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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Levivich (talk | contribs) at 23:25, 5 March 2019 (→Category:African-American football quarterbacks: indent). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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February 26

Hip hop song stubs

Nominator's rationale: For stub-sorting purposes, I don't see much of a need to distinguish between song stubs and single stubs, unless there is a significant difference between the number of songs that aren't released as singles and songs that are. For the most part, I would think most hip hop songs from the 2000s and 2010s are going to be singles but the more logical initial diffusion from Category:Hip hop song stubs would be by decade with the same parameter ("song" rather than "single"). For example, Category:2000s rock song stubs was created a year before Category:2000s rock single stubs (and I'm not sure there's really much difference between how those are being used). StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 23:26, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I found one of the original discussions on the singles/songs stubs distinction (here), and also there's this note on the Category:Singles (music): "Articles about music singles. Individual songs should not be listed here, nor should they get categorized by categories of the types "Singles by [artist]" or "[Artist] singles". Instead, songs should all go under subcategories of Category:Songs by artist." Just FYI. Her Pegship (speak) 01:02, 1 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Jewish activists

Nominator's rationale: The term "activist" is so vague and the category so broad that it is neither meaningful, nor helpful to anyone. Many of the more narrow sub-categories are fine. Jayjg (talk) 23:11, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Saturday Night Live players

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT. Has been deleted before. – Muboshgu (talk) 23:10, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:1962 Border Conference football season

Nominator's rationale: empty category; the Border Conference folded before the 1962 football season, so this is a non-existent entity. Jweiss11 (talk) 18:08, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Social problem films

Nominator's rationale: Awfully vague... —swpbT • go beyond • bad idea 17:29, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Islamic dress

Nominator's rationale: Per the main article, Islamic clothing, which was moved to the present title following a move discussion. This was previously declined at speedy, so I am bringing it here. -- Black Falcon (talk) 20:05, 18 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Marcocapelle (talk) 06:51, 26 February 2019 (UTC) [reply]

Category:Christian denominations active in Germany

Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:OVERLAPCAT, the scope of this category largely overlaps with its parent category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:39, 4 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is consensus this category shouldn't remain, but no clear consensus on where it should be merged.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Rob13Talk 05:47, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom for now. The question of merging both to something else ought to be left for a separate discussion. One of these has a LDS article. While I have no time for their beliefs, I see no reason why the article should not exist and be in the category. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:48, 27 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Category:African-American football quarterbacks

Nominator's rationale: Not a defining characteristic per WP:CATDEF; non-notable intersection of race and football position Natureium (talk) 16:10, 3 January 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: There is consensus here to get rid of this category, both by numbers and by strength of argument. Further discussion should ideally focus on whether it's worth listifying this, since that possibility emerged later in the discussion.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ~ Rob13Talk 05:25, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The need of a separate list for quarterbacks is questionable. A more general list of African-American footballers (in which the position may also be mentioned) sounds more natural. Marcocapelle (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Additional comment – I think this category is a defining characteristic, or a notable intersection of two defining characteristics, for the reasons explained in our article Racial issues faced by black quarterbacks. I added about 40 articles to Category:African-American football quarterbacks. The articles in this category all (or almost all) mention that the subject is a black quarterback (often the first black quarterback on their team). Here are some quotes:

    • There has been a mountain of heartbroken, talented would-be black quarterbacks who were “converted” to defensive backs and wide receivers. Constrained by the wrongheaded notion that brains and extraordinary athletic ability were incompatible, generations of blacks were deemed too talented, in some eyes, to play quarterback or not cerebral enough to play the position.
      — The Undefeated

    • Over the history of the NFL, which was founded in 1920, black athletes for decades weren’t given a chance to play quarterback. Talented black college quarterbacks, especially those from historically black colleges and universities, were converted to defensive back or wide receiver. But when Doug Williams led the Washington Redskins to the championship 30 years ago and was named Super Bowl MVP, it seemed to end once and for all the odd question of whether black NFL quarterbacks could succeed.
      — Raleigh News and Observer

    • All these years later, he was still proud of Williams, whose name to some may be that of a half-remembered player from the past but to millions of others remains a powerful symbol of progress. It stayed with me, and it seemed that it was worth telling the story not just of Williams, but of everyone—of all those generations of players who struggled so that Russell Wilson could be, simply, a good young quarterback. So the Deadspin staff set out to find and name every single black quarterback ever to play in the NFL. ... Though black NFL quarterbacks make up one of the smallest fraternities in all of sports, no one anywhere had ever compiled an exhaustive list. No one knows the names of every black quarterback ever to play in the NFL for sure, including us.
      — Deadspin's "Big Book of Black Quarterbacks"

    • Marlin Briscoe didn’t want to be pigeonholed simply because of stereotypes against black men. He was a star quarterback in college and he believed he had the talent, intelligence and leadership skills to be one in the pros. Fifty years ago, during an era of massive social upheaval in the United States, just getting a chance to prove it took a risky ultimatum. ... Briscoe’s groundbreaking accomplishments were somewhat lost in the shuffle during one of the most transformative years in U.S. history. ... But Briscoe’s legacy resonates among his contemporaries 50 years later, hitting on race as well as the pressures athletes face in pro sports. The Pro Football Hall of Fame calls Briscoe the first African-American starting quarterback in modern pro football history. Carolina’s Cam Newton and Seattle’s Russell Wilson have both considered Briscoe’s past as they contend for championships. Doug Williams, the first black quarterback to win a Super Bowl, counts Briscoe as one of his most important inspirations.
      — AP News

    • It’s not a secret that the quarterback position in the NFL has historically been dominated by white players. ... Despite the lack of black starting quarterbacks in the past, there were certainly many players who paved the way for these aforementioned names. Here is a list of the best black quarterbacks of all time.
      — Complex

    • It is no secret that in the early days of the NFL, the owners and coaches were very reluctant to give the reigns of a team to a black player. As recently as 2007, the New York Giants had never had a black quarterback throw even a single pass. In 1934, there was an informal ban on black athletes. ... Still, the abolishing of the ban did not do a whole lot to help enable blacks to play the quarterback position. ... After [Doug] Williams' selection, there was a drought for black QBs entering the league. It took five more years to see another black player drafted for the quarterback position. It wasn't until the 1980s that the black quarterback became a little more acceptable, yet still not very common. As the 80s and 90s progressed, however,  so too did the acceptance of black quarterbacks.
      — The Sporster

And books:
  • Jordan, Billy Joe (2005). N.F.L. Black Quarterbacks Underrated. AuthorHouse. ISBN 9781420896657.
  • Martin, Wisdom T. (2003-04-01). Intentional Grounding: The History of Black Quarterbacks in the NFL. AuthorHouse. ISBN 9781403395535.
  • Rhoden, William C. (2007-01-30). Third and a Mile: The Trials and Triumph of the Black Quarterback. ESPN Books. ISBN 9781933060118.
  • Williams, Doug (1990). Quarterblack: Shattering the NFL Myth. Bonus Books. ISBN 9780929387475.
It seems to me like it should be a category and stand-alone list (there are 100+ on the Deadspin's Big Book), but if that's not the consensus, I hope there's at least consensus for keeping a list of black quarterbacks somewhere, perhaps in Racial issues faced by black quarterbacks or Black players in professional American football, or as a stand-alone list. Leviv ich 23:23, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
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