Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive128

Sprutt

Sprutt (talk · contribs) topic banned indefinitely. NW (Talk) 18:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below. Request concerning Sprutt User who is submitting this request for enforcement Grandmaster 08:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Sprutt (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy to be enforced Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2#Final decision Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it November 30, 2012 [1] December 1, 2012 December 13, 2012 Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Warned on June 9, 2012 by Grandmaster (talk · contribs) Warned on November 30, 2012 by Grandmaster (talk · contribs) Warned on December 1, 2012 by Grandmaster (talk · contribs) Additional comments by editor filing complaint Sprutt repeatedly violated WP:AGF and WP:NPA during this discussion at WP:RSN despite repeated warnings to refrain from personal attacks. He is well aware of AA2 discretionary sanctions, but this does not stop him from commenting on contributor instead of the content. For his latest personal comment Sprutt received a warning from another user: [2], but I'm not sure that would put an end to violations of WP:NPA by Sprutt, as previous warnings had no effect. Grandmaster 08:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I understand that this is not a place to discuss content disputes, but I want to demonstrate that I did not provide false info about the article of Ronald Suny. This is what Suny wrote in his article: An angry crowd surrounded me as I was leaving the hall, shouting that I was davejan (a "traitor"in Armenian). My first response was to shout back that I was a scholar and an Armenian, only to be told that I was no scholar and no Armenian (hai ches). Security guards took me away to avoid further trouble. Personal attacks continued in the press, and a year later a book appeared in Erevan bitterly denouncing Western scholarship on Armenia, particularly my own work. I think it is pretty clear from the above that Suny was almost physically attacked in Yerevan, otherwise there would have been no need for the security guards to take him away "to avoid further trouble". One can imagine what would have happened to him if there were no security guards there. In any case, this does not excuse personal attacks by Sprutt, and he failed to demonstrate a single instance of me providing "false quotes". Once again, I would like to see an evidence to support his claim that I cited false quotes, otherwise I expect an apology for the false accusations, personal attacks and bad faith assumptions. Grandmaster 18:33, 13 December 2012 (UTC) There is no evidence that there was intention in Yerevan to attack Suny physically. "Further trouble" is no evidence for intended physical abuse. You fabricated this in order to add a dose of drama to your very tendentiousness remarks, hence my comments. Sprutt (talk) 00:36, 14 December 2012 (UTC) The text from the article by Suny is provided above for everyone to see. I think the admins will give their assessment whether there was fabrication in my statement or not. But your personal attacks and insults were not limited just to that. You accused me of trying to "push Azerbaijani nationalist propaganda" [3], "acting in bad faith": [4], "demagoguery and needless hoopla": [5], engaging in "fabrications in his attempt to fight his nationalist war against Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia" [6]. I believe you have a lot of explanations to make. Grandmaster 04:56, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Grandmaster confuses two things: personal attacks and qualification of professional conduct. Personal attacks, more properly called insults, are directed against personal characteristics (e.g. Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, sexual, or other epithets or threats Bold text(such as against people with disabilities, as per Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#What_is_considered_to_be_a_personal_attack.3F). Qualification of the quality of professional demeanor are no personal attacks or insults. I never called you an idiot, or a demagogue or a fabricator. I expressed opinions about the low quality of your remarks. These are no personal attacks, and not covered under WP:NPA. Sprutt (talk) 18:11, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Check carefully your link to WP:NPA. It says inter alia that a personal attack are "Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence". It also says that the examples cited there are not exhaustive, and "Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done". I don't see how your comments cited above could be in line with Wikipedia civility rules. Grandmaster 19:17, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested [7] Discussion concerning Sprutt Statement by Sprutt This is not the first time when Grandmaster files a frivolous report when he disagrees with his fellow discussants, and runs out of arguments. This is a bogus request, and no violations took place. There are no personal attacks in my comments. Grandmaster will do everyone a favor if he familiarizes himself what personal attack is. This information is in the subsection of the WP:NPA discussion, in the paragraph titled What is considered to be a personal attack [8]. Grandmaster provoked a discussion along the lines "my-country's-info-is-better-than-your-country's-info" which received criticism of involved third party participants in the discussion [9]. Grandmaster's habit of filing false alarm request and using AA2 sanctions as a tool of attacking his opponents shall be curbed by the community. Grandmaster provided false information that Ronald Suny was "almost physically attacked" [10] in Yerevan. His article "Constructing Primordialism: Old Histories for New