Wikipedia talk:Image use policy/Archive 7

Nude Pictures

Is there a policy? I think as long as they are not porn pictures we should be able to post them

• It has pretty much been decided that clinical-esque photos (such as those on penis and clitoris) are just at the edge of what is acceptable. →Raul654 03:15, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Eh? Decided where? Don't remember that at all. I don't think we have really visited the question at all. I think that the question would merely be of showing that there is a reasonable rationale for the image, and that it is suitable for the subject of the article. For example images of porn have been posted in articles, but mostly only from "classical" era or previous. This question has yet to be seriously tested. -- Cimon

• I think each picture would have to be discussed on its own merits, probably on the talk page of the article the image is added to. What are you proposing? Everybody will have their own boundaries of taste. For example, I'd readily accept a black and white nude photograph taken by a respected photographer if it was indicative of his work and we had permission to use it. However, I don't see that a picture of full, penetrative, amateur sex is going to add much to pornography. --bodnotbod 15:25, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

We allow people to link all sort of pov links both pro and con to certain people and topics why can we not allow people to post extral links to nude pix?

We do accept images of people without clothes -- Penny Rimbaud hasn't offended anyone for months. --Zigger 14:35, 2004 Jul 18 (UTC)

I would say that Penny Rimbaud is an example of appropriate use. From what I can tell, that photo is actually not unrepresentative of who he is and what he's about.

In contrast, I refer you to the history of Reese Witherspoon, where there are over a dozen attempts by (I believe) one user to link a nude screen cap of Reese in the one movie I know of where she actually did nudity. There are also over a dozen reverts by 7 or 8 different users. Did she do a nude scene? Yes. Is the image representative of her work? No.

The poster's rationale was "The human body is beautiful" as far as I can tell. (Now his rationale is probably "let's see how many times I can post this and annoy people" but that's a different question.) He's not contending that it's representative of her work or personality, just that it's a cute picture.

Would you argue that this is an acceptable place to put a nude photo? - Kenwarren 20:48, Jul 18, 2004 (UTC)

yes i think any picture of a nude person is acceptable place on wikipedia look at some of the articles we already have why not allow nude pix. How do we know it a he? I think it is representative of her personality I am sure Reese is probably naked everyday like most people are naked everyday.

I would say that including a link to that photo isn't really right, as it's nowhere near representative of her work. That said, images of a porn starlet should probably be hidden behind links, but available, as reflective of her work. Also, unlike Bodnotbod, I think pornography would be more NPOV with a better external links section and perhaps a few examples--again, hidden behind links. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 00:13, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I just don't see what the big deal of including nude pictures along as the person knew they were being taken of them and they are not pornographic. It doese not have to be the main picture or the only pix but really it is only the human body people also why do people automatically associate porn pictures with nudity?

Many people would be suprised and even offended to see nudity in articles unrelated to nudity. Why offend them just because we don't think it's a big deal? It's part of the Neutral Point of View -- we present the facts relating to an issue in a neutral way, without trying to win people over to any opinions we hold ourselves. It would be kind of like putting pictures of bacon in articles about Israel; to me, "it's just bacon", but to many people interested in Israel it would seem like an insult. It wouldn't add anything to the article and is likely to make people question the neutrality of the 'pedia. Lunkwill 18:27, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That is a good point about the bacon but So why do we allow links to pages that are "anti that person" that might offended a reader as well

I'm not proposing this is the right approach, but if the article is about bacon a picture of bacon is appropriate, so surely if an article were on a specific subject relating to porn then a picture of the subject could be portrayed, provided of copurse it were not illegal. There seems some logic in this and to suggest otherwise would surely be POV? In fact I cannot think of a reason that is not POV in some way. In interests of decency we may not wish to porray it in a similar fashion that a picture of "vomit" under an article of the same name name (I have not checked) but even this is POV. Hence, for better or worse, Wikipedia cannot ever be 100% NPOV in its approach. Just an intersting, if not useful, point :) Dainamo 22:46, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

• I would agree with this. In fact, since the image is marginally relevant in that case, I've left the link our anonymous editor added to the Twilight article. - Kenwarren 14:03, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Should we ban JPEG images?

