Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2018 December 29
December 29
Category:Power microprocessors
- Propose renaming Category:Power microprocessors to Category:Power ISA microprocessors
- Nominator's rationale: This category is for microprocessors that implement an ISA called the Power ISA, and describes itself as such, but it's title is missing "ISA", which could lead to it being confused with the earlier POWER ISA. 99Electrons (talk) 23:34, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Lutheran cathedrals by country
- Propose merging Category:Lutheran cathedrals by country to Category:Lutheran cathedrals
- Nominator's rationale: merge, the parent Category:Lutheran cathedrals is nearly empty, it does not require an intermediate layer before reaching the country subcats. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:30, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Highborn adulteresses
- Nominator's rationale: This is a subjective, crufty new category with no encyclopedic value. — TAnthonyTalk 17:19, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Support, we already have Category:Mistresses, that should suffice. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:33, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Counter-argument: Mistresses and adulterers are not the same, far from it. Many mistresses were single, adulterers were obviously married. And while being adulterers was a highly punishable crime, being mistress was not. Adulterers were cheating wives, while mistresses were lovers of married men, thus they are almost the opposite. Go-Chlodio (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Mary Boleyn and Françoise de Foix were clearly mistresses. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:25, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- They were simultaneously mistresses and adulterers. They aren't mutually excllusive, but tend not not to overlap. Go-Chlodio (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: The above comment has changed. DexDor (talk) 13:45, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- They were simultaneously mistresses and adulterers. They aren't mutually excllusive, but tend not not to overlap. Go-Chlodio (talk) 09:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Mary Boleyn and Françoise de Foix were clearly mistresses. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:25, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Counter-argument: Mistresses and adulterers are not the same, far from it. Many mistresses were single, adulterers were obviously married. And while being adulterers was a highly punishable crime, being mistress was not. Adulterers were cheating wives, while mistresses were lovers of married men, thus they are almost the opposite. Go-Chlodio (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Note: This category is not meant to be subjective, but objective. While we can't be certain who was an adulteress and who was simply accused of being one, the description highlights this: Married highborn women who had an affair or were accused of having an affair. Go-Chlodio (talk) 18:58, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Go-Chlodio: "Highborn" is subjective. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:49, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @BrownHairedGirl: How? Even the ancient Romans divided their people into the patricians and plebeians. This concept was continued during the medieval period, for the highborn enjoyed many legal privileges while the lowborn did not. Even the clergy was divided by the status of birth. Furthermore, both terms are recognised by Oxford Dictionaries. Go-Chlodio (talk) 21:18, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Go-Chlodio, plenty of subjective things are in dictionaries. Tall, short, fat, thin, hot, cold: all subjective, all in dictionaries.
How exactly do you define who is highborn, and who isn't? Where exactly is the cutoff? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 21:22, 29 December 2018 (UTC)- BrownHairedGirl, if they were born into a noble family, they are highborn; we do have categories for noble families. Go-Chlodio (talk) 00:20, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- You might be on stronger ground if this was entitled "noble-born". The concept of nobility has very fuzzy edges, but it does at certain pints in history have some key markers. But "high born" just raises the question "how high"? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- I would argue that noble is more subjective than highborn. As I explained, the highborn were always highborn even if they were tonsured. While the definition of noble varied by country, in England only the peers were considered noble, their children were not. Go-Chlodio (talk) 05:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- You might be on stronger ground if this was entitled "noble-born". The concept of nobility has very fuzzy edges, but it does at certain pints in history have some key markers. But "high born" just raises the question "how high"? --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 01:53, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- BrownHairedGirl, if they were born into a noble family, they are highborn; we do have categories for noble families. Go-Chlodio (talk) 00:20, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Go-Chlodio, plenty of subjective things are in dictionaries. Tall, short, fat, thin, hot, cold: all subjective, all in dictionaries.
- @BrownHairedGirl: How? Even the ancient Romans divided their people into the patricians and plebeians. This concept was continued during the medieval period, for the highborn enjoyed many legal privileges while the lowborn did not. Even the clergy was divided by the status of birth. Furthermore, both terms are recognised by Oxford Dictionaries. Go-Chlodio (talk) 21:18, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- @Go-Chlodio: "Highborn" is subjective. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 20:49, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Strong delete. The creator's explanations clarify my initial impression that this is pure cruft.
