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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Phil Bridger (talk | contribs) at 21:43, 23 January 2012. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Association for Contextual Behavioral Science

Association for Contextual Behavioral Science (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Dubious notability; author removed PROD but still lacks independent sources to confirm enduring notability. Zzarch (talk) 01:01, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The author did not remove PROD for this article, I did. I disagree that this article meets criteria for deletion which is why I removed PROD in the first place. --Tzadkiel43 (talk) 01:21, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Additionally, it would seem that ACBS is notable enough to be mentioned within the article for Behaviorism itself... see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behaviorism#21st-century_behavior_analysis --Tzadkiel43 (talk) 01:24, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Understood. If you could find independent sources confirming the general notability of this organization, I would support keeping. Zzarch (talk) 01:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I was able to find a few independent sources which make mention of ACBS: "http://moritaschool.com/content/links", "http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831449/", "http://jpepsy.oxfordjournals.org/content/36/4/398.short". The following google scholar search brought up 55 hits: "http://scholar.google.com/scholar?lr=lang_en&q=%22association+for+contextual+behavioral+science%22&hl=en&as_sdt=0,14" --Tzadkiel43 (talk) 01:53, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I see. Voting for Keep then, but you may wish to integrate some third party source into the article itself. Zzarch (talk) 01:57, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I have found no independent sources mentioning this group. From what I can tell the links above are all from advocates, with one source only mentioning this group while citing the Wikipedia page. Furthermore, the account creating this article may be the same Steven C. Hayes who founded the therapy it advocates.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 04:13, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
That seems a valid WP:COI concern, and I am withdrawing my vote for now to see if anyone can provide sources that clearly come from neutral and non-advocating parties. Zzarch (talk) 04:51, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
How about this for a neutral or non-advocating party? The Association for Behavioral Analysis International mentioned ACBS in 2007 in Vol. 30, No 7 of its newsletter; scroll down that page and look for the heading "Building Bridges: Collaboration with Other Organizations," and then look for the mention of ACBS as one of eight organizations ABAI is interested in "building bridges and sharing opportunities with." Some of the other organizations in this list are quite well known, e.g. the American Psychology Association, so it is not as if phantoms are being made up here. This plus the University of Nevado, Reno source that I mentioned in my Keep vote lower on on this page are examples of numerous brief mentions on the web of ACBS by reputable and neutral (in the sense of not directly affiliated) third parties. Whole Sight (talk) 15:28, 12 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Behavioural science-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 13:39, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep The notion of deleting at this point seems driven by a single person who has chosen to selectively ignore a great deal of evidence pointing in favor of notability. To give just one more instance of such evidence, the University of Nevada, Reno, has a press release on its web site detailing the 2010 annual conference for ACBS - including a rough count of number of conference participants, etc. etc. Yes, UNR is where Steven C. Hayes teaches; but on the other hand, UNR's existence as a university is not in question, and for this press release to be dismissed as untrustworthy in its description of this ACBS event as a significant one within the field of academic psychology, one would have to conceive of a grand conspiracy theory of some sort. I would say it is up to anyone still proposing deletion to at this point prove the various cited sources are unreliable. The link to the UNR press release is is here . Whole Sight (talk) 15:11, 12 January 2012 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
    • Ah, I see someone has gone to the effort of SPA'ing me as a "single purpose account." I wouldn't agree. I've had few edits outside this page, yes, but I do have other interests, e.g. I spotted and flagged a blatantly promotional article for KSwiss, the sneaker manufacturer, that was then removed; my interest in that case was tennis. Very suspicious I'm sure! Check me out a bit more carefully, please, before making unwarranted assumptions. Whole Sight (talk) 16:28, 13 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Queeste and Tzadkiel have few edits on Wikipedia and a nice chunk of those edits relate to this therapy and its proponents. The therapy itself has some established notability, but notability is not transferable to anything related to the therapy.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 16:18, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment on comment Are we going ad hominem? The Devil's Advocate's comment is a lie. I do have few edits, right. I'm Dutch speaking and active on the Dutch Wiki. But a nice chunk of my edits having to do with this therapy??? Exactly 1 to be precise: it's about Steven Hayes. What did I add: a category! Big thing, no? Check my Dutch edits if you want to have an impression of my background; be my guest. And still: it's ad hominem and thus besides the question. It's an insult.