Talk:Javanese script

A request has been made for this article to be peer reviewed to receive a broader perspective on how it may be improved. Please make any edits you see fit to improve the quality of this article.

Javanese script was nominated as a Language and literature good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (May 6, 2014). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated.

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This article was the subject of an educational assignment that ended on 2008 fall semester. Further details are available here.

earlier comments

Come on - this article is barely a stub. Not much there at all. Merbabu 13:47, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

What this article desperately needs are images of the script. id:Berkas:Hanacaraka-jawa.png says it's GFDL, but—as it doesn't say anything about how the image is created—I'm hesitant to use it, in case it uses a non-GFDL-compatible font. — LazyEditor (talk) 14:12, 27 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Plus, unfortunately, id:Hanacaraka smells too much like plagiarism to me. — LazyEditor (talk) 12:43, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Well I have uploaded the picture on commons recently. Meursault2004 15:34, 9 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Oversized box for history of scripts

Is there really any need for a small article to have to carry such an unwieldy side box? Satu Suro 11:56, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

no - have you scrolled down? You may not have seen all of it! --Merbabu (talk) 12:03, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I agree the box with the entire genealogy of the Brahmic languages is too large, and can probably be removed. (There should be links to other languages of the same family, but the entire genealogy is maybe more something for the Brahmic family page.) Joost (talk) 12:57, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I replaced them with links in the see also section. RJFJR (talk) 15:27, 27 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Citations needed

This article needs to be converted to inline citation for fact checking rather than just a list of further reading. Also I remove stats from the lead as per WP:LEAD it should be a summary of the article, the article doesnt have anything about how many people use the script, nor does it cover anything about publications in Javanese script. Additionally I find the stats rather hard to believe out of population 125 million speakers only 6.4% of them can write it, thats why Wikipedia requires citations. Gnan garra 06:32, 5 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

quote request

This replaced the Javanese script and as a result, there are currently no newspapers or magazines being printed in the Javanese script even with over 8 million Javanese speakers. I have tagged as requesting a direct quote as this seams a particularly low figure and also clarify when "currently" existed in relation to the source. Gnan garra 16:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From Marc

I added a coupld of links where they seemed necessary.

In the Scripts section, maybe there is a better way to organize the information. It struck me as a little confusing or overwhelming. In this section, the sentence "Only l, r, w, and y can form consonant clusters in Javanese." could be a little clearer, maybe with a better way to show sounds than just listing letters.

Also, the Javanese section perhaps should be titles something else, especially since the whole page is called Javanese. Maybe something like "Characteristics" would be better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Matanuska (talk • contribs) 00:32, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From Melissa

Overall, I like the organization of this page. Sections are clear and logical. You added a lot of useful information.

I have two suggestions:

1) This article doesn't contain very many links to other Wikipedia pages. You could add some which link to the pages for terms you use in the article.

2) Some information is repeated in a few places throughout the article, so you could fix that. Also, it might be helpful if you explained a bit more clearly the information you have in the "Javanese" section. Zoogzy (talk) 19:11, 19 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

More possible improvements

The direction of writing doesn't appear to be mentioned anywhere on the page - this should probably be added. Also, it is noted that despite there being over eight million speakers of Javanese, there aren't any more newspapers or magazines written in the Javanese script being produced - perhaps some information about the number of people who recognize/use Javanese script versus the number of people who speak Javanese, but use the new Latin alphabet system could be added. —Fuzzy Pickle (talk) 00:57, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

From Jia

In general, I think your page is incredibly detailed but I feel like the details might be a bit overwhelming and messy sometimes. The scripts section was a bit confusing to read and digest. Perhaps adding some kind of phonetic chart (If available) for the consonants/vowels to organize it a bit. Also, maybe a little mention about how the current latin alphabet script compares to the carakan script.cjdz (talk) 02:22, 20 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unicode

It think it's official now as of October 2, 2009. Don't have the link yet though. Meursault2004 (talk) 06:55, 4 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Javanese Script: Abjad or Alphabet?

