Talk:Extraversion and introversion/Archive 1

Stimulation

"It could simply be that extroverts take less to please." This part of the implications section directly contradicts what is said about stimulation requirements in the causes section.

Happiness

Concerning the correlation to happiness I have this obvious and to be included passage

Though unstated previously, it could simply be that extroverts take less to please. As with "more stimulation from less stimuli", it may be no more than that their happiness is a product of their simplicity of stimulation and arousal. Conversely, introverts experience less stimulation from the same things, and thusly are less "happy."

My favorite definition

A counselor defined the difference between introvert and extrovert for me this way: It's about the personal battery recharge. Introverts get it from time spent alone. Extroverts get it from time spent interacting with others. Those are the extreme ends of the spectrum, of course. Many people fall in the middle. Moreover, it removes the social perceptions and cultural placement of "this personality type is better than that." There's a misconception in US culture, for instance, that all famous singers must be extroverts. Not true. Getting up in front of a hundred thousand people and singing is not personal interaction with others. It's a controlled performance situation, preparations for which may or may not take place in seclusion backstage. Many people in the performing arts are very intorverted with their downtime.

Total rewrite?

I have put the old article back for the time being, because I believe it is more informative that the minimalist description that replaced it. In order to avoid a potential edit war, perhaps we can all work together to not only produce an article that satisfies everyone, but is also better and more informative than both of them.

Yes, total rewrite

I agree that it needs to be totally rewritten which is what I started doing (before you reverted it). The entire premise of the revision you reverted to is incorrect...The word is also used informally to refer to somebody who prefers solitary activities to social ones. Let's stick to the facts and see if we can get some public domain/fair use quotes from Jung, who coined the terms circa. 1913. Please, don't even get me started on the extrovert article...Extroverts also tend to have more sexual partners in the course of their life than introverts, though this isn't to say that all extroverts are promiscuous. Reading that really made me mad to be honest. There is no truth to it.

 Alterego @ 6:56 PM on 10-13-2004

Heh, hey don't be mad, I agree that was out of line, but I think overall the old articles contained more information. I suggest we come up with a basic layout for a new article, you know, something like, 1. A basic overview of the term, it's origins, etc, 2. What introversion/Extroversion is, with quotes and information from Jung and possibly others, 3. What introversion/extroversion isn't, 4. External links, or something of similar form. In the meantime, feel free to put your version of the article back up.PiccoloNamek 23:02, Oct 13, 2004 (UTC)

- I'm fine with that. I won't have Psychological Types back until ~Tuesday so I can't work on it until then. Also..lots of bad information != better information...

Alterego @ 12:46 AM on 10-14-2004

Is there some biological theory on why people are introverted or extroverted? If so, it seems like it should be included.194.47.121.113 19:56, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200303/rauch

This is an excellent article on introversion, I found it hugely informative. Anybody re-writing the introvert page should take a look at this. It states that introverts and extroverts use their brains differently but gives no details, this would be something to investigate. shockeroo @ 18:19, Nov 12th 2005

In answer to the question earlier, yes there is biological theory on why people are introverted or extroverted. The most common theory is by Eysenck, and is based on a balance of Energy created both internally by the Reticular Activation System of the brain, and externally by sensory input. In order to stimulate the neo cortex to a level of optimum arousal and therefore performance, both the extravert and intravert reguate incoming energy through the senses. Because the Reticular System underfires the extravert needs more imput from the external world. This is the reason for their excited behaviour and running around. The oposite is true of the Intravert, the Reticular system overfires and as a result they try to control the amount of energy through the senses and appear shy and controlled. December 14,2005

And we know this how?

Ambiverts tend to be moderate thinkers and weigh more than one side to an issue. Most have warm but controlled personalities.

Can anyone sight a source for this? As is, it reads like generalized speculation, not far off from astology. 207.6.31.119 08:11, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Extraversion vs Extroversion

Re MISSING SOURCE. In the article it is stated that the term extrovert (spelled extravert by Jung) was originally employed by Sigmund Freud. Unfortunately, the author has not found it necessary to indicate any source that would support his claim. While there can be no doubt about Jung's spelling of the term, I was unable to find a single passage in the original writings of Freud where his spelling was different from the one used by Jung. So if the author of the article (or anyone else) knows of an example in the original works of Freud where the term is in fact spelled "extrovert", I would be glad if he could let us know where, exactly, this can be found. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 13:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Re RELIEF. I have to admit I am greatly relieved that nobody has been able to show that Sigmund Freud had ever used the term "extrovert". It would have come as a shock to me if the horrendous allegation implied at the beginning of the article would have turned out to contain an element of truth.
An American reader may not realize this, but in Freud's time, educated people were supposed to know their Latin. A person who would have used the non-word "extro" in any combination would have been considered an illiterate and would not have been allowed past the door of any Gymnasium or Lyzeum, not to speak of the Universitaet.
So while it is not my intention to tell anybody here what to do, I nevertheless want to point out that it would be only fair if the wording of the article was slightly altered as to remove the slur on Dr Freud's intelligence. --BZ(Bruno Zollinger) 09:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