- The title consists of two words. The first "highborn" is irredeemably subjective. The second, "adultresses", is misleading because the creator explicitly states that it includes hose who were merely accused. There is long-standing guidance against categorising people by allegations, at WP:OPINIONCAT, for the simple reason that it's a vehicle for smears. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 02:03, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Suggestion How about renaming it to "noblewomen charged with adultery"? Go-Chlodio (talk) 05:41, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
- Delete as subjective. A category based on nobility might not be so bad, but we don't usually categorize people for being married, having a child out of wedlock etc. See also WP:DNWAUC. Those articles I checked didn't explicitly mention adultery in the lede. DexDor (talk) 07:51, 30 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Stirling University L.F.C.
- Nominator's rationale: Smallcat Aloneinthewild (talk) 14:38, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Colleges of the University of Aberdeen
- Propose merging Category:Colleges of the University of Aberdeen to Category:University of Aberdeen
- Nominator's rationale: The university only has three colleges, never going to be more than a small category Aloneinthewild (talk) 14:19, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Support per nom. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:36, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Research organizations by continent
- Nominator's rationale: only two entries. One is Category:Research institutes by continent, which is well populated. Not clear what this category provides. Rathfelder (talk) 12:13, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Support, while there is no objection against the category per se (after all, research organizations is broader than research institutes), the way the category has been populated now does not make sense. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:40, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Research organisations in Spain
- Propose merging Category:Research organisations in Spain to Category:Research institutes in Spain
- Nominator's rationale: Two articles, both about research institutes Rathfelder (talk) 12:07, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Support for now, without objection against recreation if other research organizations than research institutes can be added to the category. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:42, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Annelids of Europe
- Propose deleting Category:Annelids of Europe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Annelids of Oceania (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Annelids of Australia (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Annelids by location (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Propose deleting Category:Annelids of Europe (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)
- Nominator's rationale: There are many hundreds of wp articles about annelids (and thousands of species), but this by-location tree of 4 categories contains just 10 articles; even where the articles describe the distribution (e.g. at Glyphidrilus) the article creators have not chosen/bothered to categorize by location. One of the articles in this structure says it's "widely distributed around the world". It would be better to not pretend that we are categorizing annelids by location. Note: There are other forms of life (e.g. bacteria) that we don't categorize by location.
- For info: related discussions: Indonesia, country. DexDor (talk) 07:07, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Lutheran cathedrals in Russia
- Propose merging Category:Lutheran cathedrals in Russia to Category:Lutheran cathedrals and Category:Cathedrals in Russia and Category:Lutheran churches in Russia
- Propose merging Category:Lutheran cathedrals in Estonia to Category:Lutheran cathedrals and Category:Cathedrals in Estonia and Category:Lutheran churches in Estonia
- Nominator's rationale: upmerge per WP:SMALLCAT, only two articles each. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:05, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Katie Holmes
- Nominator's rationale: WP:OCEPON, WP:SMALLCAT. Low-populated eponymous category with only two roles played and an ex-husband as entries. StarcheerspeaksnewslostwarsTalk to me 06:48, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:African birds of prey
- Propose renaming Category:African birds of prey to Category:Birds of prey of Africa
- Nominator's rationale: Consistency (e.g. with Category:Birds of Africa and Category:Birds of prey of Sub-Saharan Africa) which imo is more important than avoiding slightly clunky title. DexDor (talk) 06:13, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Metal Gear (Main Series)
- Nominator's rationale: There is no need for this. It reflects an opinion that is very debatable, for example many people don't consider Twin Snakes a "main series" game due to the liberties it takes. Also the name is very incorrect. ZXCVBNM (TALK) 01:48, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Delete. Unnecessary breakdown of a supposed "main series", which probably means canonical from an in-universe point of view. Category: Metal Gear video games just lists them all, including spin-offs, remakes and compilations. soetermans. ↑↑↓↓←→←→ B A TALK 10:27, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Category:Greek Orthodoxy
- Propose renaming Category:Greek Orthodoxy to Category:Greek Orthodox Church
- Nominator's rationale: WP:C2D: Greek Orthodox Church. See also speedy discussion: Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Speedy. Chicbyaccident (talk) 00:32, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
Copy of discussion at CFDS
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- Oppose per Fayenatic london. I am open to evidence that the concept of Greek Orthodoxy is wholly synonymous with the Greek Orthodox Church, but so far the nominator has offered no substantive reasoning and no evidence. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 00:56, 29 December 2018 (UTC)
- Oppose, Category:Greek Orthodox Church should consist of no more than the churches that are known as Greek Orthodox churches, as listed in Greek_Orthodox_Church#Churches. Note that the entire concept of Greek Orthodoxy is a bit odd as it is a classification by language, i.e. it is Eastern Orthodoxy with the exclusion of speaking a Slavic language. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:57, 29 December 2018 (UTC)