Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive93

Shatter Resistance

Request concerning Shatter Resistance

User who is submitting this request for enforcement

--Domer48_'fenian' 21:03, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

User against whom enforcement is requested

Shatter Resistance (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

Sanction or remedy to be enforced

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Final remedies for AE case

All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24 hour period). When in doubt, assume it is related. Clear vandalism, or edits by anonymous IP editors, may be reverted without penalty Editors who violate this 1RR restriction may be blocked without warning by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence.

Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it

1. Revert 1
2. Revert 2
3. Revert 3
4. Revert 4 Despite the notifications and requeste

Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required)

1. Notice placed on Article Talk Page
2. Notice placed on Editors Talk Page

Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction)

To be determined.

Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

notification

Additional comments by editor filing complaint

Shatter Resistance despite being made aware of the 1RR, and having been asked to self revert, a number of times [1][2] by both myself and another editor who also asked a number of times [3][4] they have prevaricated both on their talk page, and on the Article Talk page. They then point blank refused to self revert. Despite all this the editor then makes a fourth revert.

Editor has now indicated that they will continue to revert regardless.--Domer48_'fenian' 21:09, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

On the Article they have stated "I don't care how many reverts we are meant to have I am trying to establish a discussion" and are actively looking to have the article locked. On their version of course!--Domer48_'fenian' 21:19, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

On their talk page they have stated "I don't won't to keep on reverting but I will in order to maintain the status quo."--Domer48_'fenian' 22:05, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Discussion concerning Shatter Resistance

Comments by Shatter Resistance

Firstly, I'm not entirely sure how this works so please correct me if I am writing in the wrong places Secondly, the first revert mentioned here as being vandalism is definetly not so as it was my first revert, which I am entitled to under IRR, there was confusion about that earlier. Thirdly, I have no indicated I will revert regardless I have indicated that I will revert any edits which again change the article from its old format, a decision which you will find other users accepting if you look on my talk page and the article in question. I wanted a discussion about the changes, I provided evidence (the only person to do so) yet apparently nobody wishes to have one. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:14, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I don't see how wanting to get the article locked (by which I did mean protected, sorry) is in any way wrong. Assuming Wikipedia actually listens to sense then if the article was protected that would mean I was correct and if it wasn't then it would mean I wasn't. Getting the article protected would actually stop me making reverts and would instead mean a discsussion could take place, something I have a strong record of advocating instead of just making unilateral changes. This is the first time that I have ever had other users attempt to stop a discussion - or to put it more accuratly not to revert and discuss which has so far always led to a compromise both sides have been happy with. At one point there seemed to be an agreement to discuss and actually I'm only here because I reverted so that process could continue. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:29, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Actually I do understant 3RR, it was only after you said that it was fine to revert disruptive edits whatever that I reverted for the 4th time (which under your logic wasn't a breach of 3RR). I admit to breaking 1RR however, I didn't know about it, though as seems to have been accepted by other users that was a mistake and everybody seemed fine just to let me off the hook on that one considering my reverts took place before I read their warnings. Shatter Resistance (talk) 21:45, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Well I haven't been a member before, but well I have no way of proving that so you will just have to decide to trust me or not on that (not that I think it should actually make any real difference), unless there is a way of finding out in which case go for it, I have nothing to hide.

