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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by MiszaBot II (talk | contribs) at 08:42, 20 March 2011 (Archiving 4 thread(s) from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Poland.). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.
Archive 5Archive 6Archive 7Archive 8Archive 9Archive 10→Archive 15

Category:Immigration to Poland and Category:Immigrants to Poland

I just created those two new categories. Especially Category:Immigrants to Poland could use some population. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:10, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

Few tasks

There are still some articles I prefer to avoid, at least till this is resolved:

Please post here when you address those issues, or just strike them out. Thanks, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:26, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

checkY Done SeveroTC 21:44, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
checkY Content update in progress ==> Dmowski's Line - translated and added material. Need to write a short passage for Paris Peace Conference, 1919 to provide a suitable link to article. Ajh1492 (talk) 08:22, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
Thanks. Nice job expanding DL, with a little more content it could qualify for a DYK! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

AfD Nomination process

Could they make the AfD process more painful? Is there a tool out there to put the right bits in the right templates?Ajh1492 (talk) 11:08, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Give Twinkle a try, I find it makes deletion process much easier. SeveroTC 13:50, 23 January 2011 (UTC)
You can activate Twinkle by clicking a box in your Preferences, on the Gadgets page. Highly recommended! — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 18:34, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Category:Italy–Poland relations, Category:Poland–Spain relations - please help populate

I've just created Category:Italy–Poland relations and Category:Poland–Spain relations. Please help populate! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:29, 14 January 2011 (UTC)

Italy–Poland relations needs some checking and rewriting, eg. the Marigold legende.Xx236 (talk) 09:53, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
I see there is a discussion at Talk:Italy–Poland relations, probably a good idea to keep it there. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:42, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Poland - to be checked

Poland contains errors and unsourced POV statements. I don't know how to correct the GDP misinformation and I'm not able to rewrite the "Kitchen" section. Xx236 (talk) 07:59, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

If you were to list them, we could discuss them. What's wrong with GDP? If you tell us that and provide (updated?) sources, we (I) can fix the problem. There is no "Kitchen" section; do you mean the "Cuisine" section? I tagged it with the unreferenced-section. The sentence about French and Italian cuisines is a bit strange, could be removed if there are no objections... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:31, 22 January 2011 (UTC)
See Talk:PolandXx236 (talk) 09:30, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Replied there. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:41, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

The Holocaust in Poland

The article presents only "good Poles" POV. Several articles prefer "bad Poles" POV. It would be better to coordinate the articles.Xx236 (talk) 09:32, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

If you can provide more specific examples from that article and others (?), we could start a more detailed debate. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 16:51, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Well the real issue is the cottage industry sensationalizing the degree to which local Eastern European populations actively collaborated with the Nazis. In Latvia, for example, it was in the hundreds, yet an entire people are branded Nazis (per Liz Holtzman, hearing it from the proverbial horse's mouth). Responsible scholarship is that there were collaborators (on all sides), but that those collaborators neither defined nor represented the general state of relations between peoples.
Unfortunately, the meme that the peoples of Eastern Europe bludgeoned their Jewish neighbors to death with blunt objects, the blunter the better, then sat on their still-warm piled-up corpses to drink a few beers and sing is a Nazi manufacture; it's well documented that pictures of such "atrocities" were staged, based on accidentally including those orchestrating the scene in some of those pictures, and on reports not in the "official" archives. For some reason, however, people are inclined to believe anyone from Eastern Europe is fully capable of such unspeakably barbaric behavior, never questioning such allegations, while if you said an American, Frenchman, or even German did it, there would be howls of moral outrage. PЄTЄRS J VЄСRUМВА ►TALK 22:52, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Please compare Poland and History of the Jews in 20th-century Poland, they describe two totally different worlds.Xx236 (talk) 08:38, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, there is an obvious difference in scope between those articles. The latter one does need a lot of work, IIRC it was a fork... tag it with neutrality template and other applicable ones if you think it merits it. At some point we will get around to fixing them, although don't ask me when :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 01:03, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Curzon Line contains lies

