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June 17

NEW NOMINATIONS

Category:Ex-ex-gay people

Nominator's rationale: This has been tagged for possible inappropriate labelling of people since 2010 and indeed doesn't look useful or defining. Brandmeistertalk 12:29, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient year and decade categories in China, Italy and the Roman Republic

Option A: merge to year categories "in Asia" and "in Europe"
Option B: merge to global instead of continental year categories
Nominator's rationale: merge to century categories per country (in both option A and B) per WP:SMALLCAT, nearly all these categories have only one article without a reasonable chance of expansion.
Note 1: this is a continuation of the previous nomination of June 9. In the previous discussion there was some support for an option skipping the continent category layer, so this has been added in this discussion as option B right from the start.
Note 2: on the talk page there is a list of container categories that naturally become empty if this merge is accepted. Though they haven't been tagged, it would be helpful if the closing admin deletes them too upon closing this discussion.
Note 3: all articles of years and decades in 201-280 in China are already in the tree of Category:Three Kingdoms which is a subcat of Category:3rd century in China so they don't need a double merge.
Pinging editors who participated in earlier discussions @Oculi, Tim!, Nyttend, Peterkingiron, J 1982, Neutrality, Inter&anthro, and Le Deluge: feel free to comment on this new nomination too. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:50, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ancient and medieval Macedonia

Nominator's rationale: merge because
  1. it's odd to have a modern country category and a historical region category next to each other while they both have the same name and a substantial geographical overlap
  2. we'd better remove the "(region)" disambiguator, thus keeping it deliberately vague whether we mean the historical region or the area of the current republic. This way the current republic can keep its category tree like other countries.
This is a new nomination based on this earlier discussion; pinging the participants of the earlier discussion @Peterkingiron, Laurel Lodged, Tim!, and Fayenatic london:. Marcocapelle (talk) 07:24, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose due to the rationale being surprisingly ill-informed. In principle, I find the "Ancient-era modern country X" categories silly and redundant, but apparently they are a thing in Wikipedia, and one should not mix things from different eras that mean different things just for simplicity's sake. I would support simplifying to "Ancient Macedonia", for instance, but not for the reasons stated, and not through a merge as proposed: the actual area covered by ancient Macedonia before its imperial phase does not really exhibit "substantial geographical overlap" with the modern Republic, which has more to do with Paeonia. Likewise, "Roman Macedonia", at its largest extent, covered most of modern Albania, large parts of Greece and parts of Bulgaria as well, and at its smallest extent, the province of Macedonia Prima corresponded roughly to Greek Macedonia, and Macedonia Secunda to the southern three quarters of the modern Republic of Macedonia. Frankly, the "X-era modern country Y" categories are rather ill-informed; Scupi (modern Skopje) for instance was never in Roman Macedonia, but in Moesia Superior and then Dardania, so definitely not "Ancient Roman Macedonia history in the present day Republic of Macedonia." as written in the category. Constantine ✍ 08:12, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Just generally, borders of countries unavoidably move in the course of centuries. For example France was much smaller in the high middle ages than it is now. Yet for no other country we make category distinctions like we now have for Macedonia. Second, to my best understanding, the current Republic of Macedonia belonged to the ancient kingdom of Macedonia since Philip II (i.e. for the larger part that we have sources and articles about the ancient kingdom); and it belonged largely to Macedonia Salutaris in the Roman period. If that understanding is correct then there is not much wrong with the proposal. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:55, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comparing France with this is apples and oranges. France has a continuous political history since Merovingian times. Names and a general geographical location aside, there is nothing in common between Philip's kingdom and the modern Republic. That is the whole crux of the dispute between Greece and the RoM, after all: the (inadvertent for the general public, but very deliberate on the part of the RoM) equation of "modern" Macedonia with ancient Macedonia (which, ipso facto, also implies a claim on Greek Macedonia) by sole virtue of the name. From what I can see here, Greece is right to be worried. Please read the rather comprehensive articles we have on the subject, they are quite informative. Constantine ✍ 10:03, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Do we currently have comparable categories for the surrounding countries? For example, I suppose Tirana was Macedonian of old, but of course it's not in the nominated categories. If we had detailed articles on its history (unfortunately we don't; even History of Tirana is a redirect to Tirana), would the ancient ones go in an Albanian tree or a Macedonian tree? I can see the benefits of categorising the ancient Macedonian articles together, regardless of the country in which they're located (one tree for "ancient by country of current location" and another for "ancient by country of ancient location"), but maybe that would be extraneous. Nyttend (talk) 10:37, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge all Things like "Roman-era Republic of Macedonia" are technically and encyclopedically inaccurate, as back then Macedonia was not officially a republic (to my knowledge), it's like "Roman-era Republic of Italy". The suggested names are also succinct. Brandmeistertalk 12:38, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Prostituted children

Nominator's rationale: I was asked this in my user talk page: (Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:38, 17 June 2017 (UTC))[reply]

Hi, Anthony Appleyard. What should I do about this? I was about to list it at WP:Requested moves, but, while previewing my post, I got a message that the page is not for category moves. I was pointed to Wikipedia:Categories for discussion. Either way, I think that the move should be reverted because it was undiscussed and I don't believe that the rationale provided by Doseiai2 is valid. I tried to revert the move myself, but something is preventing it. Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:26, 17 June 2017 (UTC) Flyer22 Reborn (talk) 03:29, 17 June 2017 (UTC)}}[reply]

where the pointer "this" points to this category page move. (The majority of this category's members seem to be not names of people but events and groups related to prostitution.) Doseiai2's move edit comment for the category page move is "Doseiai2 moved page Category:Child prostitution to Category:Prostituted children: fixed language that victimizes". Anthony Appleyard (talk) 04:45, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Category:Article namespace templates

Nominator's rationale: Category contains only one page, and it is a subcategory. — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs) 22:03, 17 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, ℯxplicit 01:18, 17 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]
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