Those who want to ban MP3 sound (Wikipedia talk:Sound) from wikipedia might be interested in the Forgent patent affecting JPEG images which is in today's news. [1] So far Sony has signed a license and an unnamed other company has paid US$15 million for one. After moving to ban the world's music format, should the world's photo format should be next? Japan and the US are the major countries which allow these patents. Should we instead refuse to deliver MP3 and JPEG content to viewers in Japan, to pressure users there to get their laws changed? That's the approach copyleft takes: make a large set of resources available, but only let you use them if you agree to the terms, so applying pressure to change your license. Jamesday 01:44, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I doubt the volume of users in Japan is enough to result in a law change. I would also hold off until a case goes to court and we have a finding - there is a lot of discussion about whether their patent can be enforced. --inks 02:24, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Japanese use is pretty high. US use is even higher (the US is the other country with software patents). However, I don't think we should ban any world standard format until there's a nearly universally used replacement. Jamesday 19:16, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The MP3 format is different, there is no JPEG alternative that i am aware of, this roally suchs though and i hope for a free image formats soon. -- var Arnfjr Bjarmason 03:35, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

Yes, the case is different. However, PNGs can be used for the same content as JPEGs, and are lossless. It's just a pity they result in larger file sizes. — Chameleon My page/My talk 03:57, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

PNG's are not comparable, they're a lossless compression format. -- var Arnfjr Bjarmason 04:56, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

PNGs are a replacement for GIFs, as they are truecolour and lossless. There is no widespread alternative for JPEG. Anrion 08:14, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is it about PNGs (or any other image file type, for that matter?) that makes them not an alternative for JPEGs? Lucky Wizard 02:09, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm putting it in very crude terms but JPEGs are based on "lossy" algorithms whose main intent are to represent the gradual shifts in color of a photo-realistic image. We don't care about the exact color of a specific pixel, we care that the whole photo be represent relatively correctly in a compressed manner. PNGs and GIFs on the other hand are exact -- each pixel must have a definite unalterable value. The bottom line in this is that PNGs and GIFs are efficient in representing images with a relatively small number of colors and definite borders between the colors. JPGs are efficient in representing photos with thousands and millions of gradual-shifting colors, but "flat" areas turn out crappy. Aris Katsaris 19:19, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

umm, this was not today's news - the article is from July 19, 2002. and if you read it up to the end you'll notice that the patent in question expires in 2006. regards, High on a tree 01:38, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think Forgent has a legal leg to stand on; I don't think their claims to the JPEG patent would hold up in a serious court case. Forgent is just a case of slime abusing the legal system. Samboy 01:13, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I do think that a fully open-source alternative to JPEGs should be found however. JPEGs are old, and their compression could be improved on. PNGs are not supposed to be replacements for JPEGs, but they can replace them for certain images. — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 20:06, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Is this photo fair use or public domain?

Hi, I'm want to use ofthis picture on Elmer Flick's page. My question is whether it is public domain or fair use. I think it is public domain because it was created/published in 1903, but on the 'Rights and Reproductions' page, it says its fair use. It seems like the 'Rights and Reproductions' page is just a general page they use for all images from the Chicago Historical Society. Are there any exceptions to the rule of things being published before 1923 are in the public domain? What are your opinions? Thanks for your help. Mattingly23 14:28, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• My opinion is that 1903 means little. The image was not put on the Web in 1903, so you're looking at a copy which someone made with a scanner or camera. (Whomever made the copy) owns the copyright (on that image) which happens to be (a copy of the old photo). (several phrases identified in preceding sentence to avoid pronoun trouble) We can't see the image because you provided a temporary link to loc.gov which no longer works. From your phrasing I imply that the (copy of the old photo) was probably created by the Chicago Historical Society. But asking them to use that loc.gov image might not work, as the Library of Congress might have their own copyright on the file that you're looking at -- or someone who adjusted colors and cropped it might have the copyright. Such complications is why the LOC.gov pages often tell you to contact their staff in order to deal with copyright questions. If you own and are holding the original 1903 image then the situation is much simpler, and this is the situation which is answered by most explanations about copyright and dates. (SEWilco 04:34, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC))
  • Here is the link to the copyright info about the pics I posted: [2]. It seems like they say there probably aren't any restrictions, but they don't want to guarantee it. - Mattingly23 17:12, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

