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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Marcocapelle (talk | contribs) at 05:15, 8 May 2018 (→Category:Dancing with the Stars winners). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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April 30

Category:People who were deported to Ravensbrück concentration camp

Nominator's rationale: To match the parent category and a majority of its sister categories. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:38, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Theresienstadt concentration camp inmates

Nominator's rationale: To match the parent category and the majority of its sister categories. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 23:37, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I took the liberty to merge the 7 separate discussions to one discussion about 7 categories. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename per nom. For consistency reasons. Though I am somewhat less certain whether Bełżec extermination camp should have its own category. It was operational for about a year (March, 1942-March, 1943) and managed to kill almost every prisoner there. Due to the lack of survivors, relatively little is known about the prisoners and their identities. "The physical evidence of the camp's existence was almost entirely erased before the war's end as a result of the German prolonged cleanup efforts. There were no survivors to alert the Stalinist officials to the true significance of the site in the post-war years, even though the levelled-out mass graves of the victims remained. The scene was not legally protected until the late 1940s, and for many years gave the impression of being forgotten." [1] Dimadick (talk) 15:02, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Future entities

Nominator's rationale: upmerge, one subcategory and one redirect is too little content for a category. Besides 'entities' is rather vague, although admittedly it does a fair job in Category:Former entities. Marcocapelle (talk) 20:59, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Civil services & other bureaucracies in fiction

Nominator's rationale: More succinct and searchable name, as bureaucracy also includes civil services. Brandmeistertalk 15:29, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dancing with the Stars winners

Nominator's rationale: WP:PERFCAT. Should be upmerged per precedent at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 21#Category:Category:Celebrity Big Brother winners (among others). --woodensuperman 08:43, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - if deleted, the contents should go into Category:Reality dancing competition winners, not Category:Reality show winners, though personally, I think it should be all or nothing. If this is going to be covered by WP:PERFCAT, then the entirety of the Category:Reality show winners should go. I would, however, prefer to see it kept, since the "performances" in this case are not of the standard type for the individuals concerned and as such, they fall into a hole in the "by performance" guidelines. This isn't like categorising actors by their acting role or opera singers by their opera - these people are participating as themselves rather than as actors, musicians, etc (if that wasn't the case, then the mix of individuals wouldn't be so diverse as to include a mix of politicians, sportspeople, actors, and other celebrities). Grutness...wha? 14:48, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - winners of these program are notable, being celebrity-themed shows, and I don't see how it is any different to distinguishing, for example, politicians by political party (Category:Christian Democratic Party (Australia) politicians as opposed to simply Category:Politicians) or award winners by type of award (Category:Best Supporting Actor Golden Globe (film) winners instead of Category:Award winners) -- Whats new?(talk) 08:53, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose The winning of these competitions is usually a defining characteristic for the competitors. PERFCAT is less relevant as that relates to people simply doing something, rather than winning a competition as a result of the thing they are doing. Lots of these show winners are more publicly recognised as a result than are winners of more august prizes. Not my thing, but it clearly is for others. SFB 21:30, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • In principle, Delete -- Merging them would not solve the PERFCAT issue, it would just make a new bloated PERFCAT. The problem with some of these reality shows is that the performers and winners are notable for nothing else, so that their articles would be orphaned. To my mind that raises the question of whether they are in fact notable at all. However if a series has had five series (and thus 5 winners), it may be better to keep a PERFCAT, rather than orphan articles. Peterkingiron (talk) 16:03, 6 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge to the target that Grutness indicated, namely Category:Reality dancing competition winners and also to a reality show participants by country category, e.g. to Category:Participants in American reality television series. We have been doing these merges all the time, for people who are only notable for having been in a reality show. Celebrities are deleted per PERFCAT, while common people should be in some category for having been in a show, but the specific show is less than relevant. Marcocapelle (talk) 05:15, 8 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dance India Dance contestants

Nominator's rationale: Fails WP:PERFCAT --woodensuperman 08:32, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Dancing with the Stars participants

Nominator's rationale: As all participants in the series are already "celebrities", these categories fails WP:PERFCAT. See Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2016 August 21#Category:Celebrity Big Brother (UK) contestants for precedent (among other discussions). --woodensuperman 08:28, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Grand Croix of the Ordre national du Mérite

