Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive144

Estlandia

Estlandia (formerly Miacek) is topic-banned from everything related to Poland and is also banned from interacting with MyMoloboaccount.  Sandstein  14:03, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. User who is submitting this request for enforcement MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:40, 25 December 2013 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Estlandia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy to be enforced Please note that this is a list taking into account previous remedy in a case Estlandia Arbitration case which ended with result Estlandia(formerly editing as Miacek) and Volunteer Marek are warned(...I am closing this with a formal warning to Estlandia, as required per WP:AC/DS#Warnings (which does not exempt users previously sanctioned) as a prerequisite for future sanctions...). Sandstein 07:33, 4 May 2013 (UTC)] Please refer to this AE request for details.Notably, you must not make personal attacks on others under any circumstances.Sandstein 07:36, 4 May 2013 (UTC) Logged into Eastern European sanctions after warning(talk · contribs) (formerly Miacek) warned because of personal attacks per AE request. Sandstein 07:38, 4 May 2013 (UTC) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eastern_Europe#Log_of_blocks_and_bans "Articles which relate to Eastern Europe, broadly interpreted, are placed under discretionary sanctions. Any uninvolved administrator may levy restrictions as an arbitration enforcement action on users editing in this topic area, after an initial warning." Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it stop whitewashing! 26th October Calling edits by other user whitewashing. taking an english course instead of wasting your time on edit warring might be an idea to consider, too 17 December Saying to other user that he should be "Taking english course" instead of editing is of course a clear personal attack. Please stop whitewashing Polish far-right, As you chose to remove reliably sourced stuff without even offering ANYTHING in return, this can be seen as whitewashing obnoxious political movements and supporting homophobia 17th December Accusing during content dispute other user of whitewashing Polish far right and suggesting that he supports homophobia no one cares what you think it officially is. sources have been provided, you are not allowed to remove them! 23rd December Instead of rationally debating the topic, this edit summary consists of personal attack "no one cares what you think", "you are not allowed to remove them!" are obviously directed personally against another user and aggressive. get lost 23rd December Stating "get lost" in edit summary in regards to other user is a clear case of personal attack. But it's hopeless to explain it to primitive obdurate anti-German fanatics like you 24th December Naming other user "primitive" "anti-German" and fanatic and so on, again a clear case of personal attack. As this was done in regards to comment about use of German nationalist author for history of Poland it would again fall also under Eastern Europe sanctions. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warning: Warned on 4 May 2013 (UTC) by Sandstein (talk · contribs) Requests by other users to stop personal attacks, after they happened after the warning 27th October request by Dougweller (talk · contribs) to stop personal attack. Request by me to remain civil and not use personal attackson 1st November 2013 Asked to remain civil and polite on 23rd December by Darwinek (talk · contribs) Additional comments by editor filing complaint User Estlandia has been previously warned not use personal attacks against others in May 2013 and was logged into list of users warned per discretionary sanctions. Unfortunately he continued to use personal attacks and despite my request earlier and by others continues to do so. While I understand that everyone can have different views, I sincerely believe debates should be undertaken in civil manner. As the user was previously warned that the he should cease all personal attacks against others, logged in discretionary sanctions and others have at least three times asked him after this to stop personal attacks, I believe requesting enforcement in view of the above is justified. Based on the above diff's it is clear that he is not following the warning given to him earlier this year to cease personal attacks. Proposed remedy:a short block with further warning to cease personal attacks. In light of recent 36 hour block for edit warning, perhaps 48 hours. It could be then extended in case further personal attacks happen.But this is just a suggestion. Also as these kind of procedures aren't that well known to me, I might have written down some things incorrectly.For example I am not sure if the requests to remain polite and civil should be in the section they are right now.Feel free to correct me. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 00:44, 25 December 2013 (UTC) Unfortunately the below comment by Estlandia, shows that is unwilling to drop personal attacks. The link below is to some bizarre personal attack against me by anon editor combining posts all over the net(not even from Wikipedia) from various users(and posted 5 years ago in 2008!) falsely alleging that I am that person behind all these people from various places on the net, alongside insulting remarks about me. I am afraid that even here Estlandia can't restrain himself from directing accusations and remarks against others or repeating them. The second link just links to my edit on well known nationalist thinker from 19th century who supported racism(and stated things like But now that the Aryans have become accustomed to the idiosyncrasies of' finance, the Jews are no longer necessary. The international Jew, hidden in tile mask of different nationalities, is a disintegrating influence, and can hardly be justification of any personal attack against me. If Estlandia believes that editing articles about such figure is anti-German and people doing so are fanatics,that justifies personal attacks, that indicates severe POV. If Estlandia believes my or any other user editing history is wrong, he should bring it to dispute resolution or other appropriate channels, instead of using insults and personal attacks. I can't see any explanation of actions by Estlandia below, just an attempt to deflect this situation by attacking the person who brought up his violation of warning against personal attacks. --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 14:08, 25 December 2013 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified [1] Discussion concerning Estlandia Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by Estlandia First thing: Darwinek's warning [2] that Molobo listed here concerned a comment on the subject of the article not any users here, as I explained, so it is clearly wrong to bring this up as evidence against me. Also calling Molobo's editing 'anti-German fanaticism' is - in the light of his whole editing history and recent edits like this - not a personal assault but a truthful characterization of the lamentable situtation. More to come. --Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 12:47, 25 December 2013 (UTC) RE: Sandstein - if we are not any more dealing with civility issues but with the more general question 'who's being disruptive in which topic' I suggest you consider Molobo's conduct on German related topics, too. Nothing but hate mongering [3], POV [4] and disruption ([5], [6] - note the persistent use of inflammatory language (local Germans as 'colonists') despite being told this is not NPOV), as evident from third party reactions [7]. Was this user's edit summary ('nonsense') also an evil personal assault against Molobo? Has Molobo ever had one good word to write about Germans? This all contrasts with small-scale but constructive editing I perform on Polish topics [8], [9], [10]. If you admins find it unnecessary to consider here, I'll need to open a specific request to that effect. Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:47, 27 December 2013 (UTC) RE: Secret Considering Eslandia continued disruption to Polish related topics, including three different edit warring blocks in three different years - First, only the last one of those blocks had anything to do with Poland. Second, the other editor was blocked, too. Third, any user with even superficial knowledge of WP policies would understand that removing OR is not 'disruption', adding it is. Who is being disruptive here, the one who keeps adding patent OR [11] or the one who is removing it? Pan Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 11:47, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by Trust Is All You Need He is rude, has insulted me on several occasions, and has this view that if you don't agree with him, you're biased, or you're pushing POV onto to WP. Any editor who opposes Estlandia edits, is referred to a POV pusher, wrong and biased. This user insults everytime he has the chance. Thirdly, and lastly, (and this is the worst bit) this user thinks he's always right, and because of that he seems to believe that he has a right to act badly towards other editors. --TIAYN (talk) 17:07, 26 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by (username) Result concerning Estlandia This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. The request has merit. Taking into consideration that I warned Estlandia (formerly Miacek) against similar conduct in May 2013, that comments such as "primitive obdurate anti-German fanatics like you" are personal attacks that are unacceptable under any and all circumstances, that Estlandia's statement (which inadmissibly attempts to justify such remarks) indicates that they still do not understand this, and that Estlandia has a block log of topic-related misconduct going back to 2009 and was most recently blocked a few days ago for topic-related edit-warring, I believe that a topic ban from everything related to Poland is indicated, to begin with for six months. I am inviting Trust Is All You Need to back up their accusations with diffs or to retract them, because Wikipedians are not allowed to accuse others of serious misconduct without evidence (see WP:ASPERSIONS).  