The lord "found" that Wilno region didn't have a Polish majority.Xx236 (talk) 11:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

I am not seeing the word "found" in the article. If there are problems with it, please describe it in more detail. Note that for some periods and places, sources can be contradictory. If such a problem arises, citing one's sources (or requesting that somebody does so) is usually a good practice. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:25, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
But it contains "The line was based on Curzon's findings of ethnic composition - areas west of the line contained a Polish majority and areas to the east did not". Xx236 (talk) 08:43, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
Well, isn't it true? I mean, this does represents Curzon's argument, right? Note I am not saying it was correct, but IIRC this is what he argued... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 01:00, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
No it's not true. What was able a lord to "find" in Eastern Europe after WWI and Soviet Revolution living in London and using tsarist Russia statistics? Xx236 (talk) 10:39, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Probably not much; I haven't researched this issue much but from what recall his "findings" were politically motivated. The article should clearly state his soruces (or lack of it), and provide their critique; but at the same time it is true that he draw his line based on "something". Perhaps the word "observation" would be better, as Ajh suggests below. I suggest we use some referenced wording, and make sure that the quality of those findings/observations is clearly noted. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:40, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
How about just use the word "observations" instead of "findings" if you think the word is loaded contextually - based on Curzon's findings of ethnic composition changes to based on Curzon's observations of ethnic composition. I agree he was quite off-the-mark, but those where HIS observations - don't put your words in HIS mouth. Ajh1492 (talk) 11:30, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

A new/old Polenexpert

A German editor has an alternate name to "correct" and "explain" artcles as Curzon line, Expulsion of Germans after World War II and Oder-Neisse line.At first I assumed it's a new editor. Xx236 (talk) 12:15, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Are you saying it's an old editor? If so who? Volunteer Marek  17:00, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
Indeed. Being cryptic is amusing only up to a point. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:23, 24 January 2011 (UTC)
If I can find an information you can do it, too, in a shorter time than writing the sentence against me. Xx236 (talk) 08:20, 25 January 2011 (UTC)
As I have no idea what information I was supposed to be looking for, yes, I failed. Please be more informative next time; your threads so often require clarifications that editors may start ignoring them. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 01:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Noone is oblidged to like me.Xx236 (talk) 10:33, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
No, but it is you who come here for help, right? And we would like to help you, but that requires that you make your request clear. It's "please help us help you" kind of a situation. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:38, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Deletion of information regarding voting in Silesian Plebiscite

A German user has been deleting information why Katowice were attached to Poland(due to fact that majority of voters voted for Poland). I am afraid I don't know how to convince him not to engage in blanking, perhaps somebody else will be more persuasive [1] --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 19:48, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

It's just a reaction to your blind reverts of informations about the German minority in inter-war Poland in several Polish towns/ districts[2][3][4][5]. Please don't use different standards for informations you like and those you don't. I suggest to use such informations in both directions. HerkusMonte (talk) 19:58, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
Huh? You didn't enter information about town's populations. You entered information about counties German population into town's articles making them all look like being dominated by overwhelming German population, in fact a population dwarfing town's real figures for population. Please put proper demographic info into proper articles. It has nothing to do btw with voting information-again I urge you not to claim ethnic groups have specific voting preferences.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 20:17, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
I would hope no-one is deleting sourced information that they simply don't like - particularly if it's in reaction to someone else's deleting other sourced information that they don't like (that's a very poor excuse).--Kotniski (talk) 10:20, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree, you should not be deleting each other's sources passages. I took at look at the referenced passage in question from Katowice,[6] and I concur that the deletion is improper. The content is adequately sourced and is neutral in presentation. I then looked at the other four articles, [7][8][9][10], and I would suggest modifying the initial sentence to read

A large number of Germans left the area after the First World War (see Exodus of the German Population). This led to a significant decline of ethnic Germans, ...'