Nominator's rationale: Per WP:Consistency with default article realm article name National Order of Merit (France). I equally educated the same update to the other related categories inside Category:Recipients of the National Order of Merit (France), although I am not sure how to go about that technically here on this page. If you know, please help me. Thank you! Chicbyaccident (talk) 20:44, 20 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry. Tagged. Thanks! Chicbyaccident (talk) 11:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I guess that would be just as fine. Chicbyaccident (talk) 09:18, 1 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Pourquoi the étrange hybrid de Anglais & French?
The current title is all French: "Grand Croix of the Ordre national du Mérite"
The English translation would be: "Grand Cross of the National Order of Merit (France)"
But the nominator's proposal is: "<French>Grand Croix</French><English>of the National Order of Merit (France)</English>"
Use one language or the other. Mais ce melange of deux vocabularies hurts ma tête. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs)
Good observation. I agree: "Grand cross" would be more suitable. Chicbyaccident (talk) 18:48, 3 March 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Adding sibling categories.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, – Fayenatic London 08:16, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Norman religious leaders

Nominator's rationale: delete per WP:SMALLCAT, no need to merge since the only article two articles of this category is are already in Category:Norman Benedictines and in the abbots tree. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:20, 30 April 2018 (UTC) - number of articles updated Marcocapelle (talk) 18:02, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is not about nationality but about ethnicity. Normans is not about inhabitants of Normandy per se but about Viking descent. I doubt whether we need a category of religious leaders for every ethnic group (while of course we do need them for ethno-religious groups). Marcocapelle (talk) 20:29, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment I question whether Norman is a truly ethnic marker. I am not sure if we can say much more about a person in the 11th-century said to be a Norman than that they were from Normandy, more especially those who had migrated from Normandy to either England or southern Italy. What the actual ancestry of these individuals a few generations back was is often unknown. By the late 11th-century it seems to have come to refer to those living in Normandy, and not be a true ethnic marker.John Pack Lambert (talk) 13:11, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • That is a fair comment. But by that reasoning they would simply have French nationality, as Normandy was a county/duchy of France. We do not distinguish Angevin or Nevers nationality either. Marcocapelle (talk) 16:00, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Commonwealth Coast Conference football

Nominator's rationale: Commonwealth Coast Football is a rebranding of the former New England Football Conference, which was taken over by the Commonwealth Coast Conference in 2017. However, the football conference remains a separate entity from the all-sports CCC. The CCC has a unique football logo, though based on the main CCC logo; see the CCC Football home page. More to the point, when the CCC announced in 2015 that it would take over the NEFC, it explicitly stated it would "assume operation of a renamed New England Football Conference." Dale Arnett (talk) 04:56, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: The potential issue with moving the main article as suggested is that Commonwealth Coast Football is a separate legal entity from the Commonwealth Coast Conference, despite the football conference being administered by the multi-sport conference. In fact, the NEFC has a considerably longer history than the all-sports CCC—the NEFC was founded in 1965, while the CCC didn't exist until 1984. I have zero inside knowledge on why this arrangement was made, but I suspect that it was done this way to preserve the NEFC's automatic bid in the NCAA Division III playoffs. — Dale Arnett (talk) 04:42, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:24 Hours of Nürburgring drivers

