Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Soap Operas/Archive 8

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Remaining infobox changes

Hi - I've listed the second half of proposed changes, I believe they have all reached consensus but please weigh in if you think they haven't - here is the link to the template discussion. Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:53, 13 December 2012 (UTC)

Infobox for couples

I'm not sure if this is at all possible, but...There are almost 40 articles are soap opera super-couples, but none have an info box for the couple. Almost every other soap-related article has some form of info box template, except for the couple pages. Would it be at all possible to create a new inforbox template for couples? It would of course be similar to the template for characters, but with some changes, including the removal of parameters that obviously don't apply to two people. Thoughts?Caringtype1 (talk) 00:31, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

I think this would be a good idea. Bruno and Luisa di Marco is a good example - it currently uses the second general character template. I don't know of other types of infobox we already have other than the general character ones and the soap opera one, but I'd also like to see one for storylines (I've seen several storyline articles that have no infobox, e.g Who Killed Archie?) and I also did a family one for EastEnders, Template:Infobox EastEnders family, which I've just made some changes to so it could be used for other soaps. I think it's better than Template:Infobox television family. I can move it so it's called Template:Infobox soap opera family. It uses a sub-template Template:Infobox EastEnders family/member so that family members can have entries. I created it for one article, Ferreira family, where the family members don't have separate pages or individual sections in the article (one reason I did it for EastEnders only - the other being that at the time, we had loads of character templates for individual soaps, so I copied those!). So thoughts on that and a storyline inbobox would also be appreciated, as well as one for soap couples. –anemoneprojectors– 12:44, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

A storyline infobox is something that I'd like to see too. - JuneGloom Talk 17:13, 23 December 2012 (UTC)

Talk:Susan Delfino#WP:COMMONNAME

Hello, everyone. Your input in the above linked discussion would be appreciated by me. Over the years, this article (yes, it is about a soap opera character; it's about a nighttime soap opera character) has been moved from its common name, and I'm certain that the latest move still violates the WP:COMMONNAME policy. Flyer22 (talk) 00:42, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Duration formatting in infobox

Hello - I've noticed some back and forth with formatting of duration and am not sure myself how we like to do this... When characters appear briefly in a year (i.e. someone had individual guest stints in 2001, 2002, and 2003 but was not on continuously during that time) are they listed separately, or together (2001–03)? A few examples:

• Carly Corinthos - there was a brief period (a month or maybe a few? can't remember) in between actress changes in 2005 where the character was offscreen.
• Kristina Davis - child actress last appeared August 2008 and SORAS'd actress first appeared in May 2009, left in Nov. 2011 and replacement started in May 2012.
• Robin Scorpio - on contract 85-96, individual guest appearances in 97, 98, 99, 2000, 2001 (on a different series), 2004, and then back on contract 2005-12, left and came back on a recurring status later this year.

Thoughts? Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:26, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Yeah, I'm glad you brought this up, it definitely needs to be discussed. I think very individual appearance should be listed separately. If the character made separate guest stints in 2001, 2002, 2003, it should be listed as such. For the Carly Corinthos article, I don't think the in-between actor period is a notable enough time period to be listed separately(another example would be Maxie Jones). For Kristina Davis and Robin Scorpio, the separations are very necessary to describe the period that the character appeared.Caringtype1 (talk) 01:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

You have brought up the most controversial subject ever agreed upon. This has already been discussed and solved. Basically if the character appears every year then you list it as such. Not 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003... but 2000-03. This happens to be one of the things I have resisted doing, but in reality it makes sense. But if a character is not present for more than a calender month, then you can split. Sometimes it just feels wrong though. Look at Amira Masood for an example. She was off-screen for longer than 12 months, but because it was not a calender year it would have made it seem like she appeared continously. An exception was made for her though. There are so many reasons for and against ... this could go on for weeks. I still do not know what is for the best.Rain the 1 02:19, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Haha, I should have taken a look through the archives first. I agree with both of you. I think we can make general statements but in some cases it just depends. Thanks! Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 05:35, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

One more thing about this I forgot to ask - what about separating durations for appearances on different series? I've seen some back and forth on that lately too. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 02:04, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

I have been wondering that too, and I really think duration should be listed separately for each series. It just makes it so much easier for the reader to understand.Caringtype1 (talk) 02:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC)

Not if they are sister soaps and they appeared on both shows as the same character in the same time period. Jester66 (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree, for example the ABC cross-overs a while back. But for characters that did extensive stints I think it's a little confusing. Specifically the edit warring with the OLTL characters that went to GH, we should make a decision on that. If anything, if an editor is removing durations they should move the information to the casting section so it is not lost. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 22:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