Sandstein  23:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC) I totally agree with Sandstein here while ignoring Trust is All You Need extremely broad statement. Considering Eslandia continued disruption to Polish related topics, including three different edit warring blocks in three different years, it seems like he is guilty of Wikipedia:Gaming_the_system#Gaming_sanctions_for_disruptive_behavior. As a result it falls under the previous ArbCom case on Eastern Europe and a topic ban of minimum six months is warrantied, with a further warning concerning his civility, which might escalate to a block if Eslandia continues to act this way. Secret account 01:06, 27 December 2013 (UTC) After considering Estlandia's additional statement, the accusations leveled in it by Estlandia against MyMoloboaccount appear unfounded. The first reported diff, [12], dates from 2011 and is not "hate-mongering", but an on-topic contribution to the article talk page referencing a reliable source. The other reported diffs seem to reflect content disagreements and are at least not obviously objectionable from a conduct point of view, whatever their merits from a content point of view may be. I'm implementing the topic ban at once to prevent further statements of this sort, which continue the personal attacks reported here by using terms such as "hate mongering". In view of these continuing attacks, I am making the topic ban indefinite and am also combining the topic ban with an unilateral interaction ban regarding MyMoloboaccount. I am ready to hear an appeal against these sanctions after six months of problem-free editing by Estlandia.  Sandstein  14:00, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

MilesMoney

Wrong forum, please use WP:AN or WP:ANI.  Sandstein  20:28, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Request concerning MilesMoney User who is submitting this request for enforcement Darkness Shines (talk) 19:57, 27 December 2013 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested MilesMoney (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy to be enforced Talk:Austrian economics/General sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it [13] Edit warring. again [14] Calls an editor a liar [15] Accusations of stalking [16] Accusations of outing Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warned on First guy sanctioned under these community imposed restrictions. Additional comments by editor filing complaint No, it can be dealt with here. Darkness Shines (talk) 20:09, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Discussion concerning MilesMoney Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks. Statement by MilesMoney Darkness Shines is unhappy because I reverted (once) his attempt to archive an active discussion.[17] In the archive comment, he called us a "shower of cunts" and told us to "grow up". I asked him to self-revert and he insulted me some more. This is a violation of WP:NPA. I could respond to the diffs, but the fact is that none of them involve Austrian Economics in any way, and all of them are issues that are already being handled (or have been handled) elsewhere. This is therefore the wrong forum and this report appears to be a waste of time. I recommend trouting Darkness Shines (or worse) for both his vulgarity and for wasting everyone's time here. MilesMoney (talk) 20:13, 27 December 2013 (UTC) This is the wrong place, and there's nothing to be dealt with except for your anger management issues. MilesMoney (talk) 20:14, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by MrX Umm, I think this was a community imposed sanction, so enforcement requests should be posted to WP:AN.- MrX Please post in your own sections. DS, please read the banner at the top of this page: Arbitration Enforcement is not the place for anything other than enforcement of a closed Arbitration Committee ruling. It is not for:... Community or administrator decisions, breach of these should be raised at the administrators' incident noticeboard or in exceptional cases, cited as evidence in a request for arbitration. Statement by S. Rich With regard to the OUTING (#4), please see the following section on my talk page: User talk:Srich32977#Your recent edits to ANI. To recap, a comment on the ANI by MilesMoney included an IP address. I replied to the IP, who appeared to be Miles based on Miles' previous talk page history. Miles came back to the ANI and signed the comment, plus changed the comment I posted to the IP. These changes have been suppressed and I have apologized to Miles for my transgression. – S. Rich (talk) 20:17, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Right, I wasn't nuts to accuse you of outing, but as you say, the issue has been dealt with. Moreover, it never had anything at all to do with Austrian Economics. I'm sorry you were dragged into this. MilesMoney (talk) 20:19, 27 December 2013 (UTC) Result concerning MilesMoney This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. I am closing this section because, as MrX points out, this forum is the wrong venue in which to seek the enforcement of community sanctions. This board is for enforcing arbitral decisions only. I recommend making such requests in an administrators' noticeboard.  Sandstein  20:28, 27 December 2013 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Cihsai

