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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Warren (talk | contribs) at 06:00, 21 January 2018 (→Windows Server 1709: comment). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
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Windows 2000

Did Microsoft really ever refer to Windows 2000 Server as Windows Server? Josh 20:26, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

the "Windows Server" brand came out tin 2003 with the introduction of windows server 2003. however seing as hough NT 4 is listed here it should be included. --Charles E. Keisler (talk), Network+ 17:53, 9 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Windows NT Server

Why is Windows NT Server not listed in this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.50.124 (talk • contribs) 10:29, 22 March 2014‎ (UTC

There's no such thing as "Windows NT Server". The article now mentions NT 3.1 Advanced Server, NT 3.5 Server, NT 4.0 Server, and W2K Server, although they didn't use the "Windows Server" brand, they just used brands that had both "Windows" and "Server" in them, but not consecutively. Guy Harris (talk) 20:05, 19 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Windows MultiPoint Server 2010

Paul Thurott depicted this as another Windows Server line: Windows MultiPoint Server 2010-Supersite Blog

And indeed, it does use Windows Server CALs. Can someone contribute because I'm on the fence on whether it's really Windows Server. Jasper Deng (talk) 06:30, 25 February 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Change to category?

This is more like a category rather than an article.Jasper Deng (talk) 03:17, 20 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

No. We already do have a category. If it looks like a category to you, it sure doesn't looks so to a person who looks for actual information and searches "Windows Server". It is a stub and should remain a stub. Fleet Command (talk) 12:24, 8 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Windows Home Server

It seems implicit that Windows Home Server is not part of the Windows Server brand, yet a clear proof of the distinction would be appreciated

Windows Server 1709

Hello, guys

It has been suggested that Windows Server 1709 is NOT a feature update for Windows Server 2016, but a major new version of Windows Server. What has given ground to this suspicion is simply the fact that Microsoft has not called it "Windows Server 2016 version 1709" as it does to Windows 10. (The reason Microsoft did that is common sense. This phrase is an oxymoron.)

I am afraid that is no correct. Please see:

  • Microsoft Lifecycle Policy database for Windows Server
  • "Installing Nano Server". Windows Server 2016 Center. Microsoft. 6 September 2017.
  • windowsserver.com
  • Microsoft Evaluation Center for Windows Server

Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 12:17, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Then what about this quote?

Windows Server, version 1709 is not an update to Windows Server 2016. Instead, it is a new release in a different channel with a different support model.

--Lonaowna (talk) 12:25, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lonaowna: I am surprised you actually asked this question. The very next sentences tell you exactly what it means:

To move from Windows Server 2016 (or previous versions) to Windows Server, version 1709 you’ll need to run a clean install. In-place upgrades are not supported as Windows Server 2016 is a LTSC release and version 1709 is a Semi-Annual Channel release and they have different support models.

This is exactly the case with different LTSB releases of Windows 10: To move from Windows 10 LTSB 2015 to Windows 10 LTSB 2016, you need to perform a clean install.
But then there is prose in that same page that tell you Windows Server 2016 and Windows Server version 1709 are the same thing:

Q: What editions are available in the Semi-Annual Channel?

A: Windows Server 2016 has different editions to support customers with different environments and sizes, such as Standard, Datacenter, and Essentials. However, because the Semi-Annual Channel focuses on very specific scenarios (listed above), the only editions available in the current channel are Standard and Datacenter.