The referenced article section has more in-depth discussion of the context. I have no axe to grind in this argument, so that's my 2 cents on a solution. Ajh1492 (talk) 11:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Is a town's article the right place to mention information about the surrounding district? Yes or No? I would suggest "Yes", but if we follow Molobo's logic, we should do that without exceptions and different standards. HerkusMonte (talk) 11:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Nobody is going to delete the demographic information if it is in proper place. Right now Hercus is presenting the information on wide, far larger areas in articles about small towns and citeis in such way that it serves to present the number of Germans as dwarfing those who remained in the cities. He is free to add this information in Leszno County for example. Of course such information can't be given without context-mainly the previous raise of German population through Germanization measures in Prussian annexed Poland. Also I noticed that Herkus has been inserting unsourced claims that that those who left did so because they could become Polish citizens or were forced to leave-this is not in the source he gave which is just a table of data. In fact available sources(which I am in possession of) speak of other reasons for Germans leaving-for instance military and clerks went back to Germany(in some cases 20% of German population was made out of state officials, this was a policy of German Empire to Germanize the area), other rasons include nationalistic resenment against Poles and fear of reprisals after centuries of opression. Last but not least, the first to leave were members of colonists settled by Prussian Settlement Commission. So in conclusion-data about county demographics given in articles about counties, and with context(reversal of forced germanization)--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 14:08, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I congratulate HK on making right steps into good direction. However he asked to restrict the information to the interwar era, so we can't have 1910 data in areas which didn't exist then. A better solution would be to move the information into Germanization of Poles during Paritions article.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:22, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Is it really NPOV in entry Mława pogrom ?

I've suggested to remove the entry Mława pogrom instead of renaming it. The talk-page is here. --Robsuper (talk) 12:32, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

Oppose - PL:WP refers to it as Pogrom_mławski as do contemporary reports in Gazeta Wyborcza.
Ajh1492 (talk) 17:26, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Oppose. The event seems notable, and this is the most popular name. Perhaps adding a note explaining the definition of pogrom would help? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:33, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Connotation and meaning of the word pogrom is very, very bad. This term, particularly in conjunction with the name of the city where these events took place is a juicy morsel for the backgrounds of the ongoing, incomprehensible war to the knife with the Polish raison d'etat. Best regards. --Robsuper (talk) 14:33, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Unnecessary REDIRECT: Polska Roma

I believe that this page redirect is linguistically redundant, as it introduces unnecessary confusion around the name "Polska" on Wikipedia. The talk-page is here. --Robsuper (talk) 13:50, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

In Poland the terminology is Romowie. I've corrected the entry to reflect proper usage and provided an interwiki link. Submit a deletion request for the article.
Ajh1492 (talk) 17:19, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I've reverted your edit. 'Polska Roma' is commonly used in English, and this is the English language Wikipedia. RashersTierney (talk) 17:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
It does seem that this weird piece of Polgrish (?) is acceptable in English. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:35, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Possibly even Polskish? RashersTierney (talk) 22:17, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I've heard the term before and if I'm not mistaken the use of the word "Roma" in Polish, at least among people studying the subject, predates its usage in English. However, again, if I remember correctly, "Polska Roma" or "Polski Rom", refers/referred to a specific group of more general Roma even within Poland - again, going by memory, mostly those who arrived in 16th century, rather than later - hence they were the Rom that had been in Poland the longest (and to a significant degree "assimilated" or at least in relative terms). See also [11]. So I don't think it's Polskish.
BTW, the equivalent for Spanglish, would be Polpanish ;) (Like "chocho" or "ciocio" for "uncle") Volunteer Marek  22:24, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
Polska Roma are a subgroup of Polish Roma, they are not the name for the whole Roma population in Poland.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:31, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
's what I meant by "a specific group" within the more general Roma population in Poland. Volunteer Marek  22:46, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