policy on image text wrt pointers to email addresses?

What's the policy on images like Image:GlockenspielSousaphone.jpg where the photographer has provided a sample of a photo for use in the Wikipedia, and also provides the email address where other photos potentially can be acquired by private arrangements with the photographer? Isn't this a form of an advertisement?

Hmm, interesting question. Since the "ad" is on the image page itself, I'd say "No." But it is a form of advertising when/if the user clicks through to the full-size image. Looking at the text on the image page, it looks rather benign and harmless. I'd say it's fine, but I don't know if we want to encourage professional photographers to license us photos just to get more business. Actually, I guess it might be a Good Thing. This 'pedia desperately lacks good illustrations. Anyone else?

Also, next time sign your post. Do this with 3 or 4 tildes ~~~ or ~~~~. :-) — Frecklefoot | Talk 17:15, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

I'm all for it. Hey, free images, right? As long as it's GFDL, this is no worse than by-attribution licences, of which we use plenty. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 17:27, 2004 Aug 19 (UTC)

The Thumbnailing craze

To me, the 300 pixel size was a good idea for photos that seems to have gone by the board. It is an ideal size to add visual impact to an article, without overwhelming browsers or slow connections.

The glory of Wikipedia, I thought, was that, as a non "dead tree" publication, we could "waste" a few electrons, and make the articles really live. Our layout options are somewhat limited by the format, but good pictures can make some articles real gems.

But a bunch of people have, in my opinion, been running amuk, thumbnailing everything. Why!?

There is a place for thumbnails; I use them myself. But many articles that were greatly enhanced by an appropriate photo, are now degraded by unintelligible thumbnails that require an additional step, and the viewing of more info that often has no relevance to the article.

On a few occasions I have reverted thumbnails. I've been tempted far more times. I am aware that not all my photos are brilliant, and sometimes have just let it go, but I find my enthusiam to contribute photos is declining. Naturally I keep best track of my own photos, but I would think this to be true for other photographers as well.

I think Wikipedians should establish some guidelines. At least one full sized image that adds to an article should NOT be thumbnailed. And many images that "go to pieces" cannot be thumbnailed. Non-photographers need to be especially cautious about thumbnailing, as they may not have the "eye" for good photos or layout. Some thumbnailing should not be so bold, but should be done only by consensus.

At any rate, I toss these ideas out for discussion. How about some policy specifications? Pollinator 16:36, Aug 24, 2004 (UTC)

