Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User Page Help/Archive 1

This miscellaneous page was nominated for deletion on June 17 2006. The result of the discussion was Keep, early close. Nomination withdrawn. An archived record of this discussion can be found here.

A better suggestion

Instead of all this wasted effort on prettifying user pages, why don't you instead help other people edit the encyclopedia? Surely we need good looking articles far more than we need good looking user pages.

Seriously, this project is a useless diversion of resources. If you want to use the Internet to express yourself, try MySpace or LiveJournal, or purchase your own webhosting. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a web hosting service or a creative design outlet. Kelly Martin (talk) 23:26, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

There where many good editors on this project trying to help new users? To delete this page is to say that we do not need user pages, because all we were trying to do was help. Thetruthbelow 23:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

With all due respect, don't you think it's more useful to help new users with editing issues than helping them create fancy user pages? It's not a question of not needing user pages, it's a question of not encouraging new users to waste a bunch of time on fancy ones. Rx StrangeLove 23:48, 16 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Even "simple" things like making a good looking table can be challenging to those unaccustomed to wiki markup, html, or coding. I'd rather have new users learning on their userpage than in article space. (I'm not going to be a member of this project - I'm not qualified.) I also think, having previously read the deletion review, that WP:AGF is called for and not adequately being followed in regards to this project. GRBerry 01:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know where assuming good faith enters into it, I don't see anyone not doing that. This isn't about teaching markup for use in editing articles and doesn't say a word about it....if it were there's plenty of places to get help in that area as well as personal sandboxes they can use. This is about focusing on making userpages, there's nothing on the project page that says anything about coding help for articles. Rx StrangeLove 02:26, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Request to join

I would automatically add myself, but I'm not much of a designer. If anyone needs me for anything, I'll join. :) — Nathan ^(talk) 09:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My objections

The page is currently going through MfD, and although I don't think the general idea is bad, I strongly object to the emphasis on being able to request that someone designs for your userpage for you. I'm happy with those that answer requests on their own (Sango123 et al), but having a central requests page, as well as the other references around the WikiProject, will create a sense of entitlement for someone to come along and give you a pretty userpage. Apart from the time-wasting issue, it would remove the personal aspect of the userpage if the user didn't involve himself in the design and execution - and, of course, it removes the defence that this page could help users learn markup.

I will change my vote to keep if by the end of this MfD:

The 'Design Requests' and 'Design Assignments' pages are removed.
The 'Designers' page is changed to 'Participants', without the suggestion that all the participants are supposed to actively design people's userpages for them. The text of the page should be rewritten accordingly. The project should also be open to all, regardless of ability. You don't need any qualifications to answer questions at the Help Desk or Reference Desk, anyone can become a Mediation Cabbalist or Advocate, so there's no need for this to be special.
Basically, the 'DIY Advice' section should be the emphasis of the Wikiproject. So move the 'Questions' sub-section to its own section, keeping the rest as 'Tutorials'. That gives three sections - a list of participants, centralised tutorials, and a place where people can ask for ideas or advice. If people do ask for advice, there's no reason why a participant shouldn't do some of the work for them if they want, but the point is you won't get new editors with 100 edits saying 'please create my userpage from scratch with lots of userboxes saying that I think Bush is stupid and emos suck' and getting unhappy if they're refused.

As not all my changes are a matter of moving things around, I'll be happy to do them myself if I receive support. If those changes are put through and stick I'll gladly change my opinion at the MfD and sign myself up. I know the MfD may result in a keep with or without my support, but I believe that my suggestions would improve the focus of the project anyway and should be considered. I think that if the participants give out the right advice, we could focus people on how a userpage should look, and undo some of the damage caused by Wikipedia:Userboxes. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 10:29, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

That is all very good advice, and I will discuss it with the other founders. Thank you, Thetruthbelow 21:41, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Changes

Changes have been made. Thetruthbelow 22:30, 17 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I might have a go at making some edits of my own later, as I think some of the text could be improved, but right now it's way too late. I have changed my opinion in the MfD. You might want to drop User:Johnleemk a note as well, as he said "Conditional Delete as per Sam Blanning" so it could be worth asking him if his opinion has changed. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 02:38, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Currently, we are expanding the DIY section and making it a big part of the project. --GeorgeMoney ^T·C 03:42, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

This is good. I might actually be able to declutter my userpage. :p Johnleemk | Talk 08:25, 18 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Templates

Should we provide templates and example userpages for the DIY section? Or will that be doing the work for them? --GeorgeMoney ^T·C 04:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

How about a gallery of screen shots of real user pagers and then you could link to that version in the history, so people can check out the wiki-mark-up for different features? David D. (Talk) 05:19, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

David, that is a great idea. I actually have to leave for a while and actually can't do it myself, but hopefully another member will. Thetruthbelow 05:20, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Three suggestions

I think /Suggestions is a bit unnecessary at the moment. Until this talk page starts getting cluttered, there's no need to split anything off. My idea is to redirect that page here, change the link on the main page to link to here, and put a header at the top of this page explaining what this page is for - i.e. talking about the WikiProject, while linking to the places to ask for help with designing userpages. I'll go ahead and do it in a while if I don't get any strong objections.

Secondly, we've got some great articles on formatting, but little on content so far. I think some advice in this area could be useful, and I'll try to write something later. I think if it went in a separate section from 'DIY advice', it would be a sensible split - perhaps rename the current 'DIY advice' to 'Formatting advice' or similar, and name the new section 'Content advice'.

Lastly, /Help Requests still reflects the 'decorators for hire' nature which (I hope) we've agreed to move away from. I think a 'Q & A' board, similar in format to the Wikipedia:Help desk, would be more appropriate, so everyone could get involved with requests. I suggest adding an 'inactive, preserved for historical interest' header to Help Requests in order to preserve the two requests that were completed, and creating a new page in its place. If users want help from individual users, the participants page would be the perfect place for that. Again, if no-one strongly objects to this idea I'll go ahead and do it. --Sam Blanning^(talk) 10:22, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Support. Also, I think I fixed the example page for the title header to show the links. why don't you go see if it looks better. --GeorgeMoney ^T·C 18:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

My Idea I think that we should replace the suggestions thing with a Q&A board. However, I would like to still keep the Help requests section of the project. This section allows you to become more involved with helping the user, and I don't think that this project should become just a gathering place of data. We should have that data, but we should also have people that are willing to help you personally with that data. Thetruthbelow 19:01, 19 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]