See here for groups(in Polish): [12] --MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:34, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

My understanding is that you are correct, and this should be made clear where any ambiguity might arise. On the other matter, I hope my attempt at levity above hasn't caused any unintended offense. RashersTierney (talk) 22:44, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 Done See Talk:Polska Roma. It seems that the Polska Roma is the most sense. That's all. By the way, my wife's name is Roma, and of why I started this thread. This all happens by women. --Robsuper (talk) 13:32, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

It seems it is Polglish ([13]). I'll add it to my articles-to-do list, seems notable :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:39, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

My favorite piece of Polglish, reported in a British newspaper: "Let me animal to you" for "I'll tell you the truth". Volunteer Marek  20:26, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
BTW, now that I think about it I think Nihili Novi was working on something about this. Volunteer Marek  21:58, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Here Poglish. Volunteer Marek  21:59, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I thought we had an article on that. Which name is the most popular one? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:38, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Historical location maps for Poland needed

I've added a map to Battle of Grochowiska, but as you can see, it is the wrong map - modern. However, we only have three maps for Polish locations: modern, and two for interwar period (plus a bunch for voivodeships and such, see commons:Category:Location maps of Poland). We could use locator maps for Congress Poland, Duchy of Warsaw, and various stages of the PLC and Kingdom of Poland. Is there anybody who could work on those maps? Since they are just blanks, they should not be overly complex. PS. For the use of locator maps on en wiki, see for example Template:Location map Poland. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:28, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

The location map project just managed to create maps of all present countries (and is still busy to create regional location maps). I agree that it would be nice to have some location maps showing historical countries but first of all we haven't got enough mapmakers to do that medium term. And I am not sure that the reader of an article really knows where all that historical countries were. Then it would be senseless to have such a map. Until we have more maps you could write Location of the battle (map of modern Poland) so that the discrepance between 1863 and today's map is underlined and no one is irritated. NNW (talk) 19:21, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
A good temporary solution; I asked some mapmakers I know of to see if they can add those maps to their queues. I'll post here if I get any (positive) replies. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:36, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
I will look at it tomorrow.--Jacurek (talk) 07:39, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Notability of ethnic parishes in U.S.

I invite everyone to share your point of view on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Catholicism#Notability of Ethnic parishes in U.S.. --WlaKom (talk) 12:52, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Cleanup of a bunch of redirects on the 7th largest structure in Poland

Any comments at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2011 January 31#FM- and TV-mast Krynice would be appreciated. There are 5 spurious redirects that are either a misspelling (by me), some partial translations from Polish, or an odd name that isn't referenced anywhere. Thx! Ajh1492 (talk) 14:20, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Automatic tagging with project templates

I think a bot could help us a lot, see my comment here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:53, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Lesser Poland Province of the Polish Crown

I tend to look favorably upon creation of stubs with potential for growth, but just forking lists without adding any meaningful content is perhaps not helpful. I am speaking of the Lesser Poland Province of the Polish Crown, a notable subject, but currently just a list copied from Crown_of_the_Kingdom_of_Poland#Lesser_Poland_Province. Do you think we should redirect it back to the Crown article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:12, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

I would say so, unless someone's got a lot of specific information about that entity that they have immediate plans to add.--Kotniski (talk) 23:18, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