• Actually, you'll hate me then. When there's no need to resize an image, I like to use the "frame" option to add a frame and caption. It just looks so neat and tidy and pretty. zoney ▓█▒ talk 16:42, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• The main reason I use them is to avoid having to upload separate "large" and "small" versions. I can see why it would be a problem if the thumbnails were too small to be intelligible, but that's a bad choice of sizing and/or poor image design (too much complexity, too-small details, or other things that are lost in size-reduction), not a result of thumbnailing. Thumbnailing lets us have a greatly detailed, near print-quality image and, if the image is designed with thumbnailing in mind, a perfectly intelligible thumbnail-sized image all in one. It also gives article editors far more flexibility iin deciding what an appropriate image size is, rather than assuming that 300px is going to be okay for all situations. -- Wapcaplet 18:49, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• I use thumbnail, but with a 250px (or whatever) parameter ... seems the best of all worlds to me. I venture to suggest the problem is not marauding thumbnailers, but marauding thumbnailers unaware that you can define the image size, and with little eye for page composition. --Tagishsimon
• As a matter of aesthetics, some images should not be thumbnailed, especially diagrams and screenshots, especially ones that are already small (see older versions of The Legend of Zelda). In many cases, a specifically constructed smaller version, such as by cropping, shrinking, and sharpening, looks a lot better. This is common practice on many art webpages. In this case the smaller version's image page should link to the larger version. On the other hand, for many images simply shrinking them works fine and eliminates work for everyone. Should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. Derrick Coetzee 19:13, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• The struggle between least-common-denominator and good-looking goes on - I think eventually the sizing calculations will have to be under less manual control, for print purposes and the like - 300px is kind of wide for screens, distorts formatting around it, but would be too small for most printed works. So I don't spend a lot of time worrying about image sizes; more important to get them in there, so they're available to use (maybe not even in the article you anticipated), and also to discourage uploading of images with undesirable licenses. I think it's safe to say there will be several more rounds of image markup tinkering before it really stabilizes at something we all like, while properly-licensed images will become more valuable as the dubious ones get scrubbed out. Stan 19:26, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• Pollinator, can you give some examples of photos that have been treated badly by thumbnailing? I'm not sure I understand your criticism yet. Large pictures are important when they are the subject of the article (for example Mona Lisa needs a large picture), but when used as illustrations a large picture can take over the article, distort formatting, and leave little room for text (a good size for the Mona Lisa article would not be so good for the Leonardo da Vinci article, where it has to share the space with other illustrations). I see that you carefully size your pictures to fit the article context you have in mind; perhaps this is why you are unhappy when others resize them. You might do better to upload the biggest image you have, let the software scale it, and not worry too much that its not perfect. That's what I do. I know the thumbnail software isn't very good at the moment but it will get better — and when it gets better every big picture will benefit automatically. Think ahead to the hypothetical print version... Gdr 23:40, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)
  • Ah, I see that you don't want to upload the original image because you don't want to license it under the GFDL. But on the other hand you are annoyed when someone resizes your carefully prepared reduction. Maybe you just can't have it both ways? Gdr 23:40, 2004 Aug 24 (UTC)
    • Perhaps a concrete example would help. One of Pollinator's striking photographs (full frame) can be found at Windpump. Judge for yourself whether the page layout works, or whether some thumbnailing would help. -- Solipsist 08:14, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
      • Framed both images because I feel that they look better that way. Framing, I think, offers a good compromise between the desire to thumb/annotate and the desire to include an original image in its full glory. --[[User:Ardonik|Ardonik(talk)]] 02:54, Aug 31, 2004 (UTC)
    • Example: Niagara Falls was thumbnailed. I reverted that one.Pollinator 14:15, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
      • Is is acceptable like this? [3] Gdr 16:32, 2004 Aug 25 (UTC)
    • Yup, that one almost certainly better full frame. Have you tried the 'frame' option that Zoney was mentioning. It would help separate the image from the horizontal rule and gives a cleaner caption.... Hang on Gdr got there before I had finnished typing. -- Solipsist 16:34, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
      • The Niagra Falls one is a good size. Too much detail lost if that particular photo is smaller. But each of the photos in Windpump is larger than the article itself--almost as tall as a smaller screen--and there's no important detail to be seen. They could both be half as high/wide or even smaller and not affect the info they're conveying in the article. Elf | Talk 22:05, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
        • I think the first photo on the Windpump article is a good size. The second doesn't fit, though, but the best solution would be to add text until it does. Right now, before there's more text, there's really no good solution. anthony (see warning) 00:27, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
• As I've mentioned on the pump afew weeks ago, I think we should not give pixels for images unless there's a specific reason. Why? Because what looks great on my screen (in my browser) will look horrible in yours. I suggested a setting (small/medium/large) in the user settings, so everyone can set to see the thumbs accordingly. Of course, there will be always reasons to specify the size of an image exactly. I hope that these settings will be implemented one day. Kokiri 16:38, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
  • That's a good point; many times, a more fuzzy setting such as small/medium/large would be perfectly adequate. Though I'm a bit hazy - do you mean that instead of specifying "200px" in the image thumbnail, we'd say "small", etc.? That alone seems fairly pointless, since "small" is just going to translate into some predetermined number of pixels anyway. Having such an item as a user preference (i.e., "Image thumbnail quality: ()small ()medium ()large") might be handy, and could help with bandwidth issues too (modem users could stick with small thumbnails - though, this would also mean they'd more frequently need to view the full version, since a smaller thumbnail may not be clear enough) but it seems like extra work for already taxed servers; three differently-sized thumbnails would need to be generated for each image, for each sizing that is used in any article, and roughly tripling the disk usage for thumbnail images. The ability to specify pixel-widths in image syntax is of vital importance in many thumbnails; for instance, when I do a large, high-res diagram for some article, I choose the thumbnail size carefully so that most of the relevant detail is still visible - that there are still enough pixels to show the detail. If all I had to go on was "medium," that would be far less flexible. -- Wapcaplet 21:32, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• I admit that I have recently thumbnailed an image for the sole reason that I wanted to give it a caption and did not know about the frame option. Maybe somebody could point me to the description of the image tag syntax, and put this pointer at some easily found location. I'm sure I'm not the only one still wondering where this syntax is documented. Simon A. 15:56, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)