Nations" discusses a rather tense debates on contentious subject but contains no such information. My very best wishes asked me to provide evidence supporting claims in the discussion about Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia [11]: (a) Accusation that Grandmaster "engaged in fabrications." There is no evidence that there was intention in Yerevan to attack R. Suny physically. "Further trouble" that is in the text of the paper referred to by Grandmaster provides no evidence for any intended physical abuse. Grandmaster fabricated (i.e. manipulated the meaning of the passage) this in order to add a extra dose of drama to his very tendentious remarks, hence my comment. The other instance of the use of the word fabrication is my agreement with User:MarshallBagramyan who suggested that "The controversy surrounding the examples cited by Grandmaster are fabricated by himself entirely and it's unfortunate that his argument is receiving more attention than is truly warranted" here [12]. (b) Accusation that Grandmaster "uses fake quotes." Under a closer inspection it turned out that Grandmaster did not cite Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia directly [13] - as I originally thought - but pointed to Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia references in WP. This is a good faith technical mistake on my part. My apologies to Grandmaster. (c) Accusation that Grandmaster was "the head of a coordinated tag team." This comes from evidence provided in this discussion [14], and more directly here [15] and here [16], where Grandmaster is discussed as the head of the 26 Baku Commissars tag team. Here Grandmaster the ArbCom directly accuses Grandmaster of being the coordinator of the above-mentioned distribution list [17]. Sprutt (talk) 03:44, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Also take a note on Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#Recurring_attacks. As I mentioned my comments are not personal attacks, but even if someone is misinterpreting them in that light, please take a note of remedies suggested in this subsection. The passage says clearly: In most circumstances, problems with personal attacks can be resolved if editors work together and focus on content, and immediate administrator action is not required. A ban from an entire area of discussion simply for calling someone's disruptive misinterpretations as "fabrication" is a draconian measure totally unprecedented in WP. Sprutt (talk) 04:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Grandmaster quotations miss out context, and thus mis-characterize others' remarks Grandmaster quotations removes the context, and thus mis-characterize remarks of other discussants. He carefully selects single words or phrases and quotes them without the discussion in which they were used. In my comments I gave my reasons why his behavior presents fabrication or demagoguery. Grandmaster also confuses two things: personal attacks and critical qualification of professional conduct. Personal attacks, more properly called insults, are directed against personal characteristics (e.g. Racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, sexual, or other epithets (such as against people with disabilities, as per Wikipedia:No_personal_attacks#What_is_considered_to_be_a_personal_attack.3F). Or they are threats. Assessment of the quality of professional demeanor and quality or possible origin of Grandmaster's biases are no personal attacks or insults. I never insulted or belittled my opponents, including Grandmaster, in order to attack his/their claims or invalidate their arguments. I never directly called Grandmaster an idiot, or a demagogue or a fabricator. I never threatened Grandmaster. I expressed opinions about the low quality of his remarks and his tactics to manipulate the discussion. These are no personal attacks, and not covered under WP:NPA. Sprutt (talk) 18:11, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by Zimmarod: a witch-hunt by WP:AGF violators? I don't see any serious misconduct by Sprutt at all. There are people insisting on something "serious" but the evidence is not there, especially meriting banning from AA area. For what? Sprutt pointed to grossly incorrect interpretation by Grandmaster on which his line of attack in favor of banning Armenian Soviet Encyclopedia was based. This is a violation by Grandmaster to begin with. Zimmarod (talk) 19:37, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I see that Grandmaster is in gross violation of WP:AGF himself as he accuses me of a connection with someone else. Should I imply in return that he and My best wishes are a coordinated team? Is this a witch-hunt? Zimmarod (talk) 20:27, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Moved from incorrect section. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC) This is ludicrous, and grossly unfair . If you compare who was topic banned from AA you would come up with those engaged in persistent edit warring, or racial attacks. Nothing remotely similar is implied for Sprutt. Sprutt is a year-old account and I see nothing objectionable in his demeanor for that quite long period of time. User:Grandmaster was indeed head of a tag group and a distribution list in Russian WP, coming under sanctions for coordinated editing and harassment in RuWiki. An administrator may ask Sprutt to be more moderate and argumentative in the various forums but topic ban is hell of a bias for this case. My question of "why" would come with very strong and multiple question marks. Zimmarod (talk) 21:03, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Statement by 517design Grandmaster should be sanctioned for misusing AE requests for attempts to remove people out of his way whom he cannot cooperate with. I see nothing especially reproachable in Sprutt's conduct. I value his apology to Grandmaster. Sprutt appears to be a well-behaved account, and Grandmaster's insinuations are not convincing. I urge sysops to close this AE request cold turkey. 