Clearly, this snippet is talking about editions of Windows Server 2016 that are available in the Semi-Annual Channel. And from the previous prose, we know it is only Windows Server 1709.
The rule of thumb is: If one source gives you a lopsided view of its subject, don't stick to it. (You'll end up committing Kremlinology if you do that.) Move on to more sources to get a broader view. Especially, blogs and other news items get outdated.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 14:14, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Codename Lisa: "This is exactly the case with different LTSB releases of Windows 10: To move from Windows 10 LTSB 2015 to Windows 10 LTSB 2016, you need to perform a clean install." I completely agree with you here. It is just like with Windows 10, there are Windows 10 {1703, 1709, 2015 LTSB, 2016 LTSB, etc}. In the same way, there are Windows Server {2012 (LTSB), 2012R2 (LTSB), 2016 LTSB, 1709, ?}. With that reasoning, 1709 is *not* part of the "Windows Server 2016" brand, but of the "Windows Server" brand. Again, see [1], which clearly separates "Semi-Annual Channel (Windows Server)" and "Long-Term Servicing Channel (Windows Server 2016)" as two different products and says "the current Long-Term Servicing Channel release is Windows Server 2016".
"But then there is prose in that same page that tell you Windows Server 2016 and Windows Server version 1709 are the same thing". Please re-read that quote. It says no such thing.
You blame me of only looking at one source, while you don't provide a better one yourself. [2] is clearly the authoritative one as it was especially written to answer questions and clarify things. It is completely mind-blowing how you can ignore "Windows Server, version 1709 is not an update to Windows Server 2016." and make up your own story based on sources which are not that explicit about the subject.
If the Windows Server Team can't convince you with their FAQ, I think neither can I.
Their plan is clearly to keep releasing 1709, 1803, 1809 etc, and then to do e.g. bi-yearly LTSB releases, e.g. 2016 LTSB, 2018 LTSB etc. What are we going to do when they release 2018 LTSB? Also put in in the Windows Server 2016 article?
Lonaowna (talk) 21:34, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
By the way, to continue with my last though: if you think I'm wrong about their future strategy, leave it as-is and change things when they release 2018 LTSB or 2019 LTSB or whatever and we'll change things then. I won't touch anything in the meantime. Lonaowna (talk) 21:38, 19 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Lonaowna: Hi again. :)
Let me address the most critical point here: In my last message, I asked you to get a broader view and not commit Kremlinology of one source. Yet, that's exactly what you are doing. Now what's wrong with that? Well, expectations from Wikipedia editors are very much higher: "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic." You are not even willing to see other sources and get a broader view, let alone dealing with the issue of them saying different things. You are assuming that:
  • The prose of the said blog post is exemplarily perfect writing
  • Eternally authoritative and not subject to getting outdated by the pass of time
  • Not subject to different interpretations by two different people (even though you and I are clearly interpretting it differently)
If you are going to do that, we will get stuck in this dispute forever, and I am certainly not planning to.
Things that make me think Windows Server 1709 is Windows Server 2016:
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 07:34, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Codename Lisa: Like I said before: I'm preferring the FAQ because it is very explicit about the subject. Your sources are not explicit about the issue. They are vague and you combine them with original research to let them say something that they do not actually say.
I don't understand how you can value a source which says nothing about the subject more than one that was explicitly written to answer our question. You act if I picked some fringe source just to prove my point, while it is the clearly the best one available.
"Windows Server, version 1709 is not an update to Windows Server 2016. Instead, it is a new release in a different channel with a different support model."
Please, point me to a source that says, with actual words in an actual sentence, that this is incorrect, instead of giving lists of pages that do not even mention the subject of the discussion.
Again, I'm focusing on this source because there aren't any other which are explicit about the subject. If you do not believe the Microsoft Server Team is "representing fairly, proportionately, and, as far as possible, without editorial bias, all of the significant views that have been published by reliable sources on a topic", I give up.
And by the way, it's "Kremlinology" not "Kermlinology". (you misspelled it twice ;))
--Lonaowna (talk) 12:04, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Doesn't mention SAC/1709 once. Yes. It means no such thing as "SAC/1709" in the capacity of a new product version exists.
I don't understand how you can value a source which says nothing about the subject more than one that was explicitly written to answer our question. And I don't understand how can you explicitly read a source's statement and write something completely different. You read " Instead, it is a new release in a different channel" and write "it is a new version of Windows Server." But the truth is, silence sometimes speaks louder than ambiguous text.
Actually, why I am trying to prove anything to you? WP:BURDEN says the burden of proving beyond all doubt that Windows Server 1709 is a new major version of Windows Server is on you. And I am not convinced by your blog post. Show me a stronger proof!
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 12:29, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
As I have already said, that is the only source I can find that gives a clear answer. In my opinion, that page proves it without all doubt.
I will leave it up to you to edit the page once the next LTSB is out and you see that you are wrong. I won't make any more edits here.
Lonaowna (talk) 13:01, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wait, who's trying to say it's a major version? The real question at hand is whether version 1709 falls under the title "Windows Server 2016". That's what needs a strong proof. - Josh (talk | contribs) 20:31, 20 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Josh the Nerd: Hi. Would a source that says both (2016 and 1709) are activated using the same license keys suffice?) —Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 05:04, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Codename Lisa: Not really. Windows 10 accepts keys from Windows 7 and 8.1, and the whole point of Software Assurance is that your existing license continues to work on newer versions. - Josh (talk | contribs) 05:14, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
That was true for retail licenses of Home and Pro editions only. Also, the whole point of MSSA is making money, hence new old license key DO NOT activate new products, so that companies are forced to get new ones, which are offered only with a valid subscription. Wow. You guys are full of assumptions. —Best regards, Codename Lisa (talk) 05:38, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I tell you what; "Windows Server 2012 R2" and "Windows Server 2003 R2" are completely new products with new support policy entries and all. If they can be covered in "Windows Server 2012" and "Windows Server 2003" articles, then "Windows Server 1709" can definitely be in "Windows Server 2016" article. —Codename Lisa (talk) 05:40, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(←) What I'm seeing here is a bunch of arguing over interpretations of primary sources, specifically Microsoft blog posts and support documents. Folks, that's offside. WP:PRIMARY is perfectly clear about this: "Do not analyze, evaluate, interpret, or synthesize material found in a primary source yourself; instead, refer to reliable secondary sources that do so." It's time to take a step back from primary sources and go to the secondary ones. Are technology news publications describing "Windows Server, version 1709" as an update to Windows Server 2016, a "major new version of Windows Server", or something else? That is our guide, not whether or not license keys work across versions. — Warren. ‘ talk , 06:00, 21 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

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