Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Clockwork universe theory

Clockwork universe theory

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Whereas there's a popular analogy, there's no "Clockwork universe theory"... Most of the citations fail WP:V and the page has become a POV WP:COATRACK, as evidenced by the TOC: 1 Art; 2 Opposition; 3 World-machine; 4 Objections Due to Free Will; 5 Objections Due to Entropy; 6 Objections Due to Axiomatic Mathematics; 7 Objections Due to Chaos Theory; 8 Objections Due to Quantum Mechanics... A redirection to either Determinism or Mechanism (philosophy) has been proposed.—Machine Elf ¹⁷³⁵ 19:30, 13 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2013 February 14. Snotbot t • c » 00:02, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Don't really understand the thinking. Clockwork universe has been in vogue as a theory describing the predictibility of the universe coming out of the renassaince since at least the 17th century. It resonates in popular parlance as a metaphore described in the introduction. Recent (mostly last 40+ years) discoveries have sharpened our understanding as the whether the universe is mathematically predictible. If these discoveries are discomforting, don't read about them but don't supress them... Just a thought... this section as you must have noted bears mostly on Newtonian dynamics which was the underpining of the theory... JudgementSummary (talk) 04:35, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Keep and rename to Clockwork universe: The paradigm of the clockwork universe has been a notable topic of philosophical discourse since the time of Isaac Newton. A Google Books search on the phrase "clockwork universe" turns up several thousand results. The article already contains over two dozen references, many of which qualify as WP:RS and the "Further Reading" notes that an entire book is devoted to the subject (The Clockwork Universe: Isaac Newton, the Royal Society, and the Birth of the Modern World). "Clockwork universe" has even become a notable concept outside its original domain of philosophy and classical mechanics (e.g. The New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy). The article readily satisfies WP:GNG and the topic is sufficiently distinct from both Determinism and Mechanism (philosophy) that a merge is not required. Any portions of the article having issues with WP:NPOV, WP:COATRACK, or citations which fail WP:V can be corrected through ordinary editing. These are all surmountable problems that do not represent good reasons for deleting the article. I agree with the nom that there is no Clockwork universe theory per se. It's more proper to speak of the topic as a paradigm that is based upon a philosophical interpretation of physical science, especially Newton's theory of classical mechanics, than a "theory" in its own right - a word which should be reserved for scientific predictive/explanatory models which have become established through a substantial body of supporting experimental evidence. So I would support renaming the article to Clockwork universe (which currently redirects to clockwork universe theory). --Mike Agricola (talk) 15:18, 14 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

In the interest of improving the article as opposed to removing all mention of the subject, I think that dropping "theory" from the title is a good idea. While the concept has elements of "theory" and "paradigm" and "metaphor" and whatnot, I think that "theory" is the least supportable for the reasons given eloquently above. "Paradigm" is a big improvment but has the connotation of being an archetype or example as if the subject involved different types of clocks/watches. "Metaphor" is the best in my opinion but also lacks something of the essence of its widespread usage... and "concept" is too generic and lacks color JudgementSummary (talk) 10:03, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comment/question: While I agree that the WP:TITLE, WP:NPOV, WP:COATRACK, and WP:V issues could be addressed by stubbing the article and moving it to Clockwork universe, I'd like to clarify that no one has actually suggested 1) that Clockwork universe be deleted, 2) that Clockwork universe is not a notable analogy, 3) or that the misapplication of the sources in the Clockwork universe theory article also fail WP:RS. MA, are you suggesting the subject of the article ought to be that of The Clockwork Universe: Isaac Newton, the Royal Society, and the Birth of the Modern World? From the NY Times review: "London before the mid-1600s was a general calamity. The streets were full of thieves, murderers and human waste. Death was everywhere: doctors were hapless, adults lived to about age 30, children died like flies. ... This little history begins Edward Dolnick’s “Clockwork Universe,” so the reader might think the book is about the Royal Society and its effects. But the Royal Society is dispatched in the first third of the book, and thereafter, the subject is how the attempt to find the mathematics governing the universe played out in the life of Isaac Newton."—Machine Elf ¹⁷³⁵ 10:43, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

You said, "that no one has actually suggested that Clockwork universe be deleted." Clockwork universe currently redirects to Clockwork universe theory. By nominating Clockwork universe theory for deletion, you effectively did suggest that it be deleted. Should your statement be interpreted to mean that you are now withdrawing your nomination? And no, I am not suggesting that the article's contents ought to mirror the contents of that book, but it may provide one useful reference regarding the cultural impact of the "clockwork universe" paradigm. --Mike Agricola (talk) 14:15, 15 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see why someone couldn't just change clockwork universe now/recreate that title later, as proper article about the analogy (not a "theory" or "paradigm").—Machine Elf ¹⁷³⁵ 07:49, 18 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]