Talk:Ajax (programming)

External links, contains spam?

The link named "Ajax tutorial" is everything but not the Ajax tutorial.. It's a website/forum with topics like: psychopath: do you approve? Does anyone here play Minecraft? Christmas, exclusive for Christians? ... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Burek021 (talk • contribs) 16:30, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

Acronym

Some inconsistance: The term Ajax is an acronym to "Asynchronous JavaScript and XML", said the article with a reference to J.J. Garrett'page. The page in reference says: "The name is shorthand for Asynchronous JavaScript + XML". So we must either change the article(I did it previously, it was reverted) or remove the reference. Macaldo (talk) 12:23, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Seriously, this again? What is the difference between a plus sign and the word "and"? — ^FatalError 05:42, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

No great difference. Then, why impose your version over that of the original article (the + term)? Macaldo (talk) 13:01, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Patent discussion

Undoing the change by Tom Sponheim to remove references to Birdeau and Aldridge patents.

With all due respect to Mr. Sponheim, the named inventor on the MSFT patent filed in 2000, while new and revolutionary at the time (and very cool), the Microsoft patent filed in 2000 does not actually cover an Ajax programming style. In the MSFT patent, the inventor teaches that data acquisition and HTML creation take place on the server-side. Summarizing some very nice work in a sentence is not real possible or subtle, but I will try. Any diminishment of the invention is merely an artifact of this communication medium and the brevity of this note. Mr Sponheim teaches, in part, that clicking on an affordance in a plain web page creates a new iFrame on the web page, opens a communication channel to an ASP server and the ASP server sends formatted data and HTML to the iframe where it is displayed. The "brains" of the system reside on the server. In contrast, the Ajax approach brings data from a web service, which is then formatted *by the client workstation and not the server* and displayed in the browser. The "brains" of this pattern are on the client.

Birdeau, filed in 2002 and Aldridge, filed in 2003 each teach the Ajax programming pattern. More importantly to this discussion, they were both granted by the USPTO and are verified by a third party source. (see references on subject page). Even if Sponheim teaches Ajax, the other two patents also teach Ajax and are relevant.

Debate about whether Aldridge should not be mentioned because it was filed subsequent to Birdeau, I believe, is not relevant. The Aldridge patent does in fact teach Ajax, and it was in fact granted by the patent office.

Someone else can decide if the reference to the MSFT patent is not relevant and should be dereferenced. I don't see a need, personally.

I'm happy to discuss these changes further. By way of disclosure and establishing credibility on the subject, I am a co-inventor on Birdeau and have been working in the browser technology space since 1995.

Mpeachey (talk) 17:38, 28 March 2012 (UTC)Michael Peachey

Per WP:Reliable sources, primary resources such as patents are not appropriate. What your posting is original research without providing third-party reliable sources indicating that these patents apply to Ajax. OhNoitsJamie ^Talk 22:26, 28 March 2012 (UTC)

The "Drawbacks" section suggests a matching "Benefits" section is needed for a balanced PointOfView

I thought I would suggest this before stepping in to edit a page that has been around for quite a while and to which many people have already contributed.

This suggestions seems consistent with http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ajax_%28programming%29#.22Drawbacks.22_section.

HansWobbe —Preceding undated comment added 13:36, 30 May 2012 (UTC)

The drawback section is too big actually. I use Ajax daily and have not encountered all these drawbacks! I have removed the sentence about "heavy applications" that consume too much power, because this depends upon the application and not Ajax. Macaldo (talk) 17:51, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

{{Cloud Computing}}

Shouldn't this article perhaps have the {{JavaScript}} template? יוסף שמח (talk) 08:17, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

 Done —SamB (talk) 21:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Complex Code?

"The asynchronous callback-style of programming required can lead to complex code that is hard to maintain, to debug[18] and to test.[19]"

That's highly debated, a lot of developers would argue that reactive asynchronous code is actually easier to work with than sequential code.

