Talk:Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development

The article SUPER was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 09 August 2011 with a consensus to merge the content into Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development. If you find that such action has not been taken promptly, please consider assisting in the merger instead of re-nominating the article for deletion. To discuss the merger, please use this talk page.

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ISTAG was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 04 August 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Merge request

I have converted the EU Framework Program for Research and Technological Development article into a redirect page that leads here as the article contained on this pagecorresponds to all Wikipedia standards whereas the other one is simply redundant and "unencyclopaedic". RedZebra 16:48, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

copyedit for conciseness

I started removing the over-promotional language, removing PR jargon to make a more effective discussion. This in an encyclopedia, not a promotional web site. There's still some more to go. I added subheads, but references are needed for the criticism section, and a few key terms need internal links. DGG (talk) 23:19, 5 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Still a bit congratulary?

Apart from being quite sceptical of Muldur et al.'s claims of returns on investment (I doubt the reliabilitiy of a prediction of returns on a current, i.e. 2006, research investment 25-30 years in the future, especially as it pertains to overall impact on GDP growth), I believe this article still needs revision.

Passages such as:

"There are also the intangible result of providing incentive to face the intrinsic complexity of international collaborations."

("Sounds like it's good, why? Because we say so." And btw, what exactly is the point of this claim?)

"Changes triggered by research policy directly affect people and enterprises, which experience broader horizons and experience the advantages of international collaboration." (Well the fact that changes caused by research effect people and businesses is hardly surprising... Apart from that: the "advantages" of collaboration could actually be downsides/failures, if the collaboration goes awry?)

"Diversity introduces additional costs, but it facilitates addressing competitors in an even more diverse world." (How exactly does diversity facilitate addressing competitors? And again what exactly is the point of this passage? And what does it actually mean?)

"This complements the institutional activities of the EU, building a community united in diversity capable of facing the challenges of a globalized world." (Well hurrah, bring out your blue & star banners... Why is this here? It sounds more like a promotional slogan than an encyclopedic entry) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mojowiha (talk • contribs) 23:03, 28 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like government-speak justifying the political correctness of the grants favoring collaboration across countries that speak diferent languages and have different cultures. This is probably worth mentioning, because indeed diversity had both advantages and challenges. But needs to in plain English and not obfuscated promotion. W Nowicki (talk) 18:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The projects

When I saw a few of the projects up for deletion, I started merging the one line about each that had some info into this article. The articles generally read like the promotional language of the grant applications, not appropriate for Wikipedia. It seems there are many more projects that have articles but do not seem notable, and even more projects that never had articles. See Category:FP5 Projects Category:FP6 Projects and Category:Seventh Framework Programme projects (note inconsistent category naming). I then thought about a table, but if there are hundreds of projects that could get unwieldy. Perhaps one idea would be a general discussion of the thrusts of each program, if we can cut through the government-speak. For example, I noticed many projects on "Grid computing" which was trendy at the time. There is even a FP6 Grid Computing Projects list article with a table already. And the List of grid computing projects list which should probably go, since the term quickly got untrendy. Any thoughts? W Nowicki (talk) 18:05, 2 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Many articles analogous to ISTAG exist, including Webinos and SUPER. Many are currently flagged for deletion, and the discussions I have seen, especially on the two pages mentioned, are converging towards deletion or, where the possibility is mentioned, merging with Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development. Most or all of the articles seem to reflect these instructions. Many more such articles exist but have not been flagged. All these articles are peers and should be handled in a consistent way; in my opinion by merging them here. Naming all the constituent projects in a table is probably not necessary. Appropriate External References would suffice. After all, this topic is about FPRTD handling its own publicity rather than leveraging Wikipedia. Ornithikos (talk) 03:55, 5 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree with this way of handling them, except of course, for any projects which are actually notable, though I'm not sure what the criteria should be. At the least any projects with substantial discussions about the project by 3rd party RSs will meet the GNG. I doubt this applies to most of them.

Third-party sources must be used carefully. Those that I've seen so far in this connection look like press releases from the same sources that created the nonqualifying articles. I think the plan is to create a furore about each project, then justify each component of the furore by citing other components as independent sources. Perhaps "substantial discussions ... by 3rd party RSs" excludes such bootstrapping; I don't know what an RS is in this context. Ornithikos (talk) 01:34, 8 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]