January Uprising navbox

Started one here Template:January Uprising. Very very incomplete - the purpose is to collect all the articles which already exist and which should exist (so feel free to add in missing redlinks) on the uprising. Battles, generals etc. already have some coverage so should be added. Coverage of the political developments on the other hand appears to be pretty sparse so articles need to be created though links to them should be added to the navbox even before that is done. Volunteer Marek  04:26, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd remove the battles, this is what battlebox is for. I am not that fond of those navboxes, categories do the job good enough, and bloated navboxes look... bloated. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 04:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
Problem is when you have several navboxes with each one addressing a separate aspect all stacked on top of each other - there seems to be a natural point in combining them. And I don't think the "bloated" thing matters much as long as you put the default on "hide". I realize some people insist on a separate battlebox - I've encountered this when working on Mexican Revolution topics - but it always seemed weird to me. And unfounded. Volunteer Marek  04:59, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
To a certain degree, I am sure battleboxes have become traditional and part of MoS, thus rendering the fight against them difficult. Personally, I like them, but if big navtemplates were invtented/introduced first, would I say the same thing? I am not sure, but again, I'll say I am not fond of navboxes. What to put in them is often arbitrary. I am not against them, I can see them being useful on occasion (convenient placement of links, breaking the monotony of the text flow) but they are not my favorite wiki invention. That said, this is just my mini rant, by all means, try to develop a useful usebox for the JU. I will see about translating and DYKing more articles; and if others would like to help, we could thing about getting the main JU article to a GA status. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 04:37, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Polish names

Hi, I need some help in sorting out Polish names in translated articles. Can someone help me with it? Here's a translation of an excerpt. What was the husband's surname, Mikorski? Or is that the woman's father's surname? What does the 'home' mean? "Ludmila Jeske-Choińska, home Mikorska, Theodore's wife" Pkeets (talk) 03:52, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Here's another: "From house Klementyna Grabowska Wyga - nowska, wife of joseph, owner Łukowa". He's Joseph Grabowski and she was Klementyna Wyganowska before they married? Or is it the other way around? What does the "owner Łukowa" mean? Pkeets (talk) 04:42, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Do you have the original Polish? In the first one, I takle "Mikorska" to be Ludmila's maiden surname (probably meaning that her father's surname would have been "Mikorski"). I can't parse the second one - as I say, if you provide the Polish text, we'll probably be able to sort it out.--Kotniski (talk) 09:59, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Here's the Polish. I'm trying to figure out who the women married. Is z domu their maiden names?
3 Klementyna Grabowska (1797-1883) — z domu Wyga- nowska, żona Józefa, właściciela Łukowa. Brała żywy udział w Komitecie Dam Wielkopolskich, niosącym pomoc powstańcom. Pomagała też później emigrantom, zwłaszcza pisarzom. ...
Jeske-Choińska Ludmiła, z domu Mikorska, ur. 1849, Małachowo k. Poznania, zm. 2 XI 1898, Warszawa, żona Teodora, kompozytorka i śpiewaczka; Pkeets (talk) 15:49, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Yes, "z domu X" (literally "from house X", i.e. "nee X") means that X was her maiden name. So the first one was born Klementyna Wyganowska, and married (presumably) Józef Grabowski (who owned the village(?) of Łuków or Lukowo), thus becoming Klementyna Grabowska. The second was born Ludmiła Mikorska, and presumably married composer and singer Teodor Jeske-Choiński.--Kotniski (talk) 16:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! That helps a lot. Pkeets (talk) 16:54, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

B-class review

I felt like reviewing Category:B-Class Poland-related articles. It is an easy task; I'll describe it here for your convenience so others can do it as well in the future. B-class requirements can be found on Wikipedia:WikiProject Poland/Assessment - just scroll down, and click show for more info where you see the B-class. Each article with WPPOLAND template that is of B-class or above should also have the following checklist (see for example Talk:Poland during the Jagiellon dynasty for how it exactly fits within the template wiki-syntax):

b2 = yes/no
b3 = yes/no
b4 = yes/no
b5 = yes/no
b6 = yes/no

If everything is yes, then the article is B-class. If not, it should be c-class (or lower). Simple, eh?

Anyway, here are the articles I felt should be downgraded.