I don't understand the meaning of "can lead to", how is that even an argument? The two citations don't establish it actually being harder at all. I strongly suggest you remove that part. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.173.0.216 (talk) 22:57, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

1992 Inserted Information

Extended content

I am the person who inserted the 1992 entry (ie: Mark Manning). I can provide the location it happened (Johnson Space Center, Houston, Texas) and the names of people who still work there that were there when I was there and can verify that I used a Macintosh IIfx extensively, that I wrote software for a server that ran originally on the Macintosh IIfx (using the QuidProQuo server) and later on Silicon Graphics Computers (and later still on Windows PCs). Email me for their information (markem@sim1.us). I also wrote one of the first relational databases at NASA in Perl which a professor at Berkley California asked me to send the code to him. (I can not verify that my code was used to help get Postgres up and running but it was about a year after I sent my code to Berkley that Postgres did come out. At the time I was just happy that someone wanted the code. Don't remember the Professor's name.) I can provide the name of my supervisor as well as my NASA monitor (who approved both the posting of the article to Usenet about the Frames as well as the sending of my Perl code to Berkley California). My name also appears in the original MacPerl book by Chris Nandor as a major contributor. I was one of the people to support Matthias Neeracher's becoming an American Citizen and met with him when he first came to America in Dallas, Texas. (Just saying this because I just want you to know that I am not some fly-by-night nut case.) I may be able to find the original software I wrote. I keep extensive backups going back to the 1980s and I even have backups of programs I wrote on Apple ][+ and //e systems. The web pages were set up using Visual Page from Symantec for the Macintosh and consisted of one main frame with a series of hidden frames at the bottom (using the "*" as the height so they were hidden). I named the main frame "display" and the first hidden frame as "program" and the rest as "gofer_1" thru "gofer_X" (usually only three were used because when I experimented with this and used more the web page would crash). Using the document.frames[] array I would build a form on a gofer frame and then use the form.submit() function to send the request off. I used a flag (var loadedFlag = true;) to determine if a page had finished loading. (Simple Javascript defined() test.) The returning page would create this variable which would show that it had loaded. In this manner I could send and receive multiple requests back to the server at one time. My main problem with doing this was that the machines I used were not servers but just standard microcomputers. Thus, unlike modern systems - these calls could on occasion time out because the computers would not respond fast enough. When iframes came along - I abandoned this methodology in favor of the iframe because they seemed to work better although timeouts were still a problem on occasion. Let me know what else I need to provide to help with verifying this entry. --Mark Manning (markem@sim1.us) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.196.239.162 (talk) 18:35, 30 September 2014 (UTC) October 1st, 2014: I have found my backups from 1998 for my own personal Macintosh I had at the time. I presently use Windows XP but will download and install SheepShaver to get in to the Stuffit archives. Tried the Universal Extractor but it doesn't recognize the file format. This is because Aladdin changed their archive format when OS X came along. So I have to install SheepShaver, find my old Macintosh ROM files, install System 7.5, bring up the system, install my old Stuffit software, and extract the contents of the archive. And of course, document all of this with screen snapshots and video so whoever is reviewing this can see the dates on the archived files. I can also provide the Stuffit archive for examination to insure no tampering was done to the archive. This is a real trip down memory lane for me.  :-) Last - I may need to do this over the weekend as I am presently working 14 hour days during the week (working on a website) so not a lot of time to get this done during the week. But I will keep at it. Here is the layout I used. As you can see - I still use Visual Page v2.0. This is the Windows version (purchased on eBay for $6.00). (I will check to see which version I used on the Macintosh. It should be displayed in the source code like below.) This will produce an area for a menu (left) and the display area (right frame). Because the main frame is set to "100%, 0%", the second set of frames will not be shown. If you load your main web page into the "program.htm" frame, you can then (without jQuery) write to the other frames whatever you want. So you can put your menu into Frame1, what you want to show into Frame2. Frames 3-6 are hidden from view. Although if I remember correctly, you would see a flash (like a thin black line) appear for a fraction of a second when you fetched something in one of the GOFER areas. Please keep in mind that the hiding of frames in a frameset was done by many people. Netscape had a write-up about it when the FRAMES HTML tag first came out. At first I thought it was rather dumb. After all - why wouldn't you want to be able to see what you are putting in to a frame? But then I realized that if you could hide it you could use it to send/receive information. Since Javascript had the setTimeout() function you could use it to poll a server for updates and present those updates to a person sitting at a terminal. In effect, you could have several programs executing and updating a display if you wanted to do so. At NASA this meant that we could have various panels depicted and updated independently of each other. The problem, as I have already said, was that Netscape Navigator was rather unstable at the time (I think it was Netscape Navigator v2.x). So if you had more than a few hidden frames and you did keep on sending requests to a server - Netscape would crash. So only a few hidden frames could be used to do this. Still, even with just a program frame and a single gofer frame you could crash Netscape if you used it for an extended period of time. Basically, Netscape simply did not do very good memory management in the version 2 series. <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <!--last modified on Wednesday, October 01, 2014 09:39 AM --> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;CHARSET=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" Content="Visual Page 2.0 for Windows"> <META NAME="Author" Content="Mark Manning"> <TITLE>untitled</TITLE> </HEAD> <FRAMESET ROWS = "100%,0% " > <FRAMESET COLS = "19%,81% " > <FRAME SRC="menu.htm" NAME="Frame1" MARGINWIDTH="1" MARGINHEIGHT="1" NORESIZE> <FRAME SRC="display.htm" NAME="Frame2" MARGINWIDTH="1" MARGINHEIGHT="1" NORESIZE> </FRAMESET> <FRAMESET COLS = "25%,25%,25%,25% " > <FRAME SRC="program.htm" NAME="Frame3" MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0" NORESIZE> <FRAME SRC="gofer_1.htm" NAME="Frame4" MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0" NORESIZE> <FRAME SRC="gofer_2.htm" NAME="Frame5" MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0" NORESIZE> <FRAME SRC="gofer_3.htm" NAME="Frame6" MARGINWIDTH="0" MARGINHEIGHT="0" NORESIZE> </FRAMESET> </FRAMESET> <NOFRAMES> <BODY> <P> </BODY> </NOFRAMES> </HTML> Update: 10/6/2014: I finally found where I had placed my copy of SheepShaver on the 2TB disk drive I have of backups. I am now going through my backups. On the Macintosh I used Visual Page version 1.1.1. Here is some source code of an HTML web page: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html;CHARSET=iso-8859-1"> <META NAME="GENERATOR" Content="Symantec Visual Page Mac 1.1.1"> <TITLE>FRP Game</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY BGCOLOR="#004400"> <FORM ACTION="getUser.cgi" METHOD="POST" ENCTYPE="application/x-www-form-urlencoded"> Ugh.  :-( It appears my backups from 1998 all now have a creation date of 1998. It seems that Stuffit (at least the old Stuffit program) even gave my old Apple ][+ files a 1998 creation date and those are from before 1984! So I may not be able to prove what I've said at this point. I did find one of the FRAMESET files - but sine it has a 1998 date on it - it can't be used to prove what I've said. Give me a few more days if you will. I do have an old PowerPC system from that time frame (or rather I think about 1996 time frame). I will have to unpack it and set it up to see if it still has the files on it. If it does then maybe it will have the 1992 dates on it. Then all I have to do is to figure out how to do a screen snapshot I think I had some software to do that but I'm not going to worry about it until I can get the system up and running. There are a few more .SIT files I haven't looked at yet. Maybe they will have what I am looking for on them. As of right now though - I have to run off to bed so I can get a few hours sleep before I have to be up and off to work. Hang in there - I'm still looking. --Mark Manning — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.15.109.104 (talk) 05:42, 6 October 2014 (UTC) TL;DR You appear to be attempting to provide references based on files in backups of your own computer. Even if you find such files, they would not be considered a reliable source. In addition, it appears that what you are attempting to find would be considered original research. If either of those were the case, they would not be appropriate for inclusion in Wikipedia. Please see the links provided and the many links to which those pages refer to get a feel Update: 10/6/2014 16:27 CST - Thanks!  :-) I'll go and read those when I get home tonight. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.196.239.162 (talk) 21:25, 6 October 2014 (UTC) Update: 10/6/2014 16:50 CST - HOW ABOUT THIS: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/use$20javascript$20to$20send$20request$20to$20server$20in$20a$20frame$20mark$20manning/comp.lang.javascript/-tWEbSIZ9fA/RAAbjgN5WR0J — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.196.239.162 (talk) 21:50, 6 October 2014 (UTC) And this: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!search/use$20javascript$20to$20send$20request$20to$20server$20in$20a$20frame$20mark$20manning/comp.lang.javascript/-fwux_6LPgg/P_VwUXj_DYsJ Both are from 1992. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.196.239.162 (talk) 21:55, 6 October 2014 (UTC) Sorry - the entries were saying that they were auto signing everything so I did not think I had to sign them. The message I just got says to put four tildes after an entry to have Wikipedia sign the entry. So I am doing that HERE to say that I did enter the above. (I REALLY need to finish reading how to post. Working 14 hour days doesn't leave you a lot of time to read anything.  :-/ ) 66.196.239.162 (talk) 21:17, 7 October 2014 (UTC) -- Mark Manning I have removed my entry. Although I know I did this the earliest entries in Usenet that I could find are dated 1998. As such - I can not verify my claim. 66.196.239.162 (talk) 20:21, 15 October 2014 (UTC) --Mark Manning

Article name

So, I'm a bit confused as to how this article got lowercased TWICE without any entry in the move log for either move. Or why, it is an acronym after all! —SamB (talk) 22:45, 15 April 2015 (UTC)