Nevada Democratic State Convention became rowdy and got out of hand in a fight over delegate allocation. When Weaver went on CNN and denied any claims violence had happened, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, once she was notified of the exchange, wrote "Damn liar. Particularly scummy that he never acknowledges the violent and threatening behavior that occurred." Then just one day before the Democratic convention was set to begin, DNC Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz announced her resignation, effective at the end of the week. And as expected, Sanders supporters, hundreds of whom are delegates at the convention, are furious about the content of the emails. Further proof of the blackout and it’s origins.

Cite: abc.com--— Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.207.29.26 (talk • contribs) 22:08, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Taibbi

@Lalichi: Taibbi is an opinion writer and his articles are not reliable for statements of facts. — goethean 23:24, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

@Goethean: Taibbi does indeed do opinion pieces, however these are marked as 'POLITICAL COMMENTARY' (see this piece). The article that I have cited was marked as 'POLITICS NEWS' (see here). Lalichi (talk) 01:01, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

This article flagrantly violates Wikipedia's NPOV policy

The New York Times was called out when they retroactively made significant changes

The New York Times was "called out"? Is that how a neutral encyclopedia discusses allegations of media bias?

Jennifer Rubin immediately criticized Sanders as a dated, unpopular candidate upon which the next day he reached record fundraising numbers.

This is one example of blatant POV pushing (not to mention abysmal writing) in the article.

MSNBC analyst Mimi Rocah proclaimed that Bernie Sanders, "made her skin crawl" suggesting to viewers that he was not a pro-women candidate.[13][29] This directly contrasted the data from Pew that showed that Sanders polls highest among women.[30][31]

Here the author chooses one poll which is favorable to Sanders and uses it to imply that Rocah's opinion is wrong. Wikipedia editors should not be using Wikipedia resources to make the case for a political candidate.

Sanders went on to write in an email to his donors,

It is really very interesting that Wikipedia now citing candidates' emails to their donors. No citation is provided, of course, since one can't verify the veracity of an email to a donor, can one?

This article suffers from many, ***many*** flagrant violations of the Wikipedia NPOV policy. The author should consider recusing himself from the article. — goethean 20:21, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

What I find interesting is that you have failed to actually look at the references. This is what the sources say. This is why it is documented as such. I support wording changes to neutralize or clarify statements, but it is ***very*** apparent you have a vested interest in deleting this article instead of actually analyzing the sources and rewriting material to be more "neutral". I suspect that is because you don't like the idea that something you disagree with has evidence to support it. Nevertheless, you may not like what the sources state, but that is what they state whether their interpretations are true or false.
Also, the article is not citing candidates emails. It cites an article that discusses his email in response to media criticisms. This is a perfectly valid primary source supported by a secondary source that exemplifies the campaigns stance on the issue that they believe is real. Once again, it does not matter if the bias is real or not, the media discussions exist and it is highly notable. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 20:59, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
Goethean, I dont see any problem with the idiom "called out", it means to criticize someone about something they have said or done and challenge them to explain it.[1]. Also you seem to be under impression that the media bias against Sanders is "allegation" but do you have any source that 'challenge' what you call "an allegation"? What reliable sources are saying is that this a real problem not allegations. See for example this report in FAIR.--SharabSalam (talk) 22:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
As I said above there is no citation for the content that Sanders wrote to his donors. No citation. At all. — goethean 21:09, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Change "was called out" to "faced backlash". It's an easy fix. The whole thing doesn't need to be deleted. SatanistSin (talk) 11:05, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Request for comment

This article exhibits clear bias on the part of supporters of Bernie Sanders, as evidenced by the talk page and the content of the article itself. The main article for Bernie Sanders already contains a section dedicated to how he / his campaigns have been covered by news outlets. This page has no reason to exist other than to satisfy the agenda of Sanders supporters.

Bernie Sanders receives a good deal of news coverage, and the coverage he gets tends to be somewhat positive. His supporters have created this article to abuse the clout of Wikipedia and justify their narrative that Sanders's current standing in the polls is due to outside forces rather than simply having less support than his opponents. The existence of a separate article also allows them to avoid the higher scrutiny they would face when editing the main article for Bernie Sanders. In addition, this seems to be the only page on the entirety of Wikipedia dedicated to the media bias against a single person.

It is for these reasons that I believe this page should either be removed entirely, rolled into an existing section of the main Bernie Sanders article, or added as a new section of the main Bernie Sanders article. At the very least this article should be held to the same standard as any other political article, as political subjects are very easily affected by bias.

I apologize for any misuse of the Wikipedia editing process. I don't have any experience with this community, but had to speak out against what I feel is a clear abuse of the platform.

