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Proposals, December 2012

Latin stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Hi fellows. I am going through stubs related with Latin language - and I see that, so far, the only existing stub category is Category:Latin legal phrase stubs (which is OK). But, please, take a look at the Category:Vocabulary and usage stubs: the {{Latin-vocab-stub}} has not less than 70 articles (see this scan). And there could be other stubs around, directly dealing with the Latin language. So, what about creating a new Category:Latin stubs (as a subcategory to Category:Vocabulary and usage stubs)? Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 16:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Great, Anthony! Thanks for showing a way! I have completed other aspects of the Category:Latin stubs. It is ready now! Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 16:35, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jewish People stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was do not create.
This stub would encompass groups/people who are ethnic Jews or Jewish by descent. It would include the categories Jews, Jewish diaspora, People of Jewish descent, Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardic Jews, Samaritans, and all of the sub-categories within those. I don't know how to make stubs, so please bear with me if I'm not doing this right.Evildoer187 (talk) 03:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

How does this differ from {{Judaism-bio-stub}} (which categorises to Category:Jewish biography stubs)? --Redrose64 (talk) 14:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
That stub only encompasses people who are religiously Jewish. This stub would include people who are Jewish by descent.Evildoer187 (talk) 02:06, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
We don't stub sort people by ethnic descent and I don't think it's a good idea or remotely useful to start doing so. Severo (talk) 02:49, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
What are you talking about? There are stubs for people of Irish descent, Polish descent, Iraqi descent, Romani descent, etc. What's the difference here?Evildoer187 (talk) 03:53, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
There aren't any 'people by descent' stub categories, that I am aware of. We have a Category:Romani stubs, but this is for Romani culture in general, not for people of Romani descent. Generally, unlike permcats, stub tags are only applied for a persons single defining feature that leads to them having a wikipedia article. So categories like descent, year of birth, town grew up in, band a member of, etc shouldn't have stub equivalents. People are primarily sorted on occupation, and secondarily by nationality - ideally, nationality would just be how the occupations are subdivided, but in practice, some occupations are rare, or rare in a country, or hard to define, so this leads to further use of the base nationality bio tags. So people who's occupation or mark on history is religious, may be sorted by religion, but others would not, just as sportspeople might be sorted by sport or politicians by party. --Qetuth (talk) 11:20, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
You're missing my point. The current stub is restricted to Jews who are religious eg. rabbis. My proposed stub 'Jewish people' would include them, and those who are ethnically Jewish but not necessarily religious eg. Noam Chomsky, Jerry Seinfeld, etc. Think Romani stubs, which you linked to, but with Jewish people and not Romani.Evildoer187 (talk) 09:50, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
That's exactly the point though, we don't sort people by ethnic or cultural background and I don't think it would be useful to anyone to create such stub types and categories. Severo (talk) 13:05, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
Then why is there a Romani stub page?Evildoer187 (talk) 08:45, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
As I type this, Category:Romani stubs has 81 members in article space. Of those, 20 are biographies: not a high proportion. The bulk of the stubs in the category (over 75%) deal with Romani language, culture, history and so on, and are not biographical.
The biogs appear to fall into two types: (i) people who are significant for being Romani, and (ii) people who have become significant from some academic/musical/sporting/etc. achievement that also happen to be Romani. Those in the latter group - and perhaps those in the former group as well - should perhaps be given s stub category relevent to academia/music/sport/etc. rather than the Romani one. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:08, 28 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A number of HK stub types

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.

- 218.250.159.142 (talk) 23:29, 20 December 2012 (UTC)

