Talk:Ladies' Code

Edit request: TV show appearances

Rise was on MBC Star Diving Show Splash in episode 1.

Sojung and Rise were on SBS Incarnation in episode 28.

EunB and Sojung were on SBS 1000 Songs Challenge in episodes 263 and 264.

All members were on SBS Star Face Off (Chuseok Special).

All members were on Y-Star Gourmet Road in episode 148. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.189.96.112 (talk) 15:16, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not cited reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to any article. - Arjayay (talk) 14:55, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Edit request on 20 September 2013

Please change the link to the international forums (http://ladiescodeintl.b1.jcink.com) to http://ladiescode.tk/forum, because their site has been moved. Wohuifei (talk) 00:27, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

Done Thank you! Dana boomer (talk) 21:50, 21 September 2013 (UTC)

Pretty Pretty has re-peaked.

Pretty Pretty (the single) peaked at #14 on the Gaon Digital (overall) chart. Its peak in the singles section is therefore wrong.

http://gaonchart.co.kr/digital_chart/?nationGbn=T — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.175.154.186 (talk) 07:15, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

That's a peak of #20, not #14 71.104.231.7 (talk) 16:05, 24 September 2013 (UTC)

EunB's status as "former/past" member

Eun B should not be listed as a former or past member of Ladies' Code due to her death. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 23:27, 2 September 2014 (UTC) Srsly fix this asap if someone can what the hell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by NekmoT (talk • contribs) 23:45, 2 September 2014 (UTC)

While her death is certainly a tragic event, EunB will still be listed under as a former member as she had been part of the group and should be noted. Rockysmile11 (talk) 00:16, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes, but the way it's written is... Well. It's really insensitive. "Reason for leaving: Died on September 3, 2014". Can you put something a bit more tactful, please? Also, please update the info about the car accident - Sojung was in critical condition, but has been stabilized. RiSe is still in critical condition and required emergency brain surgery. The cause of the accident was the vehicle losing a back wheel. 23.16.255.231 (talk) 01:56, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Another Wikipedia user added that table, but I can definitely re-word to suit it better. I will add that info once I find reliable sources to reference it too. Rockysmile11 (talk) 02:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you and I'm glad other people felt the same way. I know technically she had to be listed as such, but something about the wording seemed very indelicate and . I didn't want to seem like just a heartbroken over-sensitive fan. The edit is definitely better. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 05:01, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps it would be more respectful to remove titles like current/former/past, let her name remain on the lest of members (again, removing the title, "current") and simple add "deceased" in parenthesis beside it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ralphbsmart (talk • contribs) 05:13, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

What's the point of updating the article realtime? Yes, I came here because of the news but I just wanted to know who they are, not the current condition or "past member" status. What the hell? So do you, who updated the article, feel superior or some accomplishment? Repent! Just block this article from editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.95.24.145 (talk) 06:25, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I definitely agree with @76.95.24.145's comment. There shouldn't be a "current members" or "past members" on here. Until, the company says anything about their line-up and future activities it should be left as "members" even including EunB. Article is poorly written and is insensitive using words such as EunB's dead, died, death. Someone needs to edit it and use more respectful terms such as the passing of EunB, or EunB's passing. Anyways, back to the "members" just remove current and past and leave Eunbi in there with a † sign and a note saying she has passed. After that just disable all editing afterwards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.23.209.120 (talk) 06:32, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

I've edited the article to cut out the former members section (I have, however, added the inactive bracket next to EunB's name as similar to the members section with Kris from Exo). I've also re-tensed the introduction because it bothered me severely that they said Ladies' Code WAS... no, Ladies' Code still IS a Korean Pop group. Just a reminder that TENSE is important when editing this article. Tibbydibby (talk) 19:21, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

Unofrunately, EunB dying does mean she is a former member, and should be listed as such. The problem is how to list it without just saying it bluntly like "reason for leaving: death," but as other groups (not K-pop ones necessarily) have lost members the same way there's no reason to keep her in the active members roster. Also, while I didn't see it on the version I edited for tense issues, unless Polaris Entertainment notes that Ladies' Code is done (whether it be because of this accident or whatever other reason), the group is still active, making it correct to keep the opening line as "Ladies' Code is a South Korean girl group [...]" and not "was a South Korean girl group". ハロー☆リンク-Hello Link- 20:06, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

September 6 2014 Signed by vintao_panda

I was just informed that Rise, member of Ladies code had past away today at 10:10. I would like to edit the page so that Rise has the cross next to her name. This death is very saddening and rise is now a former member but should still remain in our hearts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vintao panda (talk • contribs) 02:57, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Seems it is done. — Revi_complaint? 03:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Airbag didn't deploy or the rear wheel fell off?

