Talk:Common European Framework of Reference for Languages

The French aliance offers now 6 exams

The Frencha aliance offers now 6 exams based in this framework (b1, b2, etc...) although the ones mentioned in this page are still availabe. I think they should be included. ____

what does the asteriks behind the german language test mean?

Can someone explain it to mean. Additionally is there any international accepted german language test, like the american Toefl, or british Cambridge certificate.

--217.189.140.26 16:56, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Unicert

Is there any other connection between UniCert and the CEF apart from the fact that UniCert is based on the framework? If not, is there any reason to mention UniCert particularly in this article, apart from in the table? Saint|swithin 10:11, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Unicert has already existed before CEF. This mapping is important for people who want to compare old UniCert certificates to CEF certificates and to people who want to enroll for a CEF-based language class but already got a UniCert certificate. -- 79.238.174.32 (talk) 22:41, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

New Page: Proficiency

How do you feel about creating a new page "Proficiency"? I would like to be able to compare different ideas of language proficience, as they vary between European, US, and other standards, and do not feel that either the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages or the ACTFL Proficiency Guidelines pages would be sufficient. (Note: I am cross-posting this to both discussion pages) samwaltz 00:30, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Actually, as I am asking around in other discussion pages (Japanese Language Proficiency Test), it makes sense to keep the discussion on one page. Looks like it's off to ACTFL for this thread.samwaltz 00:34, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

DELF/DALF

Why you didn't put the DELF/DALF in the frame? It is the principal French language certificate. (Diplôme d’Etudes en Langue Française DELF / A1 Diplôme d’Etudes en Langue Française DELF / A2 Diplôme d’Etudes en Langue Française DELF / B1 Diplôme d’Etudes en Langue Française DELF / B2 Diplôme Approfondi de Langue Française DALF / C1 Diplôme Approfondi de Langue Française DALF / C2 )

International Baccalaureate? anyone knows? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.241.192.37 (talk) 12:46, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

LCCI

The london Chamber of Commerce and Industry is doing a similar examination. I've done "English for Business - Level 3" and now I have a certificate that allows me to study on every english-speaking university without additional language-testing. I was said that Level 3 of the LCCI was similar to CEFR C1. I'm just not able to find any sources. Maybe somebody can help. Maweki 08:23, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

Criticism ?

I noticed that there is not a paragraph about any criticism. Has the CERFL ever been criticized in some way or other that deserves to be mentioned? Onaryc (talk) 15:12, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

German

German certificates included. 82.113.121.154 (talk) 07:20, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

There are also the test of the Austrian Language Diploma (Österreichisches Sprachdiplom) and some others, but the Gothe exams are the most admitted ones. --Sebbe xy (talk) 19:58, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

TOEFL

In the table under Use in language testing scores exceding current top scale scores are mentioned (see TOEFL). Tom Paine (talk) 14:15, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

UK/British equivalent

I have no idea what NVQ level means, but do understand what GCSE, AS and A level all mean I have tried searching the web but can't find anything to show how CEFR relates to these equivalent qualifications Please can someone add this to the table? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.218.215.119 (talk) 15:28, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

If you look up NVQ you will find the approximate academic qualifications according to the LSE (look up LSE if you don't know what that means). The NVQ page is the correct place for this information, not on every single other page that mentions NVQs. If you don't understand something, look it up. 190.55.119.13 (talk) 18:38, 13 February 2011 (UTC)Robert Jones

Someone has decided that mastery in european languages (C2) is equivalent to an AS level (Level 3 NVQ). This is clearly wrong as most foreign language students on their year abroad have only reached B2 or C1 level at best. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.54.25.55 (talk) 20:01, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

This appears to have been copied incorrectly from the given reference, and I've now updated the article to reflect it. Fish-Face (talk) 02:48, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

I do not have a reference with which to back this up, but I have spent ten years living abroad since I was 18, and did pass my GCSE French with a grade A, back in the day. Having studied abroad I also realise the shocking tendency the UK has to consistently hugely overestimate the actual level of British qualifications, and this is another example. There is no way at all that an AS-level is equivalent to level B2. Most tests, like Norsk III, the NT2 Statsexamen (NL) and the SWEDEX one takes to demonstrate proficiency are at level B2, and at least anyone I know with an AS in language or indeed the full A-Level, or A2 or whatever they call them these days, would have been able to pass those kinds of tests... I think someone that showed particular interest, and scored an A in their A2 might have a chance at it, but even that would not be a sure thing. I cannot back that up, but I am not "unqualified" not least because I have done tests like those myself.