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorisation, specifically WP:NON-DEFINING. Considering most drivers have considerable experience outside of this race it can rarely applied as being defining towards this drivers career. Falcadore (talk) 04:03, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. We can't delete the category of the competitors of the notable stand-alone racing event, basing just on bias that "most drivers" allegedly "have considerable experience outside of this race". Corvus tristis (talk) 04:09, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Yes we can. That is pretty much exactly how WP:NON-DEFINING. If this race is not a defining characteristic of this drivers career it is non-defining. It's very simple. --Falcadore (talk) 05:45, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
    • Some examples - the three five times winners of the N24, the races most celebrated drivers. Timo Bernhard is a two time Le Mans winner, two time World Endurance Champion, two time ALMS champion and a class winner as well. His career is is clustered with results for which he is much more well known for. Not defining. Pedro Lamy spent four years in Formula One, won Le Mans and the FIA GT Championship. Non-defining. Marcel Tiemann, no here you can make a cased that his N24 results are defining. Go to the four time winners, Marc Duez has extensive experience racing Le Mans and Rallying Romain Dumas World Endurance Champion and three-time Le Mans winner, Fritz Muller doesn't even have a wikipedia article, Marc Lieb World GT Champion, 4 time ELMS champion, Peter Zakowski is best known for running Zakspeed for many years and like Muller does not have his own wikipedia page. --Falcadore (talk) 06:08, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The fact that some drivers don't have their own Wikipedia article yet doesn't mean that they aren't notable as N24 drivers. Wikipedia:Wikipedia is a work in progress, don't forget about it. And your opinion on what defining and what is not is purely subjective. It's oversimplification to define driver just by their two-three major career achievements. Corvus tristis (talk) 07:45, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
It underlines the relative lack of importance that the most successful drivers in the races history aren't considered noteworthy.
The core of the arguement here is overcategorisation and specifically that the category is not defining. I've not seen anything you've written that refutes that. All you've said is what I say is subjective. Where is the proof that the category IS defining for these drivers? --Falcadore (talk) 17:14, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I've not seen anything you've written that refutes your nomination based on your bias. It is your obligation of nominator to prove that the category is not defining. The only thing that you have said, that you don't like itN24 is less important than Le Mans and some other races, which is true, but doesn't make the category non-defining on drivers' career. I.e. Timo Bernhard. Are categories Rolex Sports Car Series drivers, FIA GT Championship drivers, Formula Ford drivers, European Le Mans Series drivers, Porsche Supercup drivers, Blancpain Endurance Series drivers, United SportsCar Championship drivers, 24 Hours of Spa drivers more career-defining for him than N24 drivers?Corvus tristis (talk) 03:46, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
You are right. A lot of those categories should be deleted as well for the same reason. Why don't you have a read of WP:OVERCAT, WP:DNWAUC, WP:NON-DEFINING. Go on. You say it's an oversimplification that racing drivers are defined by only two or three categories, but Wikipedias articles on the subject diagree with you. --Falcadore (talk) 06:11, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Well, according to that interpretation of the WP:DNWAUC, Category:Bathurst 1000 winners should be removed as well? Falcadore, are you really wanting this? P.S. Pierre Kaffer is a clear example of a stub. So, of course, it may haven't a mention of something. Corvus tristis (talk) 07:48, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Each category must stand or fall on its own merits, not those of others. That being said I have no objection to removing Bathurst 1000 winners. But that isn't the subject. And you shouldn't view it as any form of personal issue. --Falcadore (talk) 09:24, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Each driver has own-career defining competitions (especially if we reducing whole their career to two-three achievements) and it is a very opinionated. For André Lotterer, F1 isn't career-defining, but does it mean that we should the whole Category:German Formula One drivers category? No, it doesn't. The same is true for N24 drivers category. Corvus tristis (talk) 17:13, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for advice but I wouldn't do a list which will be deleted like the category because of the inverted and inconsistent interpretation of guidelines by some users. Corvus tristis (talk) 07:00, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Is your opinion that a list would be deleted based on any evidence? I.e. has an AfD deleted a list of winners of a significant race? DexDor (talk) 19:21, 2 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The category includes all drivers which have a wikipedia article, not just winners. My opinion based on some things said in the discussion and my experience on Wikipedia. So, of course, I haven't any desire to waste my time for anything which can be reverted or deleted. But if you want to listify by yourself, I wouldn't mind. Corvus tristis (talk) 03:26, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
We already have lists per year, for example in 2017 24 Hours of Nürburgring. A separate list article would only duplicate that information. Marcocapelle (talk) 06:30, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I assume initial propose was list like List of Formula One drivers. 2017 24 Hours of Nürburgring now is a stub with just result table, but definitely will be improved and will have more information in prose. Corvus tristis (talk) 07:47, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:LGBT people from Rivers State

Nominator's rationale: Overcategorization by location, which does not meet either of the conditions required to qualify for an exemption: the intersection of LGBTness with individual Nigerian state is not a defining characteristic in its own right (e.g. there is no state in Nigeria which treats LGBT people differently than other Nigerian states do), and with just one entry in this category and just five in the target category, Category:LGBT people from Nigeria is nowhere near large enough to require diffusion by individual state. Bearcat (talk) 03:00, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Category:All articles requiring attention

Nominator's rationale: I think this name is more specific and accurate. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 02:47, 30 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment what criteria are used when tagging an article with this category? I looked at an example, sugar, and looked at the talk page - nothing struck me as different than our normal ways of writing articles by consensus much less any immediacy. If it cannot be determined what the tag means, it may be best to delete the category. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 19:45, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete While the reasoning is valid based on the template, the use of the template shows this is not working. We have things needing "immediate attention" since 2016 and people rarely say why that attention is required. If immediate attention is needed, then that's what admin noticeboard are for. Tags (which you can add without reason) will never serve that purpose effectively. I've nominated Template:Requires attention for deletion. SFB 21:47, 1 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per SFB - I couldn't figure out what this is for, and now I'll concede it's unlikely that a consensus here will focus on a common use for it. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 17:43, 3 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ "Szkoła Podstawowa w Bełżcu (historic School Class Photo, 1950–57)". Archived from the original on 2015-05-28. Retrieved 2015-05-28. {{cite web}}: Unknown parameter |deadurl= ignored (|url-status= suggested) (help)
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