I've read this news article saying this: 3일 레이디스코드 소속사 관계자에 따르면 사고 원인은 갑작스레 뒷바퀴가 빠졌기 때문이다. 하지만 운전석, 뒷좌석 어디에서도 에어백은 터지지 않았다. Translation: According to officials of Ladies' Code agency, the cause of the accident was due to the rear wheel fell off. But the airbag didn't deploy at the driver's seat, and the rear seat too. Somebody should research about this. ចេក ម៉ានុត (talk) 04:53, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

Right after that sentense, they also said Police investigation is ongoing and they (agency) doesn't know details. So we need to wait for Police. (Also, for Chosun.com articles, archive it on http://archive.org, because chosun.com is known to restrict article to paid user only after 7 days of publish. (so, here's the archive.org page.)) — Revi_complaint? 05:15, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

So I've found this article today, and it says that the cause is the rear wheel (made by Starex) fell off.ចេក ម៉ានុត (talk) 05:28, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2014

| current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny | past_members = EunB †
Rise †

Suggesting a change for this because Eunbi and Rise are not past members, they are deceased but will forever be part of the group. Suggesting to change the above to the below.

| current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny
EunB †
Rise †

T.taemaaaan (talk) 21:35, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

I agree completely, at the time of their deaths they were still members of Ladies' Code and should not be considered otherwise. Ralphbsmart (talk) 21:59, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

It should be left as is. Other groups have lost members to death and they are also marked as former members even on groups that are still active. ハロー☆リンク-Hello Link- 23:34, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done Numerous groups have had members die, and these are all included in the "past members" section. The only change needed is the removal of the two † symbols, as Template:Infobox musical artist states the under both current members and past members "no other notation than names" - Arjayay (talk) 07:15, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2014

{{Infobox musical artist | name = Ladies' Code
레이디스 코드 | image = 나쁜여자 레이디스코드 (LADIES' CODE) 다문화 가정 돕기 희망콘서트 용산 아이파크몰 이벤트광장.jpg | caption = Ladies' Code in November 2013. From left to right: Sojung, Rise, Ashley, EunB and Zuny. | image_size = | landscape = yes | background = group_or_band | origin = Seoul, South Korea | genre = K-pop | years_active = 2013–present | label = Polaris Entertainment | associated_acts = | current_members = Ashley
Sojung
Zuny EunB (deceased)
Rise (deceased) EunB
Rise | website = http://ladiescode.com Yoonaeunah (talk) 10:52, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

I cannot understand what is going ot be changed here. — Revi_complaint? 11:21, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done please see the post above, which explains about members, ex members and that there shall be no additional information. - Arjayay (talk) 11:30, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

"Past Member" versus "Member"

I believe it is inappropriate to list EunB and RiSe as "Past Members". In today's society many groups continue to list as members those who long ago passed away. In fact, it is common for various social groups to list their favorite people as members forever. In any event, it is the group itself that defines their own membership.

The members of Ladies Code are bound by many bonds, not the least of those, grief. They are of the same age group, same industry group, same entertainment group, same likes and dislikes. To say that upon death all of these bonds are now broken is not reasonable. To say that someone is automatically ostracized from a group because they pass away is beyond any reasonable jurisdiction of those who are not the decision makers of that group, i.e. the members themselves. In other words, the decision of who is a member belongs solely that of the group itself.

To split the membership of Ladies Code, especially as has been done in the article, does not have any source reference that I can find. Polaris Entertainment has given no indication that the group has been changed. Their website still shows all “members” as “members”. No one has been summarily dropped. Their Facebook also shows all “members” as “members”. I can’t imagine that will ever change.

In the future, as their lives settle down, perhaps the facts will change, but it should not be written now in Wikipedia. The membership has not changed. Even if the remaining members go on to make a comeback, it is their decision to list their beloved friends as “past members,” and not anyone else.

I believe it is appropriate to show that EunB and RiSe have passed away. But that should be done in the body of the article, not in the Member’s box. As currently shown, the Member's box is a glaring failure in etiquette.