What format?

What format do I use for screenshots, and would it be a bad idea to use Paint to convert to that format? --Sgeo | Talk 13:19, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

PNG is the recommended format for screenshots, and it would not be a bad idea to use Paint if you have Windows XP. I don't believe earlier versions could save PNG files. Rhobite 13:28, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC) edit: please don't edit my comments Rhobite 17:20, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I think it depends on what the screenshot consists of. If it is something like a text editor, PNG would probably be the preferred format. But if it was a photorealistic screenshot from an FPS, JPG would probably be a better format (for its better compression of photographic images).

I don't think Paint supports PNG, but it'd probably work for JPG images. Personally, I prefere Paint Shop Pro, but that's just me. There are probably several free utilities available that convert image formats. — Frecklefoot | Talk 13:51, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

Paint does support .PNG in Windows XP. In any case, there are many graphic file converters out there. GIF is arguably okay. Whatever you do, do not use BMP! Derrick Coetzee 14:25, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I just uploaded Image:BabasChess.PNG which was converted with Paint on WinXP. --Sgeo | Talk 15:11, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

And I just recompressed it to knock a third off the file size. Ain't collaboration fun? -- Cyrius|✎ 15:23, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

And I just converted it to indexed color to knock another ~50% of the filesize off. PNGs can fairly often be indexed for big space savings. This is unfortunately something that pngcrush can't do at this time... -- Wapcaplet 22:58, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have noticed that some programs are less than ideal for compressing PNG. Maybe Windows XP paint doesn't compress it at all. Rhobite 17:16, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

pngcrush -brute oldfile.png newfile.png does a better job than anything else I can think of, image editor or otherwise. It's cross-platform, too. --Ardonik.talk() 17:27, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

pngcrush is awesome! I have a list of .pngs extracted from a recent database dump. I should have a bot go through and pngcrush all the ones that gain significantly from it. Potentially this could be done as part of the upload for new images. Derrick Coetzee 18:05, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons

What about images from Wikimedia Commons? --.:Ajvol:. 08:53, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(Since no one else has said this, and it's not clear on the article page) You automatically have access to Commons files. No special prefix is required. If you want to use an image foo.png on commons, all you need to put is Image:foo.png. But it will try to access a 'local' version of the file first - so if foo.png exists on en:, it will use that. I don't know if its possible to write something extra to force it to use the Commons file. pfctdayelise 01:38, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Renaming an image

I recently uploaded an image, and realized I’d given it a bad file name. This project page and Wikipedia:How to rename (move) a page both say there's no easy way to rename an image. So I uploaded the image with the correct file name, and left a request for speedy deletion on the first (incorrect file name) image. It's already deleted. Then I took another look at the image page and saw a move tab. When I went there, it looked like an easy way to rename an image. I didn’t use it, though. Gun shy.

What is the current preferred way to rename an image? If no one answers in a week, I’ll assume that uploading again, but with the correct file name, is out of date, and I’ll change the project page texts to reflect that. Rmeier 00:35, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

When I clicked on the move tab, and actually tried the Move Page, it didn't work. I received the following error message - “Error: could not submit form”. Therefore the correct method to rename an image is to upload the image with the correct file name, and leave a request for speedy deletion on the first (incorrect file name) image. I use the {{deletebecause|your reason here}} template. Rmeier 05:33, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Is this compatible with us?

Instead of trying to comprehend all of the various types of allowabilities for images and so on, I figured I'd simply ask here from time to time if a certain website's policies are compatible with ours, and what steps would need to be taken to utilize their images. So, my question today is: is the National Zoo's copyright statement compatible with Wikipedia/GFDL/CC? Can I upload their images? If so, what tag(s) should I use? - UtherSRG 02:36, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Affirmation that the copyright holder agrees

I'm trying to upload an image that is public domain (PD-USGov-DOT to be precise). The upload page insists I check a box "I affirm that the copyright holder of this file agrees to license it under the terms of the Wikipedia copyright." But I can't affirm that; by definition there is no copyright holder, and I probably can't go and ask a random person at the FAA for agreement to license it anyway. Should the checkbox be clarified along these lines: "I affirm that either this image is not subject to copyright or..."? Until this is resolved, I ain't uploading the image. David Brooks 20:11, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I just saw that the same question was asked (but not answered) at Wikipedia_talk:Uploading_images, which is admittedly the better place for it. David Brooks

forestryimages.org

There's a huge collection of tree and forestry photos at http://www.forestryimages.org/. Most are taken by private individuals and copyrighted, with (usually) a non-commercial licence note attached; fair enough.

However, some are marked as taken by United States Forest Service personnel - these photos carry the same non-commercial license restrictions on the page (typical example: this one). Yet surely as US Government photos, these are in the public domain and free of copyright? Can I ignore the stated restrictions as being incorrect, and use these USFS photos with the tag {{PD-USGov-USDA-FS}}? - thanks, MPF 19:02, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Anyone?? - MPF 00:07, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Commons

How should this page be updated to reflect Wikimedia Commons ([4])? Hyacinth 04:07, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Macromedia Fireworks

Macromedia Fireworks [10] (http://www.macromedia.com/fireworks/) A mildly popular imaging program, primarily used for creating animated gifs and static JPGs. Contains only basic editing tools.

Fireworks is far from "basic editing tools". It is atually best image software for making images for web. For photos, yes Photoshop may be a bit more suitable, but for rest ... Could somebody with better language skills correct this in article. Thank you --TarmoK 21:01, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

{{unknown}} -- remove from articles?