This table suggests that if I went to into the lowest "set" for French at a local comprehensive, the kids in there would be able to speak French, at level A2, that is:

Can understand sentences and frequently used expressions related to areas of most immediate relevance (e.g. very basic personal and family information, shopping, local geography, employment). Can communicate in simple and routine tasks requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar and routine matters. Can describe in simple terms aspects of his/her background, immediate environment and matters in areas of immediate need.

As it is written in this same article. I can tell you, certain-sure, that while one might have described MY French this way, when I had finished my GCSEs, one would already have been generous. The idea that the ones AIMING at a grade "D" at GCSE could be described this way, in my view (especially in the spoken language) is pretty far-fetched, no matter what we WISH were the case. Does anyone actually disagree with me in this, forgetting for a second the wishful thinking?

Princeofdelft (talk)

Please consider the following:

http://www3.open.ac.uk/study/undergraduate/course/l192.htm

"This course will enable you to reach a level of language proficiency comparable to GCSE level (grades A*–C), Scottish standard Grades 1 and 2, and Council of Europe level A2 (see Common European Framework of Reference for Languages for further details). In all other respects – for example, cultural awareness and analytical skills – you will be working towards Level 1 undergraduate outcomes."

In commentary, I have not critically evaluated the above, and personally I think it remains optimistic in practice if anything, however given that the OU is a reputable institution, and that the previous reference number 12 seems to no longer exist, I propose that the equivalences be modified at the very least to show that GCSE higher tier is A2 rather than this being foundation tier, and that AS level is at most B1 level.

Princeofdelft (talk)

It appears my changes have been reversed without countering the above discussion about why the changes were made. Simple statements contradicting these discussions won't do I feel, especially as the practical evidence simply doesn't support the claim that an A-Level (at any grade!) Means fluency, as it clearly does not, while level B2 does seem to imply basic fluency. Given the credible reference I provided, where even a UK institution admits that A-Level is B1 level, I feel this has to be answered. Princeofdelft (talk) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.179.170.163 (talk) 20:50, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Having inspected other references I will add the following defence of the above:

At the Open University, an accredited and high ranking UK institution, one is expected to be able to get a B.A. in modern languages by attaining level C1 proficiency in two foreign languages, in principle from a "standing start". If we assume, as the OU says, that A-Level qualifications give a maximum level of B1, then one's first year would be effectively plain sailing, on the condition that one had good results from one's A-Levels, in say, French, German, and some other subject. Unlike other European countries, Britain sees fit to award degrees the first year of which is essentially trivial in difficulty, at least when the right A-Levels have been studied (which is generally a requirement). Because, according to the OU, the A2 level, and B1 level courses are a half-semester (30 uk credits, 15 ECTS credits ) each, two languages means one year.

B1 to B2 progression, takes six months. If we assume A-Levels are B2 level, then we are saying that effectively only ONE year of studying beyond A-Level (not two) allows one to claim a degree in languages from a reputable institution in the UK. This is beyond even the UK's abiltity to award degrees easily, and I see it as proof that the A-Level=B2 hypothesis is discredited.

Princeofdelft (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:31, 2 February 2012 (UTC).

Copying equivalence table from fr.wikipedia.org was a mistake

This article has a table with comparisons of equivalence between the CEFR and other certificats.

The corresponding article on fr.wikipedia.org has a similar table, albeit with less data.

Someone recently copied the fr.w.o table and dumped it into this article.

Having two large tables with the same data is a recipe for problems. Editors will update and expand one or the other, but rarely both, so we'll end up with a mess. The point of a table is to facilitate comparisons, but if the data is in two separate tables, this can't be done.

Luckily, no one added any information to the duplicate table, so fixing this problem doesn't require any work to transfer any data from one table to the other. Some people did do the work of translating the French words of the dumped-in table to English, unfortunately, they were translating a duplicate, so there's nothing to salvage from that work.

I've moved the French table (now translated to English) to here (below). If anyone has a use for it, do remember that the version on fr.wikipedai.org might have been updated since this snapshot was taken.