I understand that various guidelines have been established to ensure a measure of uniformity in the Wikipedia universe, but as far as I can see in my review, these guidelines do not dictate such an arbitrary judgment in the event of a death of a current business/social/k-pop group. Indeed, if by some interpretation Wikipedia guidelines do call for such action, those guidelines should be changed.

I am proud of Wikipedia, but I believe that the decision making around this topic exceeds the bounds of appropriate behavior. This is not meant as a personal attack on anyone, just my belief of what is acceptable in today’s global society.

REQUEST: Please change the membership of Ladies Codes to show only “Members” and not “Past Members.” If this cannot be done then I request that this be taken to arbitration. Enkelisiipi (talk) 06:00, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

This has been discussed in the past, at Template talk:Infobox musical artist - as in this example from the archives (there are others in the archives if you look) and although not discussed at length, the consensus seems to be against you.
Without wishing to be brutal, unfortunately, these two girls are dead, and cannot, therefore, be a "member" of anything. If the remaining members decide to disband the group, they are all "past members", and there is no problem; but what happens if they continue performing? our list of "current members" would include two people who cannot appear, so is clearly incorrect; and if the remaining members sign up new members, does someone going to see the group, expect to see two more people than are on stage?
To take a parallel example - Lynyrd Skynyrd lost three members in a plane crash, and four more former members of the band have also died - We don't list all 7 of these with the 7 "current members" making it look like the band currently has 14 members. I don't know of any Wikipedia article that includes dead artists in the "current members" list; perhaps you can point some out?
Wikipedia needs to be consistent in its approach, across all articles, not have one rule for one article and another rule for another. So if you want to take this to arbitration, I think you need to canvass opinions at Template talk:Infobox musical artist before doing so. - Arjayay (talk) 17:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you for the reference to the Template talk:Infobox musical artist page. Unfortunately the page listed as “Current Talk Page” says that discussion is closed so I’m not sure how to address this topic.

Even if this is a current policy it is still inappropriate. If a policy causes harm it is wrong. If it is wrong it should be changed. Perhaps the answer is to put a moratorium on inventing history for a two year period in the event of an artist’s death. Perhaps it would be to wait for an announcement from the group itself that the group now considers its membership changed. Perhaps a mixture of these two concepts or something else.

Whatever the answer is, it is not to gleefully jump into the documented history of a group within hours of a tragic event and say, “Oh ho! You are now a *past* member.” The pain and suffering such an action can cause to the family members, loved ones and other members of such a group is uncalled for and totally unnecessary. It is especially callous to do so to members of an Korean/Asian group who are extremely sensitive to such kinds of family-like relationships.

Your comment, “Without wishing to be brutal, unfortunately, these two girls are dead, and cannot, therefore, be a "member" of anything,” is also incorrect. People who have passed away often remain on the member lists of all kinds of social and historical groups. For example, such lists include Presidents of the United States, Famous Generals, Wikipedia Authors, and more.

In your citation regarding Lynyrd Skynyrd, I noticed the following sentence: “Out of respect for the deceased (and at the request of Teresa Gaines, Steve's widow), MCA Records withdrew the original cover and replaced it with a similar image of the band against a simple black background.”

It is this kind of respect that I am referring to. It is inappropriate to declare a change in the status of a young lady who meets a tragic end without such change being announced by the group itself. Making the change arbitrarily is to invent history, not record it.

I would appreciate knowing how to bring this issue up to the Template talk:Infobox musical artist or an Arbitration Board. Enkelisiipi (talk) 10:53, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

If you want the consensus to be reconsidered, you need to start a new topic at Template talk:Infobox musical artist. Until then please stop changing the infobox. Before you knew the consensus, your changes were an innocent mistake, but now you do know it, to make changes in contradiction to it, is vandalism.
Please also note that as stated at Template:Infobox musical artist "For multiple members joining concurrently (such as the formation of the band), list them according to alphabetical order" not according to date of birth. - Arjayay (talk) 12:27, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

This is the type of fanboyism that is not needed here. Your feelings do not change the fact that they are no longer members as they have passed away. Yes, it was tragic. But you can't change fact. Should I declare Abraham Lincoln President of the United States. I mean, he didn't quit. He was killed. He should be president forever. Am I right?Correctron (talk) 23:47, 16 September 2014 (UTC)