I'd also like to point out that the article in which I am accussed of making me violations on is the Irish general election, 1918 which was not in the troubles, so actually 1RR does not apply to it, it concerns me that apparently experienced editors have made this simple mistake. This means that I have only possibly made one violation, the revert of which in question I actually justified under the reasoning of the editors who have reported me here, who claimed under certain circumstances reverts were allowed to continue, again possible I was too trusting of what seemed to be their experience. As far as I can see, I haven't actually possible performed more than one violation and if that is justification then at least one of the other editors involved in this dispute (namely: Scolaire) should be blocked too for providing me with my argument to preform the 'violation' and for actually provoking me to do it by delibretly stating they were going to ignore the fact we had all stopping 'edit warring' and were trying to talk. Shatter Resistance (talk) 13:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Slightly worried that User:Domer48 who applied for this application, may not consider discussion to be an important element of Wikipedia having seen the level of maturity used moments ago in reaction to what is actually begining to become quite an effect discussion with merely the line LMAO, ;), which seem to me that possibly this user isn't really very serious. Shatter Resistance (talk) 18:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Just discovered that part way through the discussion on the Irish general election, 1918 article Domer48 added the Troubles template to this article, depsire the fact the troubles is well establised as having taken place after WWII, Wikipedia's own page cites 1968, 50 years after the 1918 election. You can see here the page as it was part way through the discussion without the template and then the next comment by Domer48 here in which it has been added. I see no evidence that this article is part of the troubles and that instead it has been placed there in order to enforce Domer48's inaccurate claim it was subject to 1RR. I am going to remove the template from the page until proper evidence has been provided. Shatter Resistance (talk) 18:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

Comments by others on the request concerning Shatter Resistance

Shatter Resistance has also stated that I don't won't to keep on reverting but I will... and also that they intend get the page locked also stating "I will have the page locked to prevent further changes" Mo ainm~Talk 21:13, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

I have the impression that Shatter Resistance genuinely misunderstands WP policies, in particular 3RR and BRD, as evidenced by the edit summary here. Unless he previously edited under another username, he has only been a user for six weeks. However, he was given very explicit advice here, here and here, and chose to ignore it, so he has no complaint if he is sanctioned as a result. Scolaire (talk) 21:33, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

Result concerning Shatter Resistance

This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above.

• I recommend that User:Shatter Resistance be blocked for three days for the 1RR violation and warned of the possibility of Troubles probation per the terms of Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/The Troubles#Probation for disruptive editors. If probation is eventually imposed, it puts the editor under a 1RR/week limit on all Troubles articles. Shatter Resistance created their account on 19 May but due to their sophistication they must have been on Wikipedia before. EdJohnston (talk) 03:56, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
• I'm slow to assume that Shatter Resistance is a returned editor, and if he is not, EdJohnston's proposal strikes me as unduly harsh. I think we can simply explain what is and what is not a revert, and that one revert per 24 hours is allowed in the topic area. You are not entitled to a new revert just because you are reverting an entirely different part of the article. So, unless there's some proof to Ed Johnston's last sentence, I'm in favour of closing with a stern warning and no use of the block button. Courcelles

