Talk:Splashed white

Splashed White in gypsies

This article erroneously claims: "In the Gypsy horse, this pattern is called "blagdon:" "a solid colour with white splashed up from underneath."[2]"
[2] http://www.vanners.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/Breed_Standard-021309.pdf

The reference makes no claim that blagdon is genetically Splashed White, and is merely describing the patterning. The description is general enough that on this evidence alone it's not possible to clarify exactly what blagdon refers to, and the usage of the phrase "splashed up" could be misleading. Note also that genetic traits such as Tobiano are consistently capitalised, while the phrase "splashed up" was not.

For your reference, a blagdon gypsy typically looks like this: http://www.gypsymvp.com/horses/sundance/sundance.html

Note the irregular edges of markings, and the belly spotting. Compare this to Splashed White, in which "the margins of the white markings are crisp, smooth, blocky, and well-defined" and which usually looks like the horse has "been dipped, feet-first, into white paint". This bears no resemblance to blagdon.

In other breeds, blagdon is called sabino, and is genetically Sabino 2.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabino_horse#Sabino_in_draft_horses

I have been unable to find any evidence of a gypsy with clear Splashed White traits, or which has tested positive to SW1, SW2 or SW3.

If you want to claim gypsies have Splashed White, you cannot do it based on the quoted reference. In the absence of any supporting evidence, I recommend removing the above claim from this article.

118.210.247.68 (talk) 13:15, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

At this point, I dispute that this is an "error," but I think it's OK to move that bit from the lede and put it in the body text. (I think it was someone working on the Gypsy horsse article who put it there in the first place). Not all spotting genes have been defined. However to the best of my knowledge (provide a source if you disagree) there is yet to be a "sabino 2" gene identified - there are undoubtably multiple spotting genes yet to be identified, and a lot of what we used to call "Sabino" is now being identified as splash or even dominant white (for which there are now 20 alleles identified). Your example is what I'd personally call a sabino, akin to that color in the Clydesdale horse, but I must admit that it does fit some descriptions of SW-1 ("extremely large blaze, extended white markings in legs, variable white spotting in belly."). So, unless someone has done genetic testing to rule it in or out, these horses may very well be SW-1. According to UC Davis, the SW-1 may exist in more breeds than have been mapped to date. Some "sabino" coloring is called "splash" at times, particularly in Europe. I also must note that the SW-1 has extraordinary variability: see here. Montanabw^(talk) 02:46, 28 November 2014 (UTC)

While you are right that SW1 can potentially hide or be mistaken for other things, there is not yet any evidence to support the hypothesis that SW1 is present in the gypsy breed, or that it goes by the name of blagdon if it does occur, but this article states it as fact. It seems to me that this has just arisen from someone misunderstanding the source material, rather than from clear evidence such as genetic tests or studies.

This statement appears to constitute original research, as it "reaches or implies a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves."

Without any supporting evidence for this statement, it needs to be omitted until such evidence is found.

14.2.60.183 (talk) 10:27, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I tossed it from the lede because that's where the heartache seems to be the worst. But the color description in the source IS the description of splash, and the source doesn't use the word "blagdon" at all. Further, the pattern you call "blagdon" is called "Sabino" by a lot of people in the US, particularly for Clydesdales) but it IS called "splash" in parts of Europe. And "blagon" is just insider talk for the pattern. Similarly, the Fjord horse people have special names for the color varieties of their horses, which are, at the end of the day, all duns. So unless you have "proof" that "blagdon" is a genetically tested form of Sabino (which no one has), the issue goes both ways. I think it was a Gypsy horse expert who added the "splash" bit anyway. The OR I see is actually the PR of people wanting to give a well-known color pattern a fancy name different from other breeds. This is no different from the gaited horse people wanting to claim that their breed's ambling gait is totally not the same as another breed's ambling gait. Seriously. These horses are going to sell for big bcks no matter what you call their color. And not all splash genetics are connected to deafness. (Splash horses with white ears appear to be connected to deafness) Montanabw^(talk) 17:32, 2 December 2014 (UTC)

I think you are missing the point. The question is, does this source (or any other source for that matter) state that "blagdon" is Splashed White? The source does not state that it is, all it says is "Blagdon* – Solid color with white splashed up from underneath" (not sure why you said the source doesn't mention blagdon). To extrapolate from this description and say that blagdon is the same as Splashed White constitutes original research on the grounds that it "reaches or implies a conclusion not clearly stated by the sources themselves." It is not enough to say that it might be true, especially since there are several different patterns that could match that description, including Sabino. Wikipedia deals only with that which can be shown to be correct. It is not the place for hypotheses. I reiterate that this claim needs to be removed from the article until evidence for it is found.

My other statements were merely trying to point out that the hypothesis was probably incorrect, but regardless, it is still a hypothesis and as such has no place here.

129.96.83.65 (talk) 03:09, 3 December 2014 (UTC)