--Queeste (talk) 17:42, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I am clever enough to actually look at your contributions you know, including those on the Dutch Wikipedia. You have made mostly insignificant contributions there (a whole lot of redirects to articles about beer stuck out) and, once more, you were making a lot of contributions to articles related to this therapy right as you started editing there. As far as only making "1 edit" you actually have made several, though you may think someone is not going to check up on that. You have added wikilinks for the Steven Hayes article to other articles, added information about RFT, made edits on experiential avoidance that support the general contention of ACT, and added the website for the subject of this article to another page. All of that on the English Wikipedia. Edits on this particular subject are your first edits in both areas of Wikipedia. Do you have any affiliation with the proponents of the therapy?--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 21:37, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Would it be possible to move the discussion back to the merits of the article itself? I hardly think that my relatively few edits (most of which concern naval issues, not sure how you came to the conclusion that a "nice chunk" relate to the therapy or its proponents) compared to yours has much to do with the points that were raised concerning the presence of other articles covering organizations without independent sources. The argument that you made concerning the therapy's notability not applying to the organization also applies to Association for Behavioral and Cognitive Therapies and Association for Behavior Analysis International. If these articles are acceptable, why not Association for Contextual Behavioral Science? Or any of the other organizations that Queeste mentioned that you did not address?--Tzadkiel43 (talk) 22:25, 9 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
It is important an admin reviewing this understands the apparent biases of those suggesting it be kept. Your points are ultimately not very significant. There are many articles lacking sources, but notability does not specifically require that sources be present in the article. So long as independent sources exist supporting its notability the article is suitable for inclusion. However, listing other articles that you think should or should not be deleted is a distraction. If any of those other articles lack sufficient notability for an independent article then those would need to be deleted as well. What matters is whether this article has notability that can be established with significant mentions in independent reliable sources.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 00:11, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
We can agree to disagree about the relevance of the other similar articles currently in existence, I think. Can you be specific as to exactly what kinds of independent sources you consider suitable? A google search for "Association for Contextual Behavioral Science" returns 389,000 results. --Tzadkiel43 (talk) 00:25, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Raw number of hits are irrelevant. The top results I find are all directly-affiliated or closely-affiliated with the subject of the article. After ten pages of such sources Google stops listing them because the rest are apparently not much different.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 02:13, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I'm starting to get the impression that you're really not reading what I am typing here. I asked you directly what kinds of independent sources you consider suitable, and you offered no input on that. I'm going to go ahead and add this to the debate: ACBS is a rapidly expanding notable international organization of over 5,000 members on par with other organizations with their own articles. ACBS was recognized back in 2007 by the Association for Behavior Analysis International as a noteworthy organization.[1] Time magazine ran a piece on Steven C. Hayes in which the ACBS website is listed as a resource for locating ACT therapists.[2] Finally, I noticed that in addition to calling for the deletion of this article you've flagged the biography for Steven C. Hayes as problematic as well. Since you've ignored the other articles which I have pointed out have the exact same problems as the article under discussion, I think I'm going to have to point out a possible bias on your part, The Devil's Advocate, as you seem to be targeting Steven C. Hayes and the organization that he is associated with. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzadkiel43 (talk • contribs) 03:03, 10 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment on the irony of this discussion within Wikipedia What would normally be a superabundance of evidence that ACBS is a notable organization is effectively being held hostage by a single Wikipedia editor who has failed to answer a direct question as to what he, personally, would consider acceptable evidence. Meanwhile, outside of Wikipedia, we have a book reviewer in the very well-known Journal of Applied Behavior Analysis citing the Wikipedia entry on Behaviorism as evidence that behavior analysis as a field is evolving in new and important ways - with ACBS being part of this evolution! This article can be found [here] and the pertinent passage is as follows - the italics are mine to add emphasis:

No book is perfect, however, and this one does have some gaps in important subjects, the diminutive or absent coverage of which is incongruent with the large size of their relevant literatures. Three notable examples include behavioral pharmacology, organizational behavior management (OBM), and clinical behavior analysis (e.g., acceptance and commitment therapy [ACT], functional analytic psychotherapy). All three areas have large literatures, broad multi-disciplinary influence, and many adherents.