Cptnono

Nableezy and Cptnono are interaction-banned. They may not open complaints about each other at AE. Details within. EdJohnston (talk) 03:21, 5 July 2011 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Request concerning Cptnono User who is submitting this request for enforcement Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) at 19:28, 24 June 2011 (UTC) User against whom enforcement is requested Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) Sanction or remedy to be enforced WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it 06:48, 22 June 2011 Tendentious editing, hounding 05:32, 24 June 2011 Tendentious editing 05:43, 24 June 2011 Personal attack, accusation of socking without evidence 06:02, 24 June 2011 Personal attack. Here he admits he has no evidence for the accusation, but proceeds to repeat it 05:36, 24 June 2011 Personal attack. Diffs of notifications or of prior warnings against the conduct objected to (if required) Blocked by AGK for violations of NPA Enforcement action requested (block, topic ban or other sanction) Interaction ban, topic ban Additional comments by editor filing complaint Cptnono has repeatedly hounded my contributions to follow me to articles where he was not involved to revert my edits. There are numerous examples of this, and he has in the past admitted to doing so to "keep me in line". One such example is Golan Heights Wind Farm, where Cptnono performs, as his first and only edit to either the article or talk page, a revert of an edit by me shortly after I edit the page. This is exactly what happened at Dahiya doctrine. After I revert an IP who had tagged the article without cause, Cptnono follows me there and reverts me as his very first edit to either the article or talk page. When Cptnono is asked to, instead of immediately tagging the article, edit the article to correct any issues that he might see, he refuses to do so. He later re-reverts to place the tag once again on the article. He has yet to actually say what he would like to add, only saying that some unknown source is not used properly and that the article is "POV". This is tendentious editing, the purpose of which is to goad other editors in to an edit war over a tag. This is not simply my opinion of what happened, in this edit to a user's talk page he taunts other editors and dares them to revert him so that he can go to AE. In sum, Cptnono hounded my contributions to revert me, then said he was not interested in even attempting to address any POV issues that may be there, and then attempts to goad others in to reverting him. This series of edits shows that he is simply playing games here. Cptnono has also made repeated accusations against me about socking. He has not once produced a single thread of evidence to support such a serious charge, but he has repeated it multiple times on this very page. In the above diffs, Cptnono says that he does not have any evidence for the charge, but repeats it anyway. He has done this in the past, (example here and refusing to substantiate the accusation here). According to WP:NPA, accusations made without evidence are personal attacks. The policy says, in the section "What is considered to be a personal attack?", Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence. This is among the most serious accusations that an editor can make here, and repeatedly making it without providing any evidence at all, even admitting that there is no evidence at all, is highly inappropriate. This editor has repeatedly leveled serious charges against others without once providing evidence. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions to involve himself in disputes simply because I am already there. He has repeatedly reverted to restore tags to articles despite never even attempting to edit the article to address whatever issues he claims exist, and indeed has rebuffed requests that he do so. He has attempted to goad others into edit-warring, with the explicitly expressed objective of bring others "down with Nableezy" here at AE. These generally tendentious actions would not, by themselves, cause me to make this request. But combined, they demonstrate that Cptnono is editing with the purpose of annoying me and goading me in to doing something so that his years long campaign to have me banned succeeds. I realize that one-sided interaction bans are disliked by admins with good cause, and while I do not feel that I have done anything to merit any type of ban being placed on me with regard to Cptnono, if that is what it takes to have this never ending stream of asinine accusations and repeated tendentious hounding of my edits stop then so be it. Boris, Cptnono has done this multiple times. And as you wrote, I objected to the accusations above at the time they were made. If Biosketch wishes he can ask that Tarc stop making such accusations without providing evidence, and if Tarc persists he may then seek administrative relief from such unsubstantiated charges. I have repeatedly requested that Cptnono cease making accusations without providing any evidence, yet he persists. Additionally, the hounding by Cptnono has gone from a mere annoyance to disruption, as he is involving himself in articles where he either has no interest of editing or is literally too drunk to do so. If you would like to raise the issue of Tarc making such accusations you are free to do so in any number of venues. It is however completely irrelevant here. I am not Tarc, I am not responsible for him, and what he says does not in any way excuse Cptnono's repeated unsubstantiated and unfounded accusations. nableezy - 05:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Some of these comments below are simply unbelievable. Cptnono's every edit is scrutinized????? He has "enemies waiting in ambush to pounce"?????? Truly astonishing. As far as I know, not a single editor has ever hounded Cptnono, and not a single time has an unmerited enforcement request against him been filed. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions, not the other way around. He has repeatedly made malicious charges without ever providing a single bit of evidence for them, not the other way around. Many of the below comments do only one thing; that is they demonstrate that this page needs to do away with the comments by involved editors. Cptnono has repeatedly made serious accusations without ever providing evidence for them. He has repeatedly hounded my contributions and edited in a tendentious fashion when doing so. See his conduct in the diffs above at the Dahiya doctine article, accompanied by his drunken ranting at Sean.hoyland's talk page. I have held my tongue in giving anything resembling an honest critique of Cptnono, despite repeated provocations by him in which he has made blatantly dishonest accusations against me and edited with the sole purpose of annoying me. I await a response to the actual issues involved here from an uninvolved admin. nableezy - 05:50, 27 June 2011 (UTC) Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested Notified Discussion concerning Cptnono Statement by Cptnono If Nableezy wants me to stop commenting on him at AE he should stop getting himself in trouble. I do have a hard time interacting with Nableezy since he is the catalyst to so many problems. I just don't edit war with him and that is why I am still around while others are not. I try not to seek him out exclusively but he makes it pretty hard when I want the topic area to not be garbage (note the centralized discussion I started). If an interaction ban is the decision then I am cool with it. However, I don't think it is feasible. We edit too many of the same articles. I would prefer a limited interaction ban (basically a final warning) but I would also be OK with an interaction ban as long as it is lifted when he is topic banned again since all interaction is based in one topic area. When he is topic banned again I don;t think I should have any restrictions. No matter what, no interaction ban is appropriate without a waiver on Gaza War (it was getting a little less combative until he came back, BTW) since there is an ongoing discussion.Cptnono (talk) 07:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC) And I don;t need to comment on the sock thing. My comment was clear and he chose to take offence. Cptnono (talk) 07:48, 25 June 2011 (UTC) And my laptop does not have a breathalizer. At least I am only a jerk when drunk and not a POV pusher. Chucgging a handful right now, friends (see, I am honest about it :) ). Cptnono (talk) 07:51, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Hold on a second Biosketch: Don't let my love for the most drinkable garbage beer lead you to believe that I don't like a handful from a good microbrew at happy hour. I am from Seattle after all :) @Peter: I don't understand your questions exactly. So I will clarify my point:" I think Nableezy is only back for a short time since I assume he will continue to get himself in trouble. So basically I don;t want to have some weird interaction ban hanging over me based on the principle of it. If he is booted again I want to be in the clear so that there isn't some weird scarlet letter on me. And yes, Gaza War oddly enough since it is not feasible to have us both work on the article if e cannot talk to each other. But maybe this is why we should have ARBPIA3. I will be bounced for a bit for my history of incivility (the report above does not show that but a history will kill me) while a history of pushing a POV and edit warring will rip out the real trouble makers. I am a jerk but I don't cause the other issues that permeate the topic area. Overall, why is this AE still open. I do not deserve the time to be perfectly frank. Been here enough and know how it works. I do appreciate the comments since there is a good blend of constructive criticism and plain niceness. Cptnono (talk) 06:18, 27 June 2011 (UTC) I'm cool with it. The only thing I take issue with is AGK preaching about intoxication on my talk page (who are you to turn from a janitor to a preacher? How about I suggest you stop trying to play Judge Wapner at night?) and the mention of tit-for-tat (I had not filed a request here for a bit so it wasn't really tit-for-tat as it?) But at the end, it is a well worded interaction ban and 6 months seems like a reasonable amount of time to let things cool down. It is not my job anymore which is a relief. But ARBPIA3 is still something I would be interested in. A 6 month topic ban would be unfortunate for me but it if it helps clear out some of the issues then great.Cptnono (talk) 03:08, 29 June 2011 (UTC) Comments by others about the request concerning Cptnono I think an interaction ban would be a very good idea. I'm not sure Cptnono has crossed the line into topic ban territory, but he's dancing very close to it. And he would be wise not to edit while intoxicated. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 19:53, 24 June 2011 (UTC) There seems little point in sanctioning Cptnono. His comments here make it clear he will simply cheat the system in order to circumvent actions taken against him. Note the lines: "…Now how about a cycle my IP... If I ever get blocked for a longer amount of time I will certainly go for it…" Prunesqualer (talk) 22:30, 24 June 2011 (UTC) That's a good point, and anyway "having to be Cptnono" is probably a lot worse punishment than anything we can do here. Herostratus (talk) 15:19, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Personal attacks are rare in AE comments. Well done! Can we please have this request closed, before more people exercise their sense of humor? --ElComandanteChe (talk) 17:14, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Speaking of the system, I would have thought your topic ban kept you from commenting on an ARBPIA request. Or am I mixing you up with someone else? --JGGardiner (talk) 17:53, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Who are you referring to? I don't think that anyone commenting here is under a relevant topic ban. RolandR (talk) 18:37, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Prunesqualer is indefed from PI area. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 22:17, 26 June 2011 (UTC) I know some editors view interaction bans as punishments, while others welcome them, so I'd like to hear Cptnono's thoughts on an interaction ban with Nableezy before I comment further. ← George talk 00:25, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Having heard back from Cptnono, I'd say I support an interaction ban. While Nableezy and Cptnono may have opposing viewpoints, I think the real problem is what they have in common with each other: neither particularly cares for bullshit, but they both can keep up (and don't back down) if you bring it. I don't know if that's a character flaw or a commendable trait - possibly both - but when you line them up against each other it can get a bit ugly. Maybe give an interaction ban a shot and see if it helps calm the waters? I think it would be more constructive than throwing topic bans at otherwise productive contributors anyways (productivity being irrespective of whether or not you agree with their viewpoints). My two cents. ← George talk 23:11, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Agree with Malik Shabazz that at this point an interaction ban would be a good idea; Wikipedia is not a battleground, regardless of whether or not you've enjoyed a few too many chelas; if an interaction ban does not improve the situation, there may be a need for more draconian steps. -- nsaum75 !Dígame¡‎ 01:02, 25 June 2011 (UTC) I do not support accusations without evidence, but Cptnono's latest statements about Nableezy were made in the context of another editor making such allegations against Biosketch [5] [6]. Nableezy disagreed with these allegations [7]. However, omission of this context by Nableezy here is itself highly tendentious. - BorisG (talk) 04:45, 25 June 2011 (UTC) From Cptnono's post yesterday to Sean Hoyland's talk page: "no need to pretend anymore. you are in the topic area for on reason and one reason only. you flew under the radar and it was cute but don't pretend to be neutral. you are a funny guy who does make good edits but leave the vandalism fighting to those who actually care about the project and neutrality." I know how easy it is to feel frustrated and cynical with those who oppose one's usual POV in so controversial an area, but it's important to recognize the need for a break when that frustration exceeds easily manageable limits.  – OhioStandard (talk) 13:49, 25 June 2011 (UTC) I don't know who needs a break, but I recommend that Cptnono be reminded not to comment on users, only on edits. This may also be good advice to some other participants here. I am not referring to comments made here, of course, since this page is largely about editor conduct. - BorisG (talk) 18:21, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Cptnono chooses to edit in a very very difficult area (I can only every dip in and out) and I have always respected his editing. Maybe we all lose our way now and again but I would ask that you take it easy on him as I for one believe he is an asset to this project. BTW Cptnono we all need to take a break now and again. Bjmullan (talk) 21:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC) Nableezy = pot calling the kettle black. I.e. Nobody has any basis for seeking to sanction me on AE but I'll go out of my way with a weak case to get everyone else sanctioned. Yawn. Moveon.org. Plot Spoiler (talk) 17:10, 26 June 2011 (UTC) My thoughts exactly. And Herostratus (talk · contribs) makes a valid point: Cptnono (talk · contribs) wears uncomfortable shoes in the I/P topic area, and few of us would want or be able to walk in them for very long. His every edit is scrutinized with an electron microscope, and he has enemies waiting in ambush to pounce on his every uncrossed t or undotted i. He should probably keep booze and Wikipedia at least an hour apart, and it wouldn't hurt to switch from that Miller crap he drinks to some quality European brews.—Biosketch (talk) 03:47, 27 June 2011 (UTC) An undotted i might not seem like a big deal. But you have to remember that in WP you really have to go out of your way to do it. I think you'd have to screw around with the CSS actually. So when you see an I/P editor make a big effort to cause a small dustup it can be pretty upsetting. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:38, 27 June 2011 (UTC) On the other hand, I did say this during a recent Nableezy AE discussion so it is probably fair that I repeat it now: What do you do in Chinatown? As little as possible. --JGGardiner (talk) 07:48, 27 June 2011 (UTC) I have decent relations with both editors and think they have both made useful contributions. An interaction ban may be the best way to go. However, I have a couple of questions for Cptnono about the exceptions he proposes. If Nableezy gets blocked for being rude or for edit warring on one article, why does that suddenly mean that his edits elsewhere become so bad that your interaction ban shoudl be dropped. Surely if they were that poor someoen else is likely to want to revert them? Also why an exception for Gaza War? Surely where you both feel strongly is where you are most likely to clash.--Peter cohen (talk) 23:30, 26 June 2011 (UTC) Result concerning Cptnono This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the section above. As I have previously opined, I am concerned that we are so often seeing requests for enforcement that relate to the Arab-Israeli conflict. Specifically, the unceasing tit-for-tat enforcement requests and endless editing only of articles about P/I by most editors is worrying, and the situation is generally unsustainable. After much reflection, my view is that we must topic-ban the major contributors to this subject area irrespective of the seriousness of their own misconduct, because the alternative would be to refer the dispute to arbitration for ARBPIA 3 - where many would be topic-banned anyway. Some of these editors make constructive editors, but the aggregate of their contributions is that the P/I topic is a complete mess, and a topic ban must therefore be the lesser of two evils. To put my thinking into an image: if the primary editors of a contested topic area are youths in a town with high anti-social behaviour, then my suggestion is to instate a curfew of all 12-17 year olds, irrespective of whether they spend their nights spray-painting walls or diligently doing their homework. To employ the tactic of liberally topic-banning is crude, but would work as a last-ditch attempt to improve behaviour on P/I articles, and I invite comment from other uninvolved administrators on the matter. With regards to the specific request for enforcement, I concur that it has become counter-productive to permit Cptnono and Nableezy to interact. The following sanctions are passed, effective immediately, per WP:ARBPIA2#Discretionary sanctions: Cptnono banned from interacting with Nableezy for 6 months Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is prohibited for 6 months (until 27 December 2011) from interacting with Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), in accordance with the standard interaction ban detailed at Wikipedia:Banning policy#Interaction ban. Cptnono may not: Edit any page within Nableezy's user or user talk space; Reply to Nableezy in any discussion; Make reference to or comment on Nableezy, directly or indirectly, on any page; or Undo any edit by Nableezy to any page except his own user or user talk pages (by any means, including the rollback function). In accordance with this restriction, Cptnono may also not submit a request for arbitration enforcement that concerns Nableezy. Nableezy banned from interacting with Cptnono for 6 months Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) is prohibited for 6 months (until 27 December 2011) from interacting with Cptnono (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), in accordance with the standard interaction ban detailed at Wikipedia:Banning policy#Interaction ban. Nableezy may not: Edit any page within Cptnono's user or user talk space; Reply to Cptnono in any discussion; Make reference to or comment on Cptnono, directly or indirectly, on any page; or Undo any edit by Cptnono to any page except his own user or user talk pages (by any means, including the rollback function). In accordance with this restriction, Nableezy may also not submit a request for arbitration enforcement that concerns Cptnono. I will leave this request for enforcement open, to allow any comment on my preliminary remarks about avoiding ARBPIA3 by the more frequent use of extended topic-bans. AGK [•] 22:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC) I don't particular like how this is done, especially the #2 and #3 which also restricts possible RfAr that encloses more than these 2. I would prefer to make all subpages of RfAr (Not counting AE) excluded from the restriction (i.e. RfAr and cases are okay, AE is off-limits). - Penwhale | dance in the air and follow his steps 09:22, 28 June 2011 (UTC) This is the standard form of an interaction ban, as set down at WP:IBAN. I think it is a given that, if the dispute proceeds to arbitration, all bets are off and all discretionary sanctions are suspended; but to be clear, if these editors are later both named in a request for arbitration, they are exempted from this ban. AGK [•] 10:25, 28 June 2011 (UTC) I tend to think that it is better to pass the case to arbcom, which is in a much better position to do a comprehensive review over the entire topic area than individual AE admins. Barring that, I agree that liberal use of topic bans seems to be necessary to control the persistent disruption. T. Canens (talk) 08:39, 29 June 2011 (UTC) This request has been open for ten days and it is time to close it. The admins who have commented so far have converged on a common sanction and we might as well adopt it. I might go along with the idea of more liberal use of topic bans if the bans can be given in a principled way and people can see they are being applied uniformly. Cptnono and Nableezy are mutually restricted as described by AGK. Neither may open a WP:AE request about the other, but they may respond if someone else complains about their editing at AE. They are free to initiate proposals at WP:RFAR, WP:A/R/CL and WP:A/R/A. EdJohnston (talk) 03:17, 5 July 2011 (UTC)