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To the anon 190 editor, I am the anon 76 editor. I did not revert your edit, I changed them. I agree that the original wording was perhaps not NPOV, but I think your edit over compensated, so in good faith I made changes in the interest of further neutrality. The language I used is neutral "can be" instead of "is" and "said to be" instead of "is" I do not believe it is also necessary to toss in superfluous "according to her" and "supposedly" every other word, which I believe crosses the line from neutral to borderline discrediting an academically respected idea. I will refrain from editing the intro for a time to give you a chance to possibly restore my edits, or compromise with a new edit you feel works better. But eventually I do believe the wording can be changed. 76.103.47.66 (talk) 15:43, 7 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. The original reason why I changed the lead was to make it clear that not everyone believes that absolutely all women are subjugated to the means explained in the article and that not everyone believes that Western societies are patriarchical. It is not my intention to question or discredit Ås's ideas, but rather to clarify that those are solely her own. I am open to suggestions on how to improve the lead. Meanwhile, how do these examples sound to you?
Example 1: The master suppression techniques were a framework articulated in the late 1970s by the Norwegian social psychologist Berit Ås[1] to describe five means by which, according to her, women can be subjugated to in arguably patriarchical Western societies. I included "according to her" to avoid presenting her point of view as a fact beyond all doubt. "Arguably" is necessary since as I said not all scholars are of the opinion that Western societies are patriarchical.
Example 2: The master suppression techniques were a framework articulated in the late 1970s by the Norwegian social psychologist Berit Ås to describe five means by which, according to her, women can be subjugated in a Western patriarchical society. The same sentence as in this edit of yours, but with "according to her" added.
Mind explaining how? I am not ignoring persons in opposition (first technique); I am not portraying the arguments of, or opponents themselves, in a ridiculing fashion (second technique); I am neither excluding anyone from the decision-making process nor knowingly not forwarding information (third technique); I am neither punishing nor belittling the actions of a person (fourth technique); I am neither embarrassing anyone nor insinuating that they are themselves to blame for their position (fifth technique); I am not discussing the appearance of one or several persons (sixth technique); and I am not threatening with or using my physical strength towards one or several persons (seventh and last technique). It seems to me that your accusation lacks any basis in reality. --190.19.104.234 (talk) 02:53, 15 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
On the contrary, your phrasing does marginalize this topic. "According to her", "supposedly" -- these are hedge words you inserted to attempt to erode Ås' arguments without actually addressing them. You are inserting your own opinions here, claiming to defense some objective position. If you want to argue that western society is not patriarchal or that men do not use these techniques to silence women, this article is not the place to do so :). This article describes Ås' work; it is not a forum for your own opinions. 108.199.240.191 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 23:28, 14 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]
First of all, I must say that I felt quite offended by your claim that my position is "bs" and I believe an apology is in order. I hope you realize that being disrespectful is not only detrimental to the well-being of this community but also goes explicitly against policies such as WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA.
As I have previously clarified, my intention is far from marginalizing or eroding Ås's ideas. Such allegations are your point of view and yours alone. If you are of the opinion that my wording discredits Ås, by all means feel free to suggest an introduction that does not make the claim that Western societies are patriarchical or that women are subjugated in such societies.
That being said, I completely agree with you on the point that Wikipedia is not the place to argue that Western society is not patriarchical or that men do not use these techniques to silence women; precisely in the same way, may I add, that it is not the place to argue that Western society is patriarchical or that men do use these techniques to silence women, either.
I have stated before that I am open to ideas on how to improve the lead section. I cannot help but find it unfortunate that you do not seem to share the same willingness to compromise. --190.19.96.181 (talk) 04:51, 5 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
According to the summary, these techniques are by definition used to suppress women. One example is A man is critiqued for not helping out with domestic work, but is called unmanly when doing so. How does this example fall under the definition? What do you call a Master Suppression Technique when it's being used against the Master? --88.73.46.227 (talk) 17:06, 15 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]