While checking on articles for Wikipedia:Press coverage and Wikipedia:Wikipedia as a press source, I came across this news article. They used Wikipedia not as a source of text, but as the source of the picture. I was excited, since I'd never seen Wikipedia used like this before, until I checked the image and its copyright status is unknown. I don't fully understand fair use, although I am fairly certain that this image is not public domain as the uploader originally asserted. I think we should be careful about using copyrighted photographs; as Wikipedia gets more popular, reusing photographs will probably occur more often. And copyright holders may start getting annoyed to find their photographs being reprinted in news stories and such. I don't normally follow the image discussions so I don't know what's in the works for {{unknown}} images, but just wanted to leave a heads up. — Knowledge Seeker দ 06:11, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's a shame I left out the information on that picture. I tend to rush through things like that. But just for the record, it's been fixed. It won't happen again (hopefully)! --ROY YOЯ 15:48, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

Please help

Knowledgable users, please lend a hand @ Talk:Arthur_Wellesley,_8th_Duke_of_Wellington. Thank you. ¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸¸,ø¤º°`°º¤ø,¸ 13:46, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

Old photographs?

Since there isn't a Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Photos) page, I am not sure where to ask this question: What should one do with old photographs that you are planning to upload to the Wikipedia? I've uploaded a few old photos from the Library of Congress. Unfortunately, like many of the pre-1923 public domain photos at the LOC, they were darkened and yellowed. Most of the photos I uploaded I have used "as is". For one of the photos, however, I cropped the image, and then converted the image to greyscale and lightened up the image, which I think gave a much better picture. I am wondering if there should be any sort of Wikipedia guidlines for this type of photo manipulation. BlankVerse ∅ 13:15, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Recommend PNGs for greyscale images?

Should it be mentioned in the article to recommend using greyscale PNGs for monochrome pictures (incl. black and white photos)? Or would JPEGs still be better for monochrome photos? --Zilog Jones 13:54, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Black and white versus colour doesn't really affect the JPEG vs PNG decision. Both formats have a greyscale mode of operation, and in greyscale they have the same respective advantages and disadvantages as in colour. It may be worth ensuring that the image has been saved in greyscale - I don't recall seeing the option on many JPEG exporting programs. --KJBracey 21:25, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

Portrait policy idea.

I have an idea for a policy using portrait images. I'm not sure if this has been discussed before or if there is already a page for it...

Some of my ideas are:

• When adding a portrait, find one that is simple and clear looking that shows the persons "features" easily. Isn't that what a portrait image supposed to be about?
• Don't upload a high-res pic for a simple portrait as it's unnecessary. Instead provide a link to a high resolution picture at their official web site or whereever a stable link is at. Unless the picture is rare.
• Don't needlessy change around someones portrait. I see this alot for famous musicians and singers. Just find an image you fans like that clearly shows the person and leave it alone.
• Keep it simple. No fancy photo editing that makes it hard to see the picture.

I got this idea from seeing people constantly changing famous musicians portrait images for no real reason. This really bugs me because the picture usually gets changed from an ok picture to an ugly one that doesn't show the persons face.

Any thoughts? --Arm 19:39, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I agree with most of these, except your point about high-res images. Images must be uploaded in as high a resolution as possible, because low-res pictures look bad in print. See Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Uploaded_image_size. arj 20:44, 10 September 2005 (UTC)

Photos of people in public places

What, if any, are the legal concerns regarding photos of people taken in public places without a model release (e.g. a photo of people in a rowboat in New York's Central Park)? -- Avocado 17:18, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Ditto. Are there guidelines about using non-famous people? e.g. I have pictures I want to use for sports, but they're amatuer players. What if they're not easily identifiable? pfctdayelise 01:42, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

This is actually a tough one. There are some countries with stupid privacy laws. I am not aware of any preexisting guidance on Wikipedia. I would suggest that you avoid pictures with identifiable people when at all possible, since that will probably provide sufficent protection. I think it's not a bad solution overall, since except in specific circumstances, I believe that it is generally distracting to have identifiable people in our illustrations when the people are not the subject, and overall such photographs look less perspective. ... A discouragement for photos of people where they are not needed will also be useful when someone decides to play wheres waldo and get a picture including him into every article on Wikipedia. ;) --Gmaxwell 05:48, 22 October 2005 (UTC)

Policy on large animations

See [5]. A 700 KiB animation was removed for being too large for dialup users. Is there any policy on this? I don't see why we should limit ourselves, but as a compromise, a static image could be created and leave a link to the animated version. Don't just delete it. — Omegatron 13:18, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

I've added something to the policy to that effect. Tweaking (eg. what is "very small") appreciated. See also #Animated GIFs above. ··gracefool |☺ 22:21, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Dear Image use policy,

Booo, you suck! Get off the stage. TIA! El_C 02:22, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Er, huh? Are you trying to make a WP:POINT, or what? In any case, I think the Image use policy is quite well written and useful. If you have any substantive suggestions, please speak up. JesseW, the juggling janitor 02:37, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

That's OiHA! (don't touch my seal of approval, my beloved Image policy!) Anyway, in answer to your question: the former. [W]ell written [possibly, I haven't —and will never— read it] and useful, I see you are sucking up to the hated Image use policy, which, in the long-run, is probably a wiser course than the one I've chosen (one which will likely bring about my untimely demise). Thanks! El_C 02:59, 27 September 2005 (UTC)

Images in templates using names assembled from pagenames

Some templates (for example {{DB Character}}) build image names from the page name. I think this is an extremely bad idea for a number of reasons.

• It causes problems with some article titles due to a long standing bug in the filename length checking.
• It encourages re-uploading of existing images which wastes space and makes things harder to maintain.
• It encourages short nondescriptive names.
• It encourages uploading a different image with the same name possiblly disrupting other articles that use the image.

Should we write something on this into the image use policy?

Pictures taken in museums

This question is about the usability of pictures I took myself of historical artifacts in a museum; if this is not the right place for my query, can somebody let me know where to take it? The museum in question had no policy against taking pictures, and the images are of historical artifacts (specifically, old scientific equipment) and not of art or specially-designed exhibit displays. Can I post and use the pictures I took on wikipedia? Thanks, -- SCZenz 23:15, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

AFAIK, and IANAL, such pictures would be just fine, and very much appreciated. Of course, you would state on each image description page "This photo was taken by me, SCZenz, on >date when you took the photo>, in >name of museum>. {{PD-user|SCZenz}}". Thanks in advance for the pictures! JesseW, the juggling janitor 00:13, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

Photos of Silent Film Actors

I posted about this on the Silent Film Talk Board, but I thought this might be a better place to ask: I'm pretty new here, but I'm hoping to spruce up some of the silent film actors' articles, particularly with photos. After looking at all the copyright image guidelines, however, I'm pretty much too scared to do anything. I certainly don't have any physical photographs at home, but the internet is teeming with pre-1922 photos of somewhat forgotten stars. I found the Library of Congress site both difficult to navigate and somewhat devoid of photos of stars lesser known today. Does anyone know of a reliable repository of old silent photographs, or are any pre-1922 photos good to go if I tinker with them in Photoshop long enough? Or am I better off just e-mailing a lot of websites asking for permission (although most Silent Movie fans want to spread the word about their forgotten genre and probably don't mine sharing, some are very protective about their personal collections). Wencer 02:53, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Removal of lines from image use policy

Asking people to consider the appropriateness and necessity of the images they include isn't the same as saying that we practice censorship. Was this edit discussed anywhere? -- SCZenz 18:59, 15 October 2005 (UTC)

As far as I can tell it wasn't. I've added the text back, although I've trimmed it a bit... because the link-vs-inline isn't something there is consensus about. As far as I can tell the shockingness of an image an editoral consideration, and that all other things equal we prefer to use less shocking images where we can. The text has be long standing in one form or another, ... it used to say 'offensive', but I changed it (a month ago?), as 'shocking' is more general and more related to our goal (high quality vs censored and 'kid safe') --Gmaxwell 21:41, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Cool. It looked like a bizzare edit to me, but I hadn't been keeping track of this long enough to know for sure. -- SCZenz 21:51, 18 October 2005 (UTC)