Note: The long format is better than the wide format. If there's an emacs user or anyone else with good text manipulation skills in the audience, it would be helpful if they would convert the wide format table that is currently in the article to the long format. Gronky (talk) 00:55, 1 March 2011 (UTC)

Test	Language(s)	A1	A2	B1	B2	C1	C2
Zertifikat Deutsch	German	Elementare Sprachverwendung	Elementare Sprachverwendung	Zertifikat Deutsch	Zertifikat Deutsch plus	Goethe-Zertifikat C1	Goethe-Zertifikat C2
PTE General de Pearson (ex LTE)	English	level A1	Level 1	Level 2	Level 3	Level 4	Level 5
PTE Academic de Pearson	English	-	-	43+	59+	76+	85+
TOEIC (Test Of English for International Communication)	English	TOEIC Bridge : 92+ pts	TOEIC Bridge : 134+ pts	TOEIC 550+ pts et TOEIC Bridge 170+ pts	785+ pts	945+ pts corresponds to C1, except for written comprehension, which corresponds to B2)	-
TOEFL (Test Of English as a Foreign Language)	English	-	-	57 pts +	87 pts +	110 pts +	-
Cambridge ESOL	English	-	KET	PET, BEC Business English Certificate Preliminary (Cambridge)	FCE, BEC Business English Certificate, Vantage (Cambridge)	CAE, BEC Business English Certificate, Higher (Cambridge)	CPE
HSK	Chinois (Mandarin)	HSK 1	HSK 2	HSK 3	HSK 4	HSK 5	HSK 6
DELE	Spanish	-	-	«Nivel inicial»	«Nivel intermedio»	-	«Nivel superior»
ELTE-ITK	Esperanto	-	-	B1	B2	C1	-
HABE (Helduen Alfabetatze eta Berreuskalduntzerako Erakundea)	Basque	-	-	1. maila	2. maila	3. maila (EGA)	4. maila
CIEP (Alliance française)	French	DELF A1	DELF A2 / CEFP 1	DELF B1 / CEFP 2	DELF B2 / DL	DALF C1 / DSLCF	DALF C2 / DHEF
CILS	Italian	CILS A1	CILS A2	CILS UNO	CILS DUE	CILS TRE	CILS QUATTRO
CELI	Italian	CELI-Impatto	CELI 1	CELI 2	CELI 3	CELI 4	CELI 5
PLIDA	Italian	PLIDA A1	PLIDA A2	PLIDA B1	PLIDA B2	PLIDA C1	PLIDA C2
CNaVT	Dutch	-	PTIT et PTPB	PMT	PPT et PTHO	PAT	-
BULATS	4 languages (EN, DE, ES, FR)	0-10	20-39	40-59	60-74	75-89	90-100
DCL	German, English, Arabic, Breton, Mandarin, Spanish, Italian, Occitan, Portuguese, Russian, French Sign Language, French as a Foreign Language	-	Degré 1	Degré 3 et 2	Degré 4	Degré 5	-
CLES	9 languages	-	-	CLES 1	CLES 2	CLES 3	-
UNIcert	?	-	-	UNIcert I	UNIcert II	UNIcert III	UNIcert IV

Canadian Equivalents

The Public Service of Canada "A, B, C" system may not be correctly represented in the table. I could not find a reference to the actual equivalencies in the links cited. But there is a PowerPoint on-line that has different "estimated equivalencies".

Captain labrador (talk) 18:52, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

The report by Vandergrift is clear on this. See Appendix C of that report. I've reverted the change. You can include a sourced, separate table, but you can't present your equivalencies as being taken from the report by Vandergrift. 96.46.204.126 (talk) 10:34, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Illustration from the French article

• 
• 
• 

They can be easily translated using the "translate" template, visible on the image page on Commons. Yug (talk) 18:58, 16 July 2012 (UTC)

IELTS and CEFR

According to all websites of testing centres, universities, immigration services:

• A1...1.0 to 2.5
• A2...3.0 to 3.5
• B1...4.0 to 4.5-5.0
• B2...5.5 to 6.0-6.5
• C1...6.5-7.0 to 8.0
• C2...8.5 to 9.0

While there no other references these are supposed to be correct.--Divega (talk) 16:55, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

"Descriptions" Table

This is hard to read, and frankly quite ugly. The table clearly needs to be rotated code-wise to be horizontal instead. 03:28, 27 September 2012 (UTC)