All the others in the category has been also reviewed and I felt like they conform to B-class. On a final note, why should you care about B-class reviews? Well, articles that are truly B-class are very close to being GA, and GA is something we can be proud of as a project. In fact I plan on GA-nominating several articles from that category soon (there are two or so that seem to me need only a little push). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:24, 12 January 2011 (UTC)

There's also a number of articles tagged as class=B but showing up as C-Class because they don't have the checklist filled out. I wonder if it is possible to get a list of these somehow? SeveroTC 18:37, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Hmmm. Not sure about that, but reviewing ~450 articles in Category:C-Class Poland-related articles should be fun (and doable). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 18:41, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
At time of writing, 44 articles tagged by Biography project as B-Class which we have down as C-Class which will be worth a look (as the criteria for both projects are the same). I'm not so sure how to do find a list of articles marked as B-Class but without completed checklists though. SeveroTC 09:46, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
Interesting tool, but it doesn't appear it can do what I'd like, which is to give a list of all Poland-project articles with ratings different from some other projects. I do think we should review all C class articles, but to avoid duplicating one another's work, we should make a note on the article talk page (unless the article has been reviewed for B class by somebody else, milhist reviewers will also occasionally leave such comments, for example). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:16, 14 January 2011 (UTC)
I agree, so let's make a WikiProject Poland January 2011 B- and C-Class Re-assessment Drive. Perhaps it will be best to make a list of all the articles in question and for us all to cross them out when we have done them? Who else would like to help? SeveroTC 23:41, 15 January 2011 (UTC)
How about you propose this in a new section for better visibility? Most active participants should be awarded project's medal, of course. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:50, 16 January 2011 (UTC)
I will get round to this, just busy with some other stuff atm :) SeveroTC 12:17, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
I've volunteered for Bialystok & Podlaskie Voivodeship. Why do you consider Warsaw should be downgraded? Ajh1492 (talk) 19:20, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
I've posted a brief comment on that article's talk page. I can expand it into a proper review like I did for Białystok, if somebody shows interest. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 19:28, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
Podlaskie Voivodeship is second after Bialystok with updates. So your comments were more targeted towards GA than B? I do disagree on subsidiary pages, there's nothing wrong with having a good summary/overview paragraph then linking to a subsidiary article. Ajh1492 (talk) 00:41, 13 January 2011 (UTC)
Comments were for both. For B, I do allow less references and less comprehensive sections. Mind you, the overview paragraphs need to be good, and subarticles need to exist - for most sections I commented on, this is not the case. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 01:08, 13 January 2011 (UTC)

Are Nazi sources acceptable?

I find Nazi Germany texts inacceptable as sources to history of Poland.Xx236 (talk) 11:46, 4 February 2011 (UTC) At least the quote should be labelled "beware, Nazi Germany source".Xx236 (talk) 12:50, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Which article are you specifically referring to? Volunteer Marek  22:54, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
I have found a 1935 German source in Ethnic history of the Vilnius region, but the problem is more general, an editor uses old German sources describing history of Poland.Xx236 (talk) 11:45, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Yeah it seems you're right. I've removed the Nazi encyclopedia ones where I spotted them though someone should look through the editor's other edits. The use of older Prussian sources is problematic as well, but I don't have time to go through it right now. Go for it. Volunteer Marek  12:03, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Similar problem here[14]--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 17:41, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
If German authors, whose works, the translations of which are published by University of California Press, also qualify as Nazi sources, then sth really must be wrong. But not with that source. Miacek and his crime-fighting dog (woof!) 18:38, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Some works are reprinted as historical curiosities. Volunteer Marek  18:43, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Its the usual problem-the author was a nationalist who had different vision of authoritarian Germany than Hitler, so for some it makes him "reliable source", the article on him btw states "Ritter was a staunch German nationalist who belonged to a political movement generally known to historians as National conservatism.[28] Ritter identified with the idea of an authoritarian government in Germany that would make his country Europe's foremost power". I did mistake of using him, to which I apologize, as I was not aware of extent of his ideological zeal, and used only raw data, now I suggest to use more modern up to date resources.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 18:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
Some works could be acceptable, but when dealing with Nazi sources, the assumption is that such a source is unreliable and it should be proven otherwise before it is included. We still need an article on Nazi historiography (and a larger one on the German historiography - not that Polish historiography would be amiss, neither). See the article on Soviet historiography for comparison. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 20:37, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposal for renaming article List of Polish people