Ellie.Michaels (talk) 16:53, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Hi Ellie.Michaels, this page has been flagged as a possible candidate for deletion, and you can discuss your thought's on the page's importance here. Buggie111 (talk) 17:10, 1 December 2019 (UTC)


If this Wikipedia Entry is so offensive to so many that they are constantly trying to have it removed, that is evidence of controversy, and thus Wikipedia may be being used as a part of a media conspiracy against the candidate. The very act of removing this entry could therefore be evidence that the bias exists in the form of a conspiracy. Perhaps we should re-frame this article, naming it something else, such as: "Evidence and examples of proven media bias (or conspiracy) against the candidacy of Bernie Sanders 2016-2020" then the page could be more of a historical archive of the known facts and evidence, and would be unrelated to subjective opinions about Bernie Sanders or his supporters. Michael E. Russell 09:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC) Michael Russell, a.k.a. Philosopher3000 Michael E. Russell 09:01, 2 December 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Philosopher3000 (talk • contribs)

There is a discussion about deletion that can be found Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Media bias against Bernie Sanders. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 19:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
  • keep or merge with main Sanders article - I've read dozens of articles examining media bias against Sanders. Whether it is true or not is debatable, but there has been a fiery public debate about it, it's noteworthy. Bacondrum (talk) 23:33, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

If this page gets deleted...

...I have been compiling sources pointing to a rather alarming trend toward literal f--king FASCISM taking over this country through the mechanisms of the national security state.

Fascist takeover of America/U.S. will be up within a week of this page being removed.

Consider this your one warning.

--Abbazorkzog (talk) 18:25, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

This is probably not the most constructive comment, even if you are well-intentioned. Be sure to provide constructive comments that can be utilized to enhance an article's quality. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 19:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)
This is hilarious. Let's make it happen. HonestManBad (talk) 16:24, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
This section belongs in a action movie, not Wikipedia. Consider me impressed by your plot-making skills. Would (oldosfan) 09:30, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Controversial topic

I have created this article knowing full well the controversial nature of the topic. The topic is notable as per WP:NOTE and quite a few publications from both mainstream and alternative media cover the topic. I have attempted to write as objectively as possible and found that in the research there was very little in regards to the response to the criticism. If I missed anything major, feel free to add to the criticism section.

I tried my best to cite primary sources that were only supported by secondary sources. Some issues arose when it came to Reddit and Twitter communities as there was lots of discussion in those, but little to no coverage by media sources.

The title of the article could be perceived as contentious and could be moved to an alternate title if needed based on discussion.

The article need a bit of cleanup with formatting and internal linking. The article also needs to be linked to from other articles. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 04:52, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Be very careful. The wikipedia "mods" will attempt their very best to "censor" this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.228.226.198 (talk) 06:48, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
It's hard to justify censorship when it follows the guidlines outlined by Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:Reliable sources, and WP:NPOV. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 07:15, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Jimmy Wales is a "Libertarian Tech Bro." I wouldn't be surprised if that general culture pervades throughout the entire site.

It does not. Wikipedia has guidelines such as WP:NPOV, which this article blatantly violates. Would (oldosfan) 09:33, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

The entire opening section of this article contains zero sources and engages in significant speculation. I struggle to understand how something like this is allowed, it seems to be closer to the kind of stuff you see on Reddit, not Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.150.60.72 (talk) 16:12, 1 December 2019 (UTC)

Leads do not have to contain references. Only the body. The lead is a summary of the cited body text. This is Wikipedia policy. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 21:48, 1 December 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, the WP:LEAD section is only supposed to reflect and summarize what is found in the main body of the article and does not require any citations unless it is presenting a statement or two that is not found in the body. Ideally such statements should just be moved into the body of the article, somehow, because the main job of the lead is not to introduce ideas that aren't explained elsewhere. The layout of the article seems perfectly fine to me. Pericles of AthensTalk 21:23, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Rather than delete this, why not find the relevant links, and input them? Drrichardpaul (talk) 16:55, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

There is a discussion about deletion that can be found Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Media bias against Bernie Sanders. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 19:10, 2 December 2019 (UTC)

Why is an article with over 60 cited sources even being considered for deletion? If the topic is controversial, then the page should be locked as it is; deleting the article is tantamount to taking a side one way or the other. Being intellectually honest means examining uncomfortable issues like this one, being fair means leaving the article as is. CTDaugherty (talk) 21:47, 2 December 2019 (UTC)


Completely disagree that the topic of media coverage is controversial, i simply believe that the article contains a worrying amount of slant toward the sanders view. I honestly believe the reason for this being that much of the outlets that sanders supporters have criticized have yet to administer a proper defense of their coverage. I am not an expert but perhaps going forward, it would be good to discuss only coverage sanders received in 2016, rather than documenting coverage on an ongoing primary. The discussion should then focus on studies in reputable journals about how coverage may have slanted one way or another. Also please refrain from accusing people of bias, and that goes one way or the other. (0_0;✿) ~MJL's Evil Sister (talk) 14:45, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