My take on this, is that if the appearances occurred consecutively, like a few guest appearances each year, the duration should be continuous. For example, with Cord Roberts of One Life to Live, this is what the series's cast list has for his duration; "1986–1992, 1993–1997, 2004, 2007, 2008, 2011." Instead, I would rewrite the duration this way, "1986–97, 2004, 2007–08, 2011."--Nk3play2 ^{my buzz} 04:42, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

But that is misleading to the reader. We are saying that the appeared straight through from one year to another (example:2001-03, instead of 2001, 2002, 2003), which is completely false.Caringtype1 (talk) 21:03, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree.. Jester66 (talk) 21:51, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Nk3play2. We wouldn't be saying that a character appeared continuously from 2001 to 2003, but by stating 2001-03, we are saying they appeared in every year from 2001 and 2003. –anemoneprojectors– 22:02, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

This seems to make sense, as long as it's described appropriately in the casting section. I also liked Rain's explanation of exceptions when they are off screen for more than twelve months, i.e. if they appeared in January 2001 and not again until December 2002 you wouldn't put 2001-02. Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 22:08, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

This is something editors of EastEnders articles discussed a while back, and we came to the conclusion that if the break was for less than one calendar year (rather than 365 days), we'd combine them, so even if it was a break from January 2001 to December 2002, we'd still combine them. But lots of people didn't like that, especially when it was one-off guest returns such as Sonia Fowler. But personally I still think they should be combined! –anemoneprojectors– 22:18, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

To me, combining them makes absolutely no sense. It is just confusing and misleading. I don't see the problem with listing them separately. Caringtype1 (talk) 22:26, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

I do not find that aspect confusing. All it means is that they made an appearance in each of the years specified. But some people think it means they appeared non-stop. But listing 2001, 2002, 2003 could suggest they appeared throughout each of those years - when infact they may have only appeared in one episode each year. Either way this still has the same effect - only one is more concise. So I think shortening the duration is correct.Rain the 1 00:09, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Now, if that was the consensus, it is being used inconsistently. I thought the result of the previous discussion was that if a character appeared in consecutive years, they would be listed as such(ex. 2001-03), but that is not how it is used on pages such as Kristina Davis, Robin Scorpio, Maxie Jones, among others. Why are these pages exceptions, but others are not?Caringtype1 (talk) 22:14, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Did we decide on calendar year versus 365 days? I think calendar year? If so then yes we should change those in my opinion. A related question - what about duplicating the durations for the actor? Easiest way to explain is an example this revert at Anna Devane. Do the durations need to be listed after Finola assumed the role again in 2001? Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 01:11, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

For actors, I would suggest using a "first and last" format (as seen in Sam Mitchell (EastEnders) - her duration is 1990–93, 1995–96, 1999–2000 2002–05, 2009–10, but her actor durations are 1990–2000 (first actor), 2002–05 (second actor) and 2009–10 (first actor again)), since there's no need to duplicate the entire duration. –anemoneprojectors– 09:58, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Talk:Twin Peaks

I've created an RFC about creating two season pages of two-season television series. Join in. --George Ho (talk) 04:54, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Pamela Barnes

Pamela Barnes has been requested to be renamed, see talk:Pamela Barnes -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 06:51, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Jamie Ewing

The article Jamie Ewing has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N - no mention of notability, nonnotable secondary TV soap opera character

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 07:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Rebecca Barnes Wentworth (Dallas)

The article Rebecca Barnes Wentworth (Dallas) has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N - no mention of notability -- nonnotable secondary TV soap opera character

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 07:10, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Katherine Wentworth

The article Katherine Wentworth has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N nonnotable secondary TV soap opera character

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 09:27, 13 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Michelle Stevens

The article Michelle Stevens has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N - no mention of notability, completely in-universe; secondary character on a soap opera

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 12:20, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Cally Harper Ewing

The article Cally Harper Ewing has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N - no mention of notability; secondary character of a soap opera

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 12:28, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Mark Graison

The article Mark Graison has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern:

WP:N -- nonnotable secondary soap opera character

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing {{proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. 76.65.128.43 (talk) 12:36, 16 January 2013 (UTC)

Pregnancies/children

I think it's clutter to add "currently expecting" children to infoboxes, and inviting edit warring with all the different plot turns pregnancies take in soap operas. I think children should be added when actually born and named. Thoughts? Kelly Marie 0812 (talk) 00:00, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Dallas and user:Peteerh

Peteerh (talk · contribs) is converting redirects to the List of Dallas characters into articles without mention of notability, in a in-universe manner, and without much in the way of references. You may wish to examine these articles to see if they should be restored to being redirects, or can be fixed to show notability; and add real-world relevance/information. He's also adding miscarriages to the character infoboxes of existing articles. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 07:15, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Women's History Month is in March

Hi everyone at WikiProject Soap Operas!