?? I thought it was the other way around. Jung wrote it 'extrovert' and the rest of the world properly calls it 'extravert'. Only followers of Jung (see e.g. MBTI) still use extrovert. In any case, I don't remember ever seeing it spelt extroversion in my time as a psychology student.

Hmm, Yahoo is unsure. 'extrovert' pwns 'extravert', but 'extraversion' is more common than 'extroversion'..

Could someone with access to PsychLit or something like that do a check on which spelling is preferred? -- Kimiko 00:15, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

In academic psychology, "extrAversion" is the contemporary standard. In PsycInfo, "extraversion" gets 7183 hits, "extroversion" gets 1265, and a great many of the latter are in non-English publications, journals from crossover disciplines (like medicine, management, etc.) that probably use the term less frequently and may lack a consistent style, or dated pubs. See my post to Talk:Big Five personality traits for more supporting evidence. Irbatic 00:14, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Today's society?

“In today's society it is generally seen as more of a positive quality to lean towards being extrovert rather than introvert.” Please be more specific and provide evidence. Does this hold across cultures? For example I imagine that Japan and Scandinavia have a different attitude than America or Italy.

I think it does hold actually. If you look at it in a job context, in 9 out of 10 jobs one is likely to experience some contact with others (colleagues, customers etc.) and for that reason alone it's not a good thing to advertise oneself as an introverted individual, which people very rarely do in such situations (in western culture that is).

I can relate to this. In extroversion-obsessed America, the introvert would likely be perceived, albeit rather falsely, as an incipient serial killer, school or work shooter, sexual offender or anarchist bomber. Britain or Japan would certainly be a relative heaven for the introverts.

Please sign your comments by adding four tildes ~~~~ at the end of your comments. Emmett5 03:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Neutrality

"Introversion/extroversion is normally measured by self-report. For example, a questionnaire might ask if you see yourself as someone who^[1]:

is the life of the party
is skilled in handling social situations
doesn't like to draw attention to yourself
doesn't talk a lot

Agreeing with the first two questions would increase the extroversion score, while agreeing with the last two questions would push the score towards the introversion end of the scale. "

Apropos society's bias: I think the criteria in the questionnaire are flawed; cleary the extrovert criteria bear a more positive tone than the introvert ones. That might be of the bogus-factor in the entire field of psychoanalytics, but that's no reason to continue a bad habit in Wikipedia.

Wikipedia is not the place for us to change "bad habits" in our thinking. Wikipedia is an encyclopia, not a scholarly forum. Therefore, if this bias exists in the realm of psychoanalytics, then it must be represented in Wikipedia's description of the phenomenon. The neutrality of this article should only be disputed if there is a reasonable claim that it contains a bias that is not extant in the psychoanalytic literature. I do not believe this to be the case. Dwinetsk 14:36, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Could be replaced with sample questions from the BBC personality test, which seems a bit more neutral:

When it comes to expressing yourself do you…

Hold back more, listening to others before speaking?
Think before you speak?
Think out loud?
Use your hands and facial expressions a lot?

Which set of words best describes you?

Cautious, thoughtful and loyal
Inquisitive, independent and contained
Lively, enthusiastic and energetic
Expressive, talkative and friendly

While this test from BBC does seem to put introversion in a more positive light, it also seems to me to conflate variables. Holdiing back and listening to others before speaking is not necessarily a trait related to introversion/extraversion, but to me seems more related to self-monitoring behavior. I'm not an expert in this field, by any means, but it seems to me that this BBC test is really more Pop-psych than psychoanalytic. Dwinetsk 14:41, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

Introversion v. shyness

"[Introverts] may avoid social situations entirely, not because of shyness, but because they choose to." There's a feedback loop here, I think: introverts (in my experience) are often teased / bullied, particularly when young, and become aware that they "don't quite fit in"; also, the noise and activity of extraverted people can interfere with contemplation. All these can generate an active aversion to social situations. - Steved424 17:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Happy vs feeling of Well Being

I believe that happiness has elements of extroversion attached to or included in its meaning. I believe if we use the term "feeling of well being" instead of "happiness" we would be better off. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Laramie9 (talk • contribs)