The author has argued that it was difficult to find opinions contrary to media bias vs. Sanders existing – is it not possible that the "worrying amount of slant" could simply be a result of the for-vs.-against distribution at which content is found on this topic?
As a simplified example: if an article on the origins of climate change mostly contains citations from sources that purport it *is* anthropogenic and leaves dissenting opinions as a minority, would that constitute slanting the article in the favor of the former? (The back-drop being that, depending on the definition, 90–99% of the body of literature on it concludes it *is* anthropogenic.) Should the article not roughly reflect the proportions of existing data on the subject?
Furthermore, editors are welcome to do reference-searching of their own to conclude if the "there is no bias" side has been underrepresented, rather than drawing a conclusion from the coverage distribution in this article alone. Selvydra (talk) 23:22, 4 December 2019 (UTC)
I'm with you @Selvydra on the reason for what i referred to as slant is that there is the difficulty in finding evidence in support of Sanders' media coverage, in fact i mentioned it in my comment (because i had spent an afternoon looking for it). I was just commenting on how a potential solution would be not to discuss coverage of an on-going campaign. This isn't necessarily a solution i would like to see happen, i just was putting a suggestion out their.
Also, in my personal opinion, i think there is a great amount of bias at play with the coverage of Sanders, so don't think my criticisms come from disagreement with the subject matter! (>u0✿) ~MJL's Evil Sister (talk) 23:52, 7 December 2019 (UTC)
I agree that the title might be improved. I suggested below that it could be changed to Media Coverage of Bernie Sanders, with some attention to and examples of positive coverage, if there has been any. I like the idea of the article, however. Mballen (talk) 04:55, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
I think that name would be good @Mballen, i don't want to have to see it changed, but i think it would be for the best if the article had a less controversial name (0W0;✿) ~MJL's Evil Sister (talk) 00:01, 8 December 2019 (UTC)

Lead: exclusively pro-Sanders POVs, exclusively covers op-eds

The horrible lead to this article, which was just a OR summary of a bunch pro-Sanders op-eds and punditry was just restored.[2] Not only does it have a crazy skew (only pro-Sanders viewpoints are covered), but they are near-exclusively reflective of opinion content, rather than RS content, which is crazy for a lead to do. Snooganssnoogans (talk) 16:35, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

No, the second paragraph of the lead (of which there are only two paragraphs), clearly mentions the rebuttal to the idea that there is any bias at all, whereas the previous lead section didn't even mention the "criticism" section of the article. If anything the current lead is *more inclusive* of the camp that says there is no bias. I fail to see how the following violates WP:NPOV. Perhaps point out the specific statement you think does exactly that instead of just leveling vague complaints that aren't very constructive. Here's the paragraph in question (since the first paragraph merely introduces the central thesis of the article):

Accusations of bias often revolve around themes concerning the concentration of media ownership, profit-driven special interests, manufacturing consent and the propaganda model, general media propaganda, conflicts of interests, and agenda-setting theory.[citation needed] The most prominent media organizations being accused of bias have been MSNBC, the Washington Post, and the New York Times. Many of the media organizations have responded to the criticisms in various ways through rebuttals, criticism, and analysis. Various studies have been done in an effort to document statistical data in regard to news coverage of presidential candidates. Legitimacy of the bias has been called into question by some political commentators.

Perhaps also point out which specific sources are entirely op-ed instead of Wikipedia:Reliable sources, and also a specific reason as to why you think this is the case, backed up by your own sources stating as such. Pericles of AthensTalk 17:39, 6 December 2019 (UTC)

So let's reintroduce the blatantly NPOV lead? It's unsourced synthesis and borderline Original Research.
In particular, the following sentence/list contains "facts" that are not supported in the rest of the article:
Accusations of bias often revolve around themes concerning the concentration of media ownership, profit-driven special interests, manufacturing consent and the propaganda model, general media propaganda, conflicts of interests, and agenda-setting theory.
Slywriter (talk) 21:38, 6 December 2019 (UTC)
  • It might be best to avoid drastically rewriting the lead while the article is on WP:AFD. In any case, I do think that the list of sources that have alleged bias is worth keeping in the lead (the part that goes Alternative media such as Rising with the Hill's Krystal Ball and Saagar Enjeti (by The Hill), Jacobin, Vox, Common Dreams, and Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting, among others, have published articles, videos, and reports discussing... We could debate who belongs in that list in terms of WP:DUE, or how to frame it, but given that the article is partially about an opinion we ought to clearly state who holds it, ie. "who alleges that there is media bias against Bernie Sanders" is a major part of the article and an obvious thing for the lead to summarize. --Aquillion (talk) 03:31, 8 December 2019 (UTC)
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