Reading/Listening/Speaking

I am a little puzzled about the usage of levels that do not distinguish between reading, listening, and speaking. For example, I read well French and Spanish, but even if I have a medium proficiency in listening, I am quite bad in speaking them. I think that we should AT LEAT distinguish between: - reading - listening/understanding - speaking/writing IMHO--Dejudicibus (talk) 22:35, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

STANAG 6001

Has anyone considered doing a crosswalk between CEFL and the NATO Standardized Agreement (STANAG) 6001 "Language Proficiency Levels"? As both frameworks are heavily oriented on Europe and apply across most European countries, establishing equivalencies between the two systems should be useful. STANAG 6001 has been around for decades so is a well-established benchmark for language testing. Latest version is at http://www.ncia.nato.int/Opportunities/BizOppRefDoc/Stanag_6001_vers_4.pdf . I've tested across half a dozen languages against STANAG 6001 but CEFL is new to me, so I'm not the one to try to do it. Any takers? Bilhartz (talk) 13:40, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Japanese

How about adding JLPT equivalents?Kdammers (talk)

It looks like someone did, but I am very suspicious of the results. It lists N1 as being equivalent to a C1, but I know from experience that the test is even more advanced than the old "1kyu" level, which contained grammar and vocabulary that even native Japanese speakers sometimes had trouble with. A test of Shakespearian English would certainly not fall into the C1 category, and I suspect the same to hold true with the JLPT. Can't investigate where they got their information, though, since there's no citation listed. 27.140.141.100 (talk) 13:51, 13 July 2015 (UTC)AMW

• which contained grammar and vocabulary that even native Japanese speakers sometimes had trouble with—I don't know how you could say this. I passed the JLPT Level 1 in 2008, and I encountered nothing I could imagine a native Japanese high school student struggling with. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:04, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Trinity College London exams

Suggested corrections and clarification to the 'Rest of the world' section of this page:

1. ISE 0 to read ISE Foundation - 2. SEW 1 to read SEW B1 - 3. SEW 2 to read SEW B2 - 4. SEW 3 to read SEW B2+ - 5. SEW 4 to read SEW C1 - 6. The three Trinity exams (ISE, GESE, SEW) that currently share one row in the table could be separated into three rows, each with its respective citation number, rather than three together with three citations. This would also be clearer as the column heading is 'Certificate' (not 'Organisation'). 7. All references to GESE grades should contain the word ‘Grade’ – eg ‘GESE Grade 2’ not 'GESE 2'. eg

Mark Hunter - Trinity College London 13:13, 1 July 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MarkRetnuh (talk • contribs)

CEFR and HSK

It's complicated. See Hanyu Shuiping Kaoshi # Estimates of equivalent CEFR levels (2 September 2015). Since Hanban apparently does not uphold its original claims, the German (and French) estimates remain. --Gregor Kneussel (talk) 09:09, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

"other applications"

This section appears to exist for the sole purpose of referencing an online handout expressing a private idea. Very creative for sure, but I doubt that it should be referenced from a Wikipedia page. Bansp (talk) 16:53, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

why?

Why does this link Frantastique Certification lead to a page on Gymglish? 108.18.136.147 (talk) 22:29, 1 November 2015 (UTC)

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Validity of Japanese equivalencies in table?

The table gives the A1–C1 equivalencies of the Japanese Language Proficiency Test, but this is misleading in that (a) it's unsourced; and (b) there are no speaking or writing components on the JLPT. Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:02, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Equivalence table

Following up on the above thread: perhaps tests should be included in the table only when they've been developed in compliance with CEFR? Curly Turkey 🍁 ¡gobble! 07:28, 14 February 2016 (UTC)

Learning hours

1. Although the hours it takes to learn E, F, & D are sourced, they are simplistic. For example, a Dutch speaker can learn English much faster than a Hungarian or Finnish speaker, to say nothing of a Japanese speaker. 2. The hours given are cumulative. That should be explicitly stated. 3. There is an unexplained reference to two subdivisions (2.1 & 2.2).Kdammers (talk) 00:46, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

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What does "... is the margin" mean?

What does "... is the margin" mean with respect to IELTS. I am a college-educated native speaker of English, and this pretty much baffles me. 5.34.85.197 (talk) 17:12, 16 February 2017 (UTC)

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