Javanese Script: Abjad or Alphabet? Gunarta (talk) 02:10, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Neither. It's abugida, as stated in the article. Who changed the title into "alphabet"? Jiwa Matahari (talk) 13:04, 12 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Anjad is Arabic style alphabet and Abugida, maybe, Javanese - but both are alphabets, right? Hindustanilanguage (talk) 08:03, 18 June 2013 (UTC).[reply]

The term "alphabet" is mistakenly used for any writing systems by the general populace. "Arabic alphabet", "Javanese alphabet", and so on. But since the article is discussing a script, it should not be regarded as that. An "alphabet" is a writing system in which consonants and vowels are equal letters. An "abugida" is a writing system in which consonants are the letters while vowels are diacritics. A standalone vowel diacritic in an abugida system is not considered a letter, while a vowel letter in an alphabet is. An "abjad" on the other hand, only has consonant letters while the vowels are guessed through context. In summary, Javanese is perfectly an abugida. Alteaven (talk) 08:43, 18 June 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Peer review request

A peer review request of this article has been filed: Wikipedia:WikiProject Indonesia/Peer review/Javanese script. Bennylin (talk) 13:52, 2 July 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Possible improvements, May 2014

OK, I read the article thoroughly and I have some feedback.

Under Aksara, give an example for each of the ɔ/a rules.
Additional Aksara should be split into with the pa cerek, nga lelet, nga lelet raswadi (and include a pa cerek + tarung) and ra agung in one category, and then have an entire (sub?)section for Aksara Rekan. Also, there are a lot of rekan: http://www.omniglot.com/writing/javanese.htm.
In Sandhangan, add names for the sandhangan swara, and include the ones for the long vowels too. Honestly, the previous thing that was there that covered the vowel diacritics was better. The first several sections of the article should simply be about the script itself, with no partiality to which language being transcribed.
Also, add the difference between using the pasangan for ya and ra, and the pengkal cakra, referencing the fact that Javanese uses no spaces. Make note that the panyangga is only used for Om (Ong) and that the wignyan is not found medially.
Under Numerals, there was a picture I believe of the date in Javanese, and I can't render Javanese on my comp (and I think most people can't), so a pic would be pretty useful.
Add some pictures of very ornate rerenggans.
After the Collation section, do a Javanese Usage, Sasak Usage, Sundanese Usage (keeping in mind that Aksara Sunda Baku exists), Madurese Usage, Osing Usage, etc.
Maybe add a section about calligraphy?
Use this too http://std.dkuug.dk/jtc1/sc2/wg2/docs/n3319.pdf.

(talk) 03:33, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for the input. However I would like to add several things:

splitting additional aksara into ganten and others would make each section terribly short. So I think its better to categorize them in one section. But idk, that section is the most confusing for me to write.
the rekan letters in omniglot is possible, but not widely attested. I'll add a passage explaining that other combinations are possible, but the current nine is the most common
long sandhangan are no longer used in contemporary orthography. As such, it is more appropriate to be used in sanskrit usage.
based on the sinhala script article (which is a good article), the language should be mentioned. And mentioning sanskrit would ease explanations regarding original pronunciation.
wignyan actually can be used medial positition. Only in sanskrit usage (again) that medial use is prohibited.
what would you propose to write in the sundanese usage etc? Many resources that I have only mentioned this briefly and do not go into much detail.

Other than that, your comments is very useful. Thanks again Alteaven (talk) 05:04, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the response.

I think perhaps that instead of making the ganten and the others separate categories, just make separate tables within the category for them.
Adding the passage about the rekan sounds great. Also, if you could identify which form of Chinese (Hokkien, Cantonese, etc.) the rekan in omniglot refer to, that would be helpful.
You're right, it is better to leave the long sandhangan out.
I had no idea about the wignyan. I'm learning new things every day.
If you feel you have anything adequate to write about for sundanese, then do so, otherwise just leave it.

Once you've made all your changes, let me know, and I'll do a spelling and grammer check over the whole thing, and then you can nominate it for a good article. :) Smettems (talk) 05:48, 17 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]