I suggest renaming this article. The existing name does not reflect the sense of the content set out there. Here is my proposal for a new name: Distinguished_personalities_(Poland). I strongly ask to speak in the discussion. --Robsuper (talk) 11:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Your proposed title, at least IMHO, implies that they are currently living in Poland. I think the article is trying to describe people for who were born in the geographical area that is/was in Poland. Ajh1492 (talk) 20:16, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Please remember about bottomposting. I never liked lists of xx people, as I think they are totally useless counterpart to categories. Any change to this one should be carried out to all other similar articles, and thus I'd suggest moving this discussion to a more relevant venue (although I am not sure what that would be). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:55, 7 February 2011 (UTC)
Hello debaters. Thanks for your response. I started this thread in "emergency mode" because when editing the article Poland ran into "flower" as is List of Polish people, hidden in piped link. I was unpleasantly surprised that Copernicus, Skłodowska, Pułaski, and other eminent persons, appear in the English-speaking Wikipedia under the most ordinary name "List of Polish people". I think it must be corrected and that is why I allowed myself the urgency to start this thread in the discussion. There is a tendency to write Wikipedia articles with the appearance of the list. I think we can not avoid the problems associated with this. We must decide whether at this point we will run out on, more or less known, the Poles in general, or whether it will be a place reserved exclusively for the eminent, distinguished personalities of Polish public life, in a truly encyclopedic style, as befits the Wikipedia. Such a declaration is necessary for me, so to avoid confusion and potential conflicts in the future. Personally I think, it should be carried out in this place the article on just the most important, the most prominent personalities whose lives and activities were greatly associated with Poland and the good of the country. Hence: scientists, writers, poets, painters and musicians, the largest theater actors and filmmakers, the most deserving politicians, soldiers and people from the circle of the clergy. If we accept this point of view, we must also choose, proper to the case, the name of this article. So that no one, whether it is reading or writing, had no doubt both as to substance and purpose of this article. By the way, I want to ask you to keep an eye on sections Famous People and Society in the article Poland. --Robsuper 14:20, 8 February 2011 (UTC)
The basic problem is that these kinds of lists exist on Wikipedia all over the place, like List of French people and they're fairly AfD or Move -proof. So usually the best course of action is to make the article less bad and catch stuff like that. Volunteer Marek  17:48, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

B-class review request (Józef Światło)

I think the article Józef Światło written by me a while ago is good enough for a B-class. Could somebody review it? I think the author should try not to review his/her own articles... --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 22:33, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

A couple comments . . .

What is a "special ballons"? It's in the Aftermath section
Need a reference on his defection in the Lede, you have it in the body.
"Światło wrote a memoir about his life." - you might want to provide a reference to the book.
Last paragraph of Aftermath - "theirs secret", I think you meant "their secrets"
Can you put in additional references into the middle paragraph of aftermath for the statements on false implication of Gomułka and Spychalski?

Just my 2 cents. Otherwise not a bad article. Probably a Low priority article. Would like to see reference to this article in the Polish October article. Ajh1492 (talk) 22:47, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Special balloons are not explained by the source, neither.
Moved a (ref) sentence from lead to main body, per WP:LEAD. Note that lead should be just a summary and a proper lead needs no references (because all facts are supposed to be properly referenced in the article proper).
Removed the memoirs mention, I couldn't verify it.
Their secrets - fixed.
I removed all unreferenced information, and added some more referenced content. I think the article is mid-priority, he was an important historical figure, with many articles and books dedicated to him. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:50, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