Cihsai's appeal is denied. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 16:01, 28 December 2013 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found here. According to the procedures, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED). Appealing user Cihsai (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) – Cihsai (talk) 21:16, 18 December 2013 (UTC) Sanction being appealed Topic ban from the subject of Armenia and Azerbaijan, imposed at here, logged at Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 logs Administrator imposing the sanction EdJohnston (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) Notification of that administrator Notification Diff Statement by Cihsai The reason for the ban is: “You’ve once again reverted the lead of Hemshin peoples to remove mention of possible Armenian descent, without ever achieving consensus for your views,” Background: Back in 2007- 2008 lengthy discussions took place addressing, among others, the issue of alleged “Armenian roots”. Not only the wording but also its location within the article has been dealt with. The lead paragraph as well as the sections dealing with the history and demographics have undergone numerous changes. That discussion and editing came to a halt by end of 2008 and a fully referenced- and somehow lenghty- lead article became stable. In December 2009, a user Seth Nimbosa reorganized the article, shortening drastically the lead article (Diff). Nobody contested that edit and so that one became the stable version. In October 2012, JackalLantern introduced a sentence regarding alleged “Armenian roots” into the lead paragraph claiming he is “Restoring crucial and deliberately removed and suppressed sentence”. Looking back until 2008, I could not locate the sentence. That is to say that the claim of “restoration” does not stand. On the contrary JackalLantern has introduced a sentence into the lead paragraph without prior discussion. Reverts: Since then, the very same sentence has been removed from the lead paragraph by myself and reinserted back about a dozen times by JackalLantern and MarshallBagramyan, sometimes within hours after my action. They were very recently joined by a third user yerevantsi. During the "revert period", I have: steadily invited JackalLantern and MarshallBagramyan to study the prior discussion on this issue. If that would have happened those users would have seen that there are arguments why the claim regarding “Armenian roots” does not belong to the lead paragraph, encouraged them to study the article (and not only the lead paragraph). If that would have happened those users would understand that such a statement in the lead would not be in harmony with the rest of the article. (if not convinced) requested those users to at least discuss the sentence they wish to insert prior to the insertion All the response I got was in my opinion commonplaces, such as “denying or attempting to obscure their Armenian provenance” ,“No serious scholar questions this basic fact about the Hamshens”, “Turkish nationalist propagandists “. Relevant diffs in chronological order: [18],[19],[20],[21],[22],[23],[24],[25],[26],[27],[28],[29],[30],[31],[32],[33],[34],[35]. Admin Involvement: Messages of the banning Administrator to me in my and his talk pages indicates that he has not noticed : My explanations and requests for discussion in the edit summaries. That the “reference” of the sentence in question is used on numerous places in the body of the article.Hence it is not removed. That I have not claimed that there is consensus to “remove” but on the contrary requested discussion before changing longstanding stable lead. Conclusions: Due to above the “Ban” is not fair. It deprives me of using Wikipedia rules to influence the Article I am interested in. Also, Hemshin has no relation to Azerbaijan. This article is presumably considered under the rules of WP:ARBAA2 due to the mere fact that the users inserting the controversial sentence are involved therein. RESPONSES TO OPINIONS “UNINVOLVED EDITORS” It seems I am considered to start and continue an “edit war” and have not attempted any discussion. Facts are: The insertion into the lead was done by a user in his first appearance ever in the article without any discussion and with a factually false statement in edit summary. Following my revert the very same sentence has been reinserted on and on and on by the same user and by two other joining users. And again, the joining users have also not engaged in discussion and are either first time on the article or first time since long. I have repeatedly requested those users to discuss before insisting on the insertion to no avail. The info I present here is detailed in the diffs in my first statement above. Here,I wish to quote from Wikipedia Guidelines : ...but after a reversion of a bold edit, you might want to be bold in an edit on the talk pages so as not to start an edit war... [36] ...Leave the article in the condition it was in before the Bold edit was made (often called the status quo ante). When the discussion has achieved mutual understanding, attempt a new edit that will be acceptable to all participants in the discussion. ...