This user placed a related message at Template talk:HK-poli-bio-stub which is now deleted; omitting the {{editprotected}} at the start, the full text of the message and of my reply reads as follows:
To carry {{poli-bio-stub}}, {{HK-poli-stub}} and {{HK-bio-stub}}, for political scientists, social activists, people appointed to serve as non-official members of LegCo, ExCo, UrbCo, district councils, etc., and people appointed to serve as non-executive heads or members of quangos. These people aren't politicians. (And in HK the word "government" refers almost exclusively to the executive branch, which includes only government secretaries (i.e. ministers) and civil servants.) 218.250.159.142 (talk) 14:06, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Not done: New stub templates should be proposed at Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Proposals and once approved there, may be created. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:17, 16 December 2012 (UTC)
Copied here by Redrose64 (talk) 23:50, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
It would also be good to rename/rescope {{KCR-stub}} to {{HongKong-rail-transport-stub}} - the Peak Tram articles do not appear to be KCR or MTR, and KCR is too small atopic to have its own stub tag --Qetuth (talk) 03:47, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  • The problem is that these people, who are mostly political scientists, social activists, appointed people, etc., aren't working within the government, nor are they politicians. That's why they ended up with {{poli-bio-stub}}. Further, I'm not proposing any new stub categories for these articles, but only a template to feed them into existing categories.
As for KCR and the Peak Tram, I'd suggest to keep them as they are for the time being. It could be bit complicated, since all KCR stations, tracks, and all facilities are still owned by their previous operator, the KCR Corporation. There are also things that were scrapped before the operation concession was granted to the MTR Corporation Limited, e.g., old stations.
For media, shall we add {{HK-newspaper-stub}} to feed into both Category:Asian newspaper stubs and Category:Hong Kong media stubs? For musicians and singers, I actually found quite a few articles that weren't appropriate tagged. Those stub types are probably underutilised instead of undersized. Let's hang on and see. 218.250.159.142 (talk) 11:39, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
I see your point about poli-bio-stub. For the music, I first noticed albums and musical groups were odd first-level children, and only after that noticed the undersizedness of the various music stubs. But it probably isn't needed. I threw a few newspaper stubs in media already, but didn't seem enough to need their own tag.
For the rail transport, my problem is that KCR only has 6 stub articles and is unlikely to grow, whereas there are clearly other rail transport stub articles which there is currently no stub for. The existence of the Peak Tram stations means I think a general rail tag is needed, and KCR is underused enogh I would have suggest deleting it if the rail one already existed to replace it with, so I tohught rescoping would solve both problems. --Qetuth (talk) 13:03, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
  • I'm working on and off to find out stubs that aren't already tagged with the appropriate Hong Kong singers/groups templates, and I'm quite sure that are still some. As for Hong Kong newspapers, again I'm not suggesting a new stub category, but a template to feed into existing categories.
As for rail transport, the problem is that there are very few other rail transport stub articles not already covered by the existing types to warrant a third stub template. The existing stub types may, nevertheless, split off stations (and stops) as a third type. 218.250.159.142 (talk) 22:15, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Environmental disasters

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
I've found over a hundred potential articles, most of which currently lack stub tags. I think this proposed tag is much needed. The {{environment-stub}} and {{waste-stub}} tags aren't covering it.

Karmos (talk) 08:08, 18 December 2012 (UTC)

Support - I think {{environment-disaster-stub}} is a better name, keeping existing fragments. It also shouldn't overlap much, if at all, with the existing subcats of Category:Disaster stubs. Upmerge to that and to Category:Environment stubs to start with, and create its own Category:Environmental disaster stubs once 60 are tagged. --Qetuth (talk) 13:09, 21 December 2012 (UTC)
Created at Environmental disaster stubs with {{environmental-disaster-stub}}. Karmos (talk) 07:53, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Western films by decade

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The result of the debate was create.
Propose the following templates, categories if sufficient counts found:

Dawynn (talk) 02:57, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Support 1950s plus...For the earlier 3, this creates a confusing overlap with Category:Silent Western film stubs, so I'm not sure... --Qetuth (talk) 03:16, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

United Kingdom steam locomotive stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Propose to create a stub template {{UK-steam-loco-stub}} and, at the same time, Category:United Kingdom steam locomotive stubs because there is much overlap between Category:United Kingdom rail transport stubs (contains about 70 articles on steam locos) and Category:Steam locomotive stubs (contains well over 200 that are UK). --Redrose64 (talk) 21:46, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Support Looks good to me --Qetuth (talk) 03:13, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
This is all very well, but what does "England Steam loco" really mean? is it Locos built in England, locos operated in England, Locos built by a company named England? etc. A more accurate description would be "English Steam Loco". Also, England is not Great Britain, or the United Kingdom - the three terms are very different. I think this needs more thinking about. Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 22:02, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Operated in England. Hence, Lynton & Barnstaple locos (as I'm certain you've noticed) get the England form, as do LSWR locos; but GWR locos get the UK form because many of them were used in both England and Wales. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:05, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that was where I first noticed! :) but it should perhaps be clearer in the description produced by the stub template? if nothing else, to avoid confusion with George England Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 22:11, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
PS LYD is very definitely Welsh! :) Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 22:14, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
How's this? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:20, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
Yes, that's great - thanks, I think it avoids any ambiguity. Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 23:40, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Footballers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Last one for the night I promise, but these are over 60 articles

might also be worth thinking about

as it would have between 50 and 60 articles but is the only template left without it's own category in Category:Central Asian football biography stubs Waacstats (talk) 00:16, 16 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy. For Tajikistan, I'd say leave it for now - it'd clean out most of Tajikistani sportspeople stubs, and it looks like it's already tagging all but 2 in the permcat and still under 60. --Qetuth (talk) 02:50, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Boxers

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Yet anouther template passes 60

Waacstats (talk) 23:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support--Qetuth (talk) 02:28, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cycling biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Guess what, a few more templates past 60 so propose

Waacstats (talk) 23:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support--Qetuth (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Handball biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Another template that has passed 60 so propose

Waacstats (talk) 23:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support--Qetuth (talk) 02:27, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swimming biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Another template that has passed 60 so propose

Waacstats (talk) 23:14, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support--Qetuth (talk) 02:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Basketball players

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
A number of categories have passed the 60+ article mark so I propose the following:

I know it's not the right place to ask this but does anyone think that we still need the four way split of the European category as after this a European category would have round about 500 articles and we wouldn't have the mess that appears know regarding the N/S/E/W split Waacstats (talk) 22:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support Unless those divisions are actually used within the sport, I think its time to take them to Cfd. --Qetuth (talk) 02:25, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Futher split of Category:Track and field athletics biography stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
A template has been cajolled to 60+ articles and therefore propose the following