Women's history month is around the corner, in March, and we're planning the second WikiWomen's History Month.

This event, which is organized by volunteers from the WikiWomen's Collaborative, supports improving coverage about women's history during the month of March. Events take place both offline and online. We are encouraging WikiProjects to focus on women's history related to their subject for the month of March. Some ideas include:

• Soap operas written, directed or produced by women
• Women who have played characters on soap operas
• The importance of soap opera culture in women's lives

We hope you'll participate! You can list your your project focus here, and also help improve our to-do list. Thank you for all you do for Wikipedia! SarahStierch (talk) 20:24, 19 January 2013 (UTC)

Rebecca Barnes Wentworth (Dallas) and Rebecca Barnes

At AFD it was decided to merge these two articles together. According to the fictional history of the show, "Rebecca Barnes Wentworth" is the grandmother of "Rebecca Barnes", so how do we handle the merger? -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 03:49, 21 January 2013 (UTC)

I've spoken with the closing admin and he has agreed that Rebecca Barnes Wentworth (Dallas) can be merged with List of Dallas characters, or simply redirected. –anemoneprojectors– 13:22, 23 January 2013 (UTC)

The creator of the page, Peteerh (talk · contribs), has blanked the page. I assume this could be handled through {{db-author}} ? I'll add a tag. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 01:29, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

The speedy delete was declined, so the merge or redirect is still to be done. -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 02:02, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Yes, speedy would only apply if they were the only person to have contributed significantly to the article. As it's all in-universe (storyline) information, I don't think it's worth merging much, so could just be redirected. –anemoneprojectors– 11:03, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Mind performing the honors? -- 76.65.128.43 (talk) 10:01, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

Peteerh

Peteerh (talk · contribs) is making hundreds of nuisance edits to Dallas characters, adding and then immediately removing the changes, moving parameters in the infobox up or down a few lines, and then doing it again a few hours later. -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:55, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

A new user has appeared with a similar user name and the same usage pattern (same kinds of nuisance edits) Peter9709 (talk · contribs) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 16:55, 1 February 2013 (UTC)

Middle Names & Strings of Other Names

Hello everyone. I would like to discuss something that can be problematic at times. When writing a lede section to an article there seems to be a standard to state a character name. Yes, in every article you obviously state the subject name. But in WP:SOAP articles we tend to go OTT? I think previous surnames that the character has been constantly known by - are okay. But what about names they have never been known as? What about a marriage 20 years in the past before the character was created? But most of all, what about middle names?

Sometimes a middle name is never used. It could be used for a wedding or an arrest. Not every character has a wedding or gets arrested. But what happens when they do and their middle name is revealed. Sometimes middle names are extremely long. You know the scene, vicar reads out the middle names you did not want your wedding party to hear, and they all laugh. Usually a old relatives name or a chain of names. Take these examples below:

• Vanessa Villante "Vanessa Francesca Antonella Villante is a fictional character"
• Mercedes McQueen "Mercedes Maria Theresa Immaculata Fisher (née McQueen; previously Owen) is a fictional character"

Vanessa has been called that once. Mercedes has been called it at least twice when she married. But by the time the general reader has got to "character in the British soap opera" part - they have already read out this massive sentence about the character’s name. Is it clutter? It is not even what the character is known by for the most part, right? Yet - this information is never mentioned in the article itself. But the actual definition of a lead section is meant to be a introduction to the article, reflecting information actually in the article. So should it even be there? But I suppose it is quite nice to know these things. So is there not a different home for it? Or maybe a field in the information box could work? What about a line a characterisation section? Perhaps a hidden note? What does everyone think?Rain the 1 17:18, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

I must admit that middle names are something that has started to get to me recently. Vanessa's looks ridiculous to me, especially in the lead of the article. Middle names are tricky to source too. Usually they are added without a source, so I tend to add a hidden note that mentions the date and episode it was mentioned in. I agree with what Rain said in his final paragraph. If the name isn't mentioned elsewhere in the article, why should it be mentioned so early on in the lead? I've also considered moving middle names to the storylines or characterisation section. Maybe a "full name" field could be added to the ibox to help the issue? Or maybe middle names should be removed all together, how important are they to the overall article? - JuneGloom Talk 18:37, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2013 February 15#Category:Soap Opera Digest Awards winners

Dropping by to alert you all to this discussion. Flyer22 (talk) 22:46, 15 February 2013 (UTC)