517design (talk) 19:02, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Sprutt @Sprutt. Unfortunately, I must agree with Grandmaster: this is a serious personal attack by you, unless you can indeed provide any evidence (diffs please) of your claims (and claims by Marshal Bagramyan you tell?) made here. My very best wishes (talk) 17:10, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Your comment is an inappropriate exaggeration. See for yourself what "Serious personal attack" is. Did I use racial, sexist, homophobic, ageist, religious, political, ethnic, sexual, or other epithets, as per [18]? NO. Did I use someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views, as per [19]? Did I link to external attacks, harassment, or other material, for the purpose of attacking another editor, as per [20]? NO. Did I compare editors to Nazis, dictators, etc, as per [21]? NO. Did I use threats, including, threats of legal action, violence etc, as per [22]? NO! Anyway, see what Grandmaster did wrong. Sprutt (talk) 18:30, 13 December 2012 (UTC) You tell: "User:Grandmaster is engaged in fabrications ... He cites fake quotes... Grandmaster has been routinely accused - with evidence - of being the head of a coordinated tag team which attacks good edits and wages ridiculous nationalist wars in Wikipedia.". Hence, please provide diffs proving that Grandmaster was (a) "engaged in fabrications", (b) "cites fake quotes", and (c) "the head of a coordinated tag team". Thanks, My very best wishes (talk) 19:59, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I have an impression that User:Meowy or other alternative accounts have something to do with this... My very best wishes (talk) 20:06, 13 December 2012 (UTC) To me also the appearance of Zimmarod (talk · contribs) at this page after more than 2 months of absence looks quite strange, especially considering that he and Sprutt created user accounts here almost simultaneously, Sprutt on 11 November 2011, and Zimmarod on 16 November 2011. Grandmaster 20:13, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Aha! My account and Sprutt's account were routinely checked multiple times on the matter sock-puppetry at the request of Grandmaster if I remember correctly. What I see here is a witch-hunt by a couple of individuals who are violators of WP:AGF, who are trying to get someone else prosecuted for violation of WP:AGF. Zimmarod (talk) 20:19, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I said nothing of sockpuppetry. Only that your appearance here looks a bit unusual. May I ask how you became aware of this request? Grandmaster 20:31, 13 December 2012 (UTC) I am an increasingly busy and don't find enough time to edit but I am monitoring discussions in the AA area, especially those on Nagorno-Karabakh, and I noticed that your behavior is getting increasingly disturbing. Zimmarod (talk) 20:47, 13 December 2012 (UTC) All right then. But it looks like from your very short edit history you appear ones every few months, exclusively to take part in AE discussion, AfD or another dispute in AA area... My very best wishes (talk) 21:28, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Thank you, Sprutt, for providing additional links and diffs [23]. Most of them are dated back to 2009 and belong to ruwiki. There is only one recent diff, but that one implicates MarshallBagramyan rather than anyone else. My very best wishes (talk) 04:27, 14 December 2012 (UTC) I don't understand. I agree with MarshallBagramyan's assessment that Grandmaster is fabricating things. In other words it is not only my opinion. And indeed one additional example of this tactics is his misinterpretation (manipulation/fabrication) of the article by Prof. Suny. I also issued an apology for my technical mistake regarding what I thought were quotations fro ASE. You over-dramatize the situation. Being part of a tag team is a violation too serious to have expiry date. Sprutt (talk) 04:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Since Sprutt mentioned MarshallBagramyan and provided a diff to his comment, it would be really helpful if MarshallBagramyan explained how exactly I "fabricated controversies". In my opinion, this comment was quite inappropriate and escalated the tensions at that board. Grandmaster 05:05, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Fabricate in this context means exaggerate for the purpose of misleading the discussion. Sprutt (talk) 16:12, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Result concerning Sprutt This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. Sprutt, those are some very serious accusations; unless you'd care to back them up with strong evidence, I'd suggest a topic ban from the AA area. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 18:34, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Comment by Zimmarod moved to proper section. Please reply in your own section. Seraphimblade Talk to me 04:31, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Agree, though I would not be opposed to sanctioning even beyond that. There is reasonable and professional conduct on that page from many editors; Sprutt is not one of them. To me, it is quite evident that Sprutt is not approaching this topic area with his or her biases sufficiently left at the door. NW (Talk) 18:53, 13 December 2012 (UTC) Absent any objections, I propose that a topic ban be enacted in 24 hours. The discussion above has failed to convince me that it is not needed (quite the opposite actually). NW (Talk) 19:41, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Agreed; after thinking about this, an indef topic ban still seems the best option. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 22:51, 14 December 2012 (UTC) Enacting topic ban. NW (Talk) 18:50, 15 December 2012 (UTC)