Waacstats (talk) 21:48, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support--Qetuth (talk) 02:26, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

split of Category:European tennis biography stubs

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The result of the debate was create.
Two templates have been cajolled to 60+ articles and therefore propose the following

Waacstats (talk) 21:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Speedy --Qetuth (talk) 02:18, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Category:Norwegian sport shooting biography stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
I noticed that this upmerged template got more then 60 articles (scan), so I guess we can speedy create the Category:Norwegian sport shooting biography stubs. Btw, can I create the category at once when it is speedyable, or should I wait for a green light? Mentoz86 (talk) 00:34, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Support. Best to mention it here first, in case there is something overlooked like an odd naming convention issue. Also, the speedy criteria is for 60 transclusions of the template, not just potential transclusions (ie using asbox). When checking it I noticed it was only a few short so went ahead and brought it up above 60. --Qetuth (talk) 01:27, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bible translation stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Hi people. Once again with the topics of translation. But this time it is about the Bible. There are already some Bible-related stubs contained in the category:Translation stubs. But there are quite a lot yet to come, see, for instance, this scan (65 stubs about Bible versions in different languages); and we could eventually include stubs with biographies of Bible translators as well. What do you say about creating a template:Bible-translation-stub and a category:Bible translation stubs? Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 12:44, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Further: maybe a category:Bible translator stubs is worth creating, too - see this scan: 109 translator-related stubs dealing with the Bible. Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 12:30, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Sorry, missed this one. {{Bible-translation-stub}} looks like a great idea, and the category once it reaches 60, which it should. I'm less sure about the translators - This would sort of interfere with the by country split, and it looks like there are a few people predominantly notable for a bible translation, but others in the scan it was just of many things they worked on. I would suggest for now just make the first stub, and possibly add it (maybe as a second tag) to some of the more obvious bios). --Qetuth (talk) 01:53, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Qetuth. I am creating the Category:Bible translation stubs and {{Bible-translation-stub}}. Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 03:09, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Translator stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create.
Hi people. I am going through the Category:Translation stubs and also seeing the subcategories included in the Category:Translation. I think it could be worth to create a new stub subcategory, Category:Translator stubs. The reason: look at this scan, there are at least 62 articles related to persons who are or were translators. And further: there must be other translator-related articles that are not yet included in the corresponding stub category, but can be duly included there, as we can see from this scan. What do you say? Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 18:03, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

And, if you let me, we could further include some other new stub templates and categories, such as:
Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 18:14, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Support. I think by now we have enough articles on people who were primarily translators that a stub tag would be viable. --Ser Amantio di NicolaoChe dicono a Signa?Lo dicono a Signa. 19:16, 1 December 2012 (UTC)
Thanks, Mr. Stradivarius and Ser Amantio di Nicolao, for your kind support. I am creating the templates and categories. Regards, --Fabio Descalzi, aka Fadesga (talk) 17:34, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Literary character stubs

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed creation of the stub template and/or category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the template's or category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the debate was create novel-char-stub, MiddleEarth-char-stub and fantasy-char-stub.

In sorting stub articles that are part of {{WikiProject Fictional characters}}, a lot of character stubs have been tagged with {{lit-char-stub}}, because many characters are introduced in books before they become film or TV characters. Consequently, Category:Literary character stubs is growing (currently 635 articles), but all of these stub articles are also part of {{WikiProject Novels}}, {{WikiProject Literature}} or {{WikiProject Children's literature}}. Since there is already a corresponding {{lit-char-stub}} and {{child-lit-char-stub}} for the latter two, I propose that a new stub tag be created, to better classify these articles, and differentiate the stubs for characters that came from novels. Any suggestions? Fortdj33 (talk) 17:10, 1 December 2012 (UTC)

Articles tagged by lit-char-stub by Catscan:
  • Theatre characters: 32
  • Poetry characters: 19
  • Science Fiction characters: 46
  • Fantasy characters: 83
  • Novel characters: 324
  • Children's lit characters: 19
  • Characters in legends: 6
There is of course some overlap, and I haven't figured out where the other 250 or so are hiding, but:
Well, I think that {{novel-char-stub}} would be useful, because the other fictional character stubs are divided by medium (animation, comics, film, etc.) {{Theat-char-stub}} might also be useful, as it would be more specific (such as for characters from Shakespeare and Cats, some of which are currently using {{lit-char-stub}}). But I think that {{fantasy-char-stub}} is unnecessary, as it is too broad and could possibly include characters from more than one medium. Fortdj33 (talk) 21:24, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
I suggested fantasy because sf and MiddleEarth existed, and because I thought potential editors might be more interested in genre than medium, when so many chars cross mediums but few cross genres. (In this sense 'comics' is almost more of a genre than a medium). But thinking further you are right that {{novel-char-stub}} would be useful, and easier to clearly define that fantasy. --Qetuth (talk) 22:38, 4 December 2012 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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