[37] In conclusion I feel the party to be criticsed is not me. It seems I am criticized of being a “single purpose account It is true that I use Wikipedia actually to learn and not to edit. This article caught my interest because it concerns my home region in Turkey. I interfere whenever I see a necessity. I do not interfere with all edits in this article. I am not trying to push any opinion. It seems this article is considered unquestionably to be under the relevant Arbitration rules. It is not up to me to build an opinion on that point .The counterparts in the given issue are obviously very active editors and obviously share the single and intense interest namely “Armenians”. Therefore I wonder what article is left out from those rules, once one or more of the Armenian interested users decide to be active on that article.Cihsai (talk) 00:38, 26 December 2013 (UTC) RESPONSE TO OPINION “INVOLVED EDITOR" User:EatsShootsAndLeaves has not been involved in the relevant article or with me. I guess his involvement is yielded from the “arbitration” to which I was not party. His indication to WP Bold is well on place but the addressee should not be me. Pls. see above Cihsai (talk) 00:52, 26 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by EdJohnston Cihsai (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) This saga began when MarshalBagramyan left a note on my talk: Hi Ed. Can you please take a look at editor Cihsai. Through the course of this year, he has edited no other article besides the Hemshin peoples and has made no other contribution to it beside removing/reverting a crucial part of the lead, which states that the Hemshin people are believed to have an Armenian origin and which is well sourced. He has carried out the same edit time and time again and has obliquely referred to a "discussion on the talk page", which he has never bothered to make a contribution. I, along with other editors, have reverted such disruptive edits but he persists in making the reverts. I think some sort of action is necessary here and I'd appreciate any help in dealing with this matter. Thanks.--Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 18:43, 6 November 2013 (UTC) By checking the article, I verified that Cihsai had been reverting the Hemshin peoples article with no discussion, altogether about 12 times since December 2012. Here is the note I left for User:Cihsai on 6 November. This message was hoping to persuade him to engage in discussion about the possible Armenian origin of the Hemshin peoples before reverting again: Hello Cihsai. Please see User talk:EdJohnston#Editor Cihsai. You may respond there if you wish. It appears that you have been constantly reverting a mention of Armenians from the lead of this article, for example here. If you have a reason for doing this, one would expect you to present it on the article's talk page. There are no posts by you on the talk page since 2008. The background for this issue is the WP:ARBAA2 arbitration case, which I can explain if you are curious. If you don't choose to respond, you'll probably be getting a formal warning under that case. Trying to force your point of view into the article by reverting is unlikely to work in any article that is subject to arbitration. You need to have reasons and you need to persuade the other editors. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 19:44, 6 November 2013 (UTC) Cihsai made a response to my notice which I didn't find convincing. After issuing an ARBAA2 warning, I offered these further suggestions: You have not participated at Talk:Hemshin since 2008. Yet here you are on 6 November 2013 in this diff where you remove a claim about Armenian origin at the same time as you remove the reference which was intended to support it. If you don't believe that Simonian's book on the Hemshin is a good reference for the claim of Armenian origin, you could try asking for an opinion at WP:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. In the past year you have reverted the lead 12 times. This looks to be a case of long-term edit warring. If anyone agreed with you, you would not be the only one removing this material. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 00:47, 11 November 2013 (UTC) After this exchange, Cihsai did leave a comment on talk on 14 November, but he did not wait to persuade the other editors on the talk page. He just went ahead and reverted the lead again on 24 November, 2013. At that point I decided to topic ban him from WP:ARBAA2. EdJohnston (talk) 23:24, 18 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by uninvolved User:EatsShootsAndLeaves This is unfortunately a no-brainer. Edit-warring is not permitted anywhere on this project - and this seems to be the major point the appellant is forgetting. You may add or remove something once, as per WP:BOLD. When it's reverted, you may never EVER re-remove or re-add it until you have WP:CONSENSUS to do so. It really doesn't matter the nature or topic area of the article in this case - it's