Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kojo (programming language)

Kojo (programming language)

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Lacks reliable independent secondary sources to establish notability as required by WP:GNG. Sources offered are all primary. I was unable to find any suitable sources by Googling. It's possible the subject may become notable in the future, but Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Msnicki (talk) 13:43, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The author of Kojo here. Kojo is a promising open-source learning environment for children that is used worldwide. I have some links on this page: http://wiki.kogics.net/kojo-world - which might help to establish notabilty. Also, please note that people I did not know added Kojo information to Wikipedia in the first place - in the two articles where this information exists: the Kojo article itself, and the Educational programming languages article. That might itself be considered an argument in favor of notability! (The Kojo article is currently out of date. If it remains on Wikipedia, I'll update it) Lalit.ash.pant (talk) 04:25, 22 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Computing-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:59, 18 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Mediran (t • c) 00:37, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge/Delete - As far as i can tell this programming language is an offshoot from Scala (programming language). Because it is obviously not yet noteable enough to have its own page it could be merged with the page for Scala which seems to be more built up and is not being disputed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eatmark (talk • contribs) 03:00, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just to clarify, Kojo is not a programming language itself. It's a (computer programming based) learning environment for children, in the form of a software application, that uses the Scala Language. So maybe the Kojo article needs to be called Kojo_(software). Lalit.ash.pant (talk) 17:56, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

At AfD, the only issue we consider is WP:NOTABILITY, which has a more technical meaning here than in ordinary conversation. Here, it's not enough that something seems noteworthy but that multiple WP:RELIABLE WP:INDEPENDENT WP:SECONDARY sources have actually taken note. Each of those words is significant. Different editors will interpret the guidelines differently but my rule of thumb to establish notability is on the order of a couple 1000-word articles in established publications. Often, the difference between seems notable and sources have taken note is just a matter of time. If the sources aren't there now because the subject is quite new, perhaps they will be in a month or so. That's exactly what happened recently with Julia. Msnicki (talk) 18:21, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Merge or Delete I looked for secondary sources and found a few. the Odersky news piece mentioned in the article is only semi-independent, being coauthored by the creator of Kojo. The software has made it onto lists of Best Free Ways to Learn Programming and of Learning Scala; these are independent, and the second looks reliable, but neither is in-depth. My impression is that this software is up and coming and could easily become notable in time, like the Scratch (programming language). But right now, it is WP:TOOSOON, there just hasn't been enough time for the press and/or academics to make note of it. Regretfully, the article cannot stand. I recommend either merging a summary to Educational programming languages or deletion with no prejudice to recreation when multiple reliable sources become available. Sorry, --Mark viking (talk) 19:05, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep or per WP:PAGEDECIDE, coverage at ReadWrite and techsupportalert and scala-lang.org show notability. Diego (talk) 21:44, 25 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]