What is a "special ballons"? <== you spelled balloons with one "o". Ajh1492 (talk) 20:10, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Typo fixed. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 21:52, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

I ran the article through the peer review tool and placed the comments on the article's talk page. Ajh1492 (talk) 23:29, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, but I think most of the script comments are not relevant. I posted a reply on article's talk page. Thank you for taking time to review the article! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 04:53, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Ping, the article is still waiting for somebody to say yay (or nay); I've replied to the last comment on talk. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 17:32, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Promoted to B-Class (since I did the review already) Ajh1492 (talk) 23:50, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

B-class review request (Juliusz Słowacki)

Supporting our new tradition of B-class review requests, I'd like to request a review of Juliusz Słowacki, which I've just finished expanding with some online sources. In the near future I plan to use some offline sources to get it to at least GA-class. I'd also appreciate assistance from editors with good command of English to polish (pun intended) the prose :) PS. For the review, I'd like to suggest that it is posted on that article's talk page, with a short note here that somebody has started it. Of course, the more reviewers, the better. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 04:48, 12 February 2011 (UTC)

I'll work on the prose. Then maybe I'll do an assessment. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 05:59, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
I hope I improved the language. In a couple of places I left hidden notes, and I left a question in an edit summary. Tomorrow night I'll take a look at assessing it. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 08:01, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
Promoted to B class. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 02:57, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
Thanks! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| talk 23:55, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Possible error in the English version of the 'Ostrów Tumski, Poznań' page

Hello everyone,

I'm completely new here, so if I do something wrong, please forgive me and point me in the right direction.

I believe there is an error in a photo caption on the English version of the 'Ostrów Tumski, Poznań' page. At the bottom, the third picture from the left is captioned 'The Psaltery'.

I think this is a combination of a calque from the Polish 'psalteria' and a confusion arising from the fact that a 'psalter' is "a copy of the biblical Psalms, especially for liturgical use > (the psalter) the Book of Psalms" (the Concise Oxford English Dictionary.

Despite spending a considerable length of time researching this, I cannot find any evidence whatsoever that a psaltery is anything other than a musical instrument.

I think the caption should probably read 'The Psalmodists' House', since it originally housed the twelve people whose task it was to sing the psalms throughout the night (as per the Wikipedia 'Psalteria w Poznaniu' article and a number of other sources). This would give us 'psalmodists', psalmodist being the noun derived from 'psalmody', defined by the COED as the singing of psalms or similar sacred canticles. Webster's gives: "psalmody 1. the act, practice, or art of setting psalms to music. 2. psalms or hymns collectively. 3. the act, practice, or art of singing psalms. [...] —psalmodist, n."

Now, I have no idea how to edit the page - or even if I'm allowed to. I've just this minute joined, on account of this caption, in fact! So all I'm doing at the moment is opening the matter up for discussion. If anyone could guide me as to what else I should do, I'd be most grateful.

My thanks in advance.

Nereid11

Good point; I'll change it. (You're certainly allowed to edit the page - and you do it by clicking the "edit" tab at the top of the page, like you possibly did with this one, then finding the text in question and editing it in the normal way, finally click "Save page".)--Kotniski (talk) 08:30, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Thank you!

White Stork Synagogue

Hi, I was actually editing a page on White Stork when I noticed this page - White Stork Synagogue - I was looking into the naming to see if it can be related (and linked back) to the White Stork page. Pages in English relate the name back to a White Stork Inn on hte site before 1829. I was wondering whether any Polish pages had any further information (like did storks nest on it and is this why the inn got the name etc.) It would be good to link from a culture section on the White Stork page. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 13:12, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

I looked around for a bit but aside from the White Stork Inn which you already found I don't see anything else on where the name came from. As an aside, they have a very nice webpage [15] which might be worth including in the external links.Volunteer Marek (talk) 15:24, 17 February 2011 (UTC)
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