simple process. The fact that virtually identical changes were made again and again and again shows that this basic law of Wikipedia means little to them. As such, I'm not horrified that they're unable to edit their favourite set of topics. It's not a topic ban that's preventing you from enjoying Wikipedia: it's YOUR OWN ACTIONS that are preventing you from enjoying Wikipedia. As I see no sign of acknowledging that their behaviour was inappropriate on any article, they have shown no positive route forward, and indeed have not show proof of positive/non-problematic behaviour in other areas of the project, there's no grounds whatsoever put forward that could lead to a removal of the topic ban ES&L 16:49, 24 December 2013 (UTC) @User:Cihsai: the fact that you cannot see how the above applies to you is the scariest part of this entire thing. WP:BRD is not WP:BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRD for a reason. Your change was not accepted by consensus yet, and as such, your change is not acceptable and you have to stop trying to force it. ES&L 15:42, 26 December 2013 (UTC) Statement by (involved editor 2) Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Cihsai Cihsai, please notify all of the editors you have mentioned by name of this appeal for their comments, and I ask that those comments be brief and on point.--Tznkai (talk) 21:22, 18 December 2013 (UTC) Their contributions show that Cihsai is a single-purpose account dedicated to promoting a particular point of view about the Hemshin peoples through edit-warring. That is quite sufficient basis for discretionary sanctions (see in particular WP:EW and Wikipedia:ARBAB#Single purpose accounts). The article is within the topic area for which WP:ARBAA2#Standard discretionary sanctions authorizes discretionary sanctions, because the text Cihsai wants to remove concerns the possible Armenian origin of the Hemshin peoples. Although I might have scoped the ban to concern the Hemshin peoples only, its broader scope makes no practical difference because Cihsai has not edited about anything else. For these reasons, I would decline the appeal, but recommend that future sanctions are not explained in such a way that one might think that they were also made because of the content of the problematic edits, which would have been inadmissible under most circumstances.  Sandstein  23:40, 18 December 2013 (UTC) I agree with Sandstein. Cihsai appears to do almost nothing other than revert the same edit on the same page, with no serious attempt to resolve the edit war through discussion. This wouldn't be acceptable conduct in any topic area; that the conduct was in an area where tempers are already frayed and is thus under sanctions is clearly an aggravating factor. I believe the appeal should be dismissed and the topic ban upheld. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 15:37, 20 December 2013 (UTC) At this point I do not see grounds for an appeal, but I want to wait a reasonable period for Cihsai to notify other editors and make any other statements. Since this is an appeal, the only thing harmed by our taking more time is Chihsai.--Tznkai (talk) 17:25, 20 December 2013 (UTC) Agreed that this seems to be an appeal with very little chance of success. No attempts to discuss, SPA? The topic ban was the right step here. SirFozzie (talk) 18:26, 20 December 2013 (UTC) My view (partially taken from my statement on the talk page of the article in question): There has been extensive and detailed discussion (in which I was heavily involved) about the article on its entirety starting 2007. The origin theories (about which the sentence consistently inserted by the involved editors make a bold statement) were covered in detail during these discussions. A stable version has been achieved end of 2008, The lead has been stable since then, except for a summary effort by user Seth on Dec. 1, 2009, which has not changed the main idea of the paragraph. No major changes since then until recent insertions of JackalLantern . To my understanding, it is up to the inserting users to seek consensus in editing stable version in case there is opposition, instead of Cihsai. I observe that the inserting users never responded to the calls for discussion by Cihsai. As a side note: I looked up the reference provided for the insertion, and observed that it does not include or indicate the inserted statement. Omer182 (talk) 15:47, 26 December 2013 (UTC) Result of the appeal by Cihsai This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above. Hold while Cihsai contacts editors who may wish to say something concerning this request.--Tznkai (talk) 04:35, 24 December 2013 (UTC) I do not see any grounds or support to overturn, lessen, or modify the restrictions placed on Cihsai by EdJohnson so I must deny the appeal at this time. I would be open to reconsidering in several months if Chisai demonstrates knowledge and adherence of the appropriate norms. I do want to note there is a a possible language barrier issue here, and urge any and all users to use a soft touch. Chisai may find it easier to edit a less controversial area in the meantime.--Tznkai (talk) 16:58, 26 December 2013 (UTC)