For example, the section of the online encyclopedia Wikipedia devoted to behaviorism describes OBM as having “a particularly strong following within behavior analysis, as evidenced by the formation of the OBM network and the influential Journal of Organizational Management (… recently rated as the third highest impact journal in applied psychology…).” The same section discusses ACT and states that “researchers and practitioners in RFT/ACT have become sufficiently prominent that they have formed their own specialized organization, known as the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science.” Wikipedia does not include behavioral pharmacology as an entry, but one recent issue of JABA is devoted entirely to the topic (Winter 2008). This issue is large, and it is one of the few devoted to a single subject that JABA has published in its history, which is pretty clear evidence that the area is important to the field. I suspect I need supply no more evidence to support my argument that all three are large and growing specialized areas of applied behavior analysis. That I could, however, is readily indicated by cursory searches on Google Scholar, Psych Info, Amazon.com, and in university libraries.

— Patrick C Friman, J Appl Behav Anal. 2010 Spring; 43(1): 161–174.

Leaving the irony of the Wikipedia cite aside, what ought to be especially telling for this discussion is Friman's comment that even "cursory searches" in the databases and libraries he mentions validate his argument that behavior analysis is evolving and that ACT (sponsored by ACBS) is part of this. And in fact anyone interested in this discussion can undertake such a cursory search for themselves: specifically, search within the recent literature of behavior analysis (2011 will be fine though you can easily go back 10 or 20 years) for mentions of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy or Relational frame theory. Then start researching the professional affiliations for the researchers involved. Surprise . . . you will start seeing ACBS membership frequently mentioned.

I invite anyone who still proposes this article for deletion to undertake the above research. It would take perhaps 20 minutes. It might convince you to let go of any doubts you still harbor. Whole Sight (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The fact it is only mentioning the group because it is mentioned on Wikipedia is exactly the problem. I have yet to find any example of this group receiving significant mentions from people who are not affiliated with the group or the therapy. Seems the group itself is not sufficiently notable to warrant their own article.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 16:29, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Did you not read my full comment? Fridman is not mentioning ACBS "because it is mentioned on Wikipedia." Please re-read my comment in its entirety and respond accordingly. Whole Sight (talk) 19:08, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I confess I did not read everything, though what I didn't read before isn't anymore helpful now than the part I did read when I made my comment. The remainder of your comments make the exact kind of argument that I already addressed. Notability is not inherited. Just because a notable therapy is connected to a group, does not mean that group has notability sufficient for an article as well. I have no objection to including the information in articles about the therapy and related ideas where it is sufficiently significant and relevant to the subject, but an independent article on this group would not be justified.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 19:39, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for clarifying. In response to your objection that notability here is "inherited," please see the section on "Alternate criteria for specific types of organizations" within [[1]]. This section states that "Organizations are usually notable if they meet both of the following standards: The scope of their activities is national or international in scale. Information about the organization and its activities can be verified by multiple, third-party, independent, reliable sources." I'd say ACBS meets the first of these two criteria easily: it has international activities and scope. I also think it meets the second criteria, on the basis of frequent mentions in news bulletins from major universities, some of which are already cited here. Is there an objection to such cites as somehow unreliable? Whole Sight (talk) 20:44, 21 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The sources have to be independent and so far you have definitely not met that standard.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 17:33, 22 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
In what way is a new bulletin from a major university not independent? And surely you mean to suggest that you feel the article does not meet that standard, not a participant in this discussion? Tzadkiel43 (talk) 03:12, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Here are more independent sources which mention ACBS, in addition to the ones that have already been posted and been ignored: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2686981/ ; http://www.div12.org/PsychologicalTreatments/treatments/chronicpain_act.html ; http://www.sheknows.com/health-and-wellness/articles/838097/6-ways-to-conquer-your-biggest-fears ; http://www.scientificmindfulness.com/2010/07/acbs-2010-interview-with-robyn-walser.html ; http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-clinpsy-032210-104449 ; http://www.unr.edu/nevada-today/news/2010/nevada-hosts-international-third-wave-psychology-conference ; http://faculty.ksu.edu.sa/Alhassan/Hand%20book%20on%20research%20in%20educational%20communication/ER5849x_C006.fm.pdf ; http://crankyshrink.blogspot.com/2010/04/eighth-world-conference-on-act-rft-and.html ; http://www.spiritualcompetency.com/scrcQuiz.aspx?courseID=44 Tzadkiel43 (talk) 03:44, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Independent means a source that is not connected to the subject. Two of those sources are papers co-written by Steven C. Hayes himself, the creator of the therapy the organization advocates. Eric J. Fox is a member of the ACBS so the pdf you gave is not independent. Joel Guarna, one of the bloggers you cited, is another member. Several of the other sources are focused in the same limited field of "mindfulness" or "spiritual" therapy. One source is just a faculty member at a university writing about the group having an event at that university. The only decent sources you gave make only trivial mentions of the group in connection with the ACT therapy. Again, the therapy is notable, but that does not automatically pass on to the organization advocating it.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 18:08, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The mention of ACBS as the sponsoring organization for Acceptance and Commitment Therapy on the National Registry of Evidence-based Programs and Practices web site is not a trivial mention, but rather, quite detailed and specific, as follows: "ACT development is guided by the Association for Contextual Behavioral Science (ACBS), which can provide referrals to professionals in a specific area of interest. ACBS also has a worldwide system of recognized trainers (http://www.contextualpsychology.org/act_trainers) who are available to assist agencies interested in implementation." The source here is a department of a U.S. government agency that undertakes strict reviews of particular therapies, including a history ("Implementation History") of those who advocate said therapies - hence the very material and pertinent reference to ACBS. And the very nature of these reviews is that they be independent and reliable - as stated on the About NREPP page, "The National Registry of Evidence-based Programs and Practices (NREPP) is a searchable online registry of mental health and substance abuse interventions that have been reviewed and rated by independent reviewers." So that is one source for notability right there that is already included in the article. One additional source will meet the criteria for "multiple sources" and thus for notability of ACBS. Whole Sight (talk) 19:35, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Trivial mentions are not enough. Multiple trivial mentions are still trivial mentions. All the independent sources mentioned have been talking about ACT and then saying basically "see here for practitioners of this therapy" without any significant information on the organization. You have made a strong argument for possibly making this a redirect to the ACT therapy page, but your argument is not strong enough for having an independent article.--The Devil's Advocate (talk) 21:25, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Despite all of the filibustering above from the promotors of this organisation the sources offered fall well short of our requirements for notability, with no independent reliable sources giving more than a passing mention. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:56, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Not sure that this statement makes a great deal of sense. So far the opposition to this article has been one individual which more closely fits the definition of filibustering. Secondly, I don't see how labeling contributors to this discussion as "promoters of the organization" assumes good faith on the part of others or helps in any way to build a consensus on this article. There are several suitable independent sources which have been provided for this article. Labeling them "passing mentions" and dismissing them does not change this fact. 98.195.154.2 (talk) 20:46, 23 January 2012 (UTC) This template must be substituted.[reply]
OK then, if I'm missing something in the above discussion, could you please point out which of the independent reliable sources presented provide more than passing mentions? Phil Bridger (talk) 21:43, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  1. ^ Association for Behavior Analysis International